Recognized exploits

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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EwaldvonKleist
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RE: Recognized exploits

Post by EwaldvonKleist »

]ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Also I do get concerned sometimes the term ahistorical is used to mean just not how they see the game. A recent case was my use of a lot of reconnaissance to keep opponent air forces fatigued. This was termed "recon spamming" to say it was using the game mechanics. Or more specifically the game mechanics not duplicating real life, as using the historical game mechanics is unavoidable! But there are many historical parallels during the war where air commanders did use repeat air missions to areas lightly covered by an enemy air force (Malta and North France in 1942) not to cause any action but, to quote one air commander of the time, "to keep them on their toes and their nerves on edge." So to me this is perfectly historical even if others do not agree. In a ground combat context this is called "soaking attacks" - which again has historical parallels.

1. The Axis had no fuel/truck capacity to spare for recon spam flights.
2. They did not have the recon excess they have ingame. "The German Empire and the Second World War Vol. 4 (Das deutsche Reich und der zweite Weltkrieg) states that the Axis had recon shortages later in 1941, and gives this as one of the reasons why the Soviet buildup for the winter attack hasn't been detected.
3. Axis recon losses are way too low given the fact you fly them over Soviet fighter airfields. The 200mph recon planes (which are IMO a bit mistreated in the game, they were more transport planes for staff and sometimes a general used them to get an image of the frontline. But no deep recon flights AFAIK) should suffer much higher losses even from old soviet fighters.

I am fully fine if you use that in any game I am involved in, but IMO the tactic uses the failure of the game engine to simulate the historical trade offs.
Personally I do not object to others using features like these. You can agree house rules on them if you wish or even be nice and ask your opponent in advance if they object. But I do post on them and they often then get removed from the game in the next version. So perhaps the real definition of gamey or exploit should be what gets removed by the next version of the game?

I think we have some lawyers here? They should form a court where people can send in their tactics and they decide if they are allowed. Of course, they incumbent the pledge of secrecy, so everyone can keep his little secret tactics..
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Telemecus
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RE: Recognized exploits

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
]ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Also I do get concerned sometimes the term ahistorical is used to mean just not how they see the game. A recent case was my use of a lot of reconnaissance to keep opponent air forces fatigued. This was termed "recon spamming" to say it was using the game mechanics. Or more specifically the game mechanics not duplicating real life, as using the historical game mechanics is unavoidable! But there are many historical parallels during the war where air commanders did use repeat air missions to areas lightly covered by an enemy air force (Malta and North France in 1942) not to cause any action but, to quote one air commander of the time, "to keep them on their toes and their nerves on edge." So to me this is perfectly historical even if others do not agree. In a ground combat context this is called "soaking attacks" - which again has historical parallels.

1. The Axis had no fuel/truck capacity to spare for recon spam flights.
2. They did not have the recon excess they have ingame. "The German Empire and the Second World War Vol. 4 (Das deutsche Reich und der zweite Weltkrieg) states that the Axis had recon shortages later in 1941, and gives this as one of the reasons why the Soviet buildup for the winter attack hasn't been detected.
3. Axis recon losses are way too low given the fact you fly them over Soviet fighter airfields. The 200mph recon planes (which are IMO a bit mistreated in the game, they were more transport planes for staff and sometimes a general used them to get an image of the frontline. But no deep recon flights AFAIK) should suffer much higher losses even from old soviet fighters.

I am fully fine if you use that in any game I am involved in, but IMO the tactic uses the failure of the game engine to simulate the historical trade offs.

These are all good points although I would say they are not saying recon spamming is gamey but the logsitics, OOBs and combat resolutions are wrong. So it could be as a consequence only you agree to restrict large volumes of recon.

(I would partially disagree with 1 as, at least in my case, I do not use the large heavy recon for this but the Fi156c Storks. In the game they only use one ton of fuel flying 100% of their miles and having stood next to one in real life it does have the feeling of being light enough to be powered by a bicycle. Interestingly the numbers of these have since been reduced in later versions).
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heliodorus04
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RE: Recognized exploits

Post by heliodorus04 »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

I quit playing humans whom I did not know and trust a LONG LONG time ago.
Americans especially (among whom I am counted) are notorious for winning justifying all and any means.
Human beings can justify anything; for example I own an SS cap...

Layman terms pleaseon exactly your point here.

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56ajax
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RE: Recognized exploits

Post by 56ajax »

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

I quit playing humans whom I did not know and trust a LONG LONG time ago.
Americans especially (among whom I am counted) are notorious for winning justifying all and any means.
Human beings can justify anything; for example I own an SS cap...
I can think of a number of reasonable justifications for owning an SS cap...one being you collect military head gear. That it is a symbol of evil and terror, I don't doubt, but to some so is a Tiger Tank or a Lancaster Bomber.

I suppose it comes down to the purpose or reason for owning the cap...
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