amphib

[James Taylor]

If you use Denmark as a base then you can reach Narvik in one turn.

There are ways to make it less risky but every move has a potential consequence.

[AlbertN]

Given maybe the latest patch helps to a degree if the static infantry cannot invade anymore. But up to previous patch...

Point is in general the RN can even establish a rotation of ships to intercept a Narvik invasion force - and as naval combat is, it may be hard for the RN to get hard pressed to not have enough squadrons to cover that and any other need.

[battlevonwar]

I can definitely see how risky this invasion is. Anything as complex as landing a unit off on a distant near Artic Port seems dangerous to me. It cost the Germans a bit of Ships to hit Norway. I'm certain you can use 1 DD to scout the pathway or a few or Subs and risk the loss? I would have to trial the attempt. Meanwhile how many Garrisons are the Brits going to put up there, keep there? Where will they be short if they do that? Maybe focus there instead? Egypt/Sea Lion/Rest of Europe?

[Meteor2]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

On invasions. A player should need to plan an invasion in advance. It's the ability to just invade adhoc that is gamey and very unrealistic.

I think, this is an model for Alvaro to think about.
To prepare landings and invasions you need time, ressources, troops, ships, etc..
Why not define the target and the departure locations in advance.
Then, depending on the scale of the task, one had to wait some time to allow the
preperation. Should landing boats be assigned to fleets and not be part of the pool?
In the Pacific, that would hinder ad-hoc invasions or changing destinations during the operation.

Only a thought. Maybe that was meant by Michael T...

[James Taylor]

Plan for an invasion? Let's see, I need the proper amount of landing craft, built over time. I must get the invading troops to a seaport and let them gather their naval and air supporting cast.

Finally, I need to coordinate the naval/invasion move to land on a properly designated beach, all the while maintaining enough oil and follow on assets to make the invasion a success.

Does this sound like "planning"?[8|]

[AlvaroSousa]

You like historical. I gave you a historical Norway situation. For the Germans it was equally as challenging. You can't get a more interesting Norway Campaign than WarPlan.

No scripted boo hoo we feel sorry for the Germans because it's hard to invade Norway so we give it to them here. You gotta EARN IT in WarPlan like a real general!!!!!

[AlbertN]

The potential main concern on 'planning invasions' is that fleets and airplanes that are meant to defend a zone can be easily 'baited'.

Plane in standby ready? Send in random Patrol squadron to exhaust the 2 action point of the plane, and then invade freely at 0 risk!

[Michael T]

I am pretty sure, at least from my reading about the subject, that it took much much longer than 2 weeks to pull an amphibious invasion together from the *decision point* to invade a certain location. And if that plan was tossed out and another location decided upon then the whole process began anew. In real wars it takes months and months. And in the the real war how many Amphibious invasions actually occurred? Far far fewer than we see in WarPlan. They tend to be very opportunistic in WarPlan, and numerous.

[AlbertN]

That can be fine tuned through cost of AMPHs, or with adding requirement in the Para-Style of 100% Efficiency eventually Michael.
The first can be modded, the later can be coded I feel.

Not sure how broken presently it is though

[Meteor2]

If somebody is interessted in details of "Operation Weserübung", I recommend the book "Weserübung" from Hans-Martin Ottmer (Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt).

Some staff work began in Jan. 40, but the main task Force began its work on 25. Feb..
So, a time period of 8 week was spend on the preparation, at minimum.

And, as and extract from the book:
- The operation was initiated by Admiral Raeder, not Hitler.
- Main reasons were, based on experiences from the Great War, strategic ones.
Secure bases for maritim operations in the Atlantic and mostly the fear of blockade operations from the RN
against the flow of resource for the German industry.
- The British and the French had very similar thoughts and the German operation was only one day earlier than a
similar British one.

Back to topic. Alvaro should maybe consider a modified model for amphib operations in the Pacific, where
some kind of pre-planing is involved.

[battlevonwar]

If not mentioned:

Maybe a big issue too with amphibious landings is you can unload transports into that port the same turn you invade and take it. I am going to see how a human opponent copes. Which I am doing now to be a fair judge.

[aspqrz02]

I suspect that one way of doing this would be to increase the build time for 'phibs, probably the build cost as well (preferably only for the Germans) and give the Germans exactly *none* to start with ... so that, if the Germans start in September 39 they can have them ready for February 1940 ... if they want to build more than a division's (or Corps) worth they'll have to make hard decisions about what NOT to build that would allow that.

Phil McGregor

[AlvaroSousa]

They should have garrisons in ports. If you leave a port wide open and no one around why wouldn't an invading force simply dump everything in there easily.

[AlbertN]

I believe it's not about leaving a port open but about landing closeby a port, dislodging its defenders and then cram in all units in the port straight off the bat.
If a port is already occupied, you can 'deploy' the unit debarking 1 hex away so pratically it branches out how many units can debark off a port.

I am not sure if an ability to lower power levels on capture (like defenders blowing up facilities, etc as they retreat) is scriptable.

[battlevonwar]

It could be deadly. We will have to see in Multiplayer(it does work for both sides) I am not sure how much 1 Nation could unload in the right port. This would be hardcore on the Axis and Allies. You would have to garrison around the ports to lock up this ability. During a Sea Lion, D-Day or sneaky invasion you could see potentially an HQ, Corp, Corp, Tank, Tank, Mech-dropped in port same turn if there are enough bordering hexes to fit them all?

Rail capacity allows say Germany/UK to a 'limited amount of reactionary forces' probably smaller than this that can be transported in the unexpected location. Why would a player do any other type of amphibious move other than port snatching save on the Amphibs? In history ports get smooshed by luck/the situation after an invasion?

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

I believe it's not about leaving a port open but about landing closeby a port, dislodging its defenders and then cram in all units in the port straight off the bat.
If a port is already occupied, you can 'deploy' the unit debarking 1 hex away so pratically it branches out how many units can debark off a port.

I am not sure if an ability to lower power levels on capture (like defenders blowing up facilities, etc as they retreat) is scriptable.

[Journier]

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

It could be deadly. We will have to see in Multiplayer(it does work for both sides) I am not sure how much 1 Nation could unload in the right port. This would be hardcore on the Axis and Allies. You would have to garrison around the ports to lock up this ability. During a Sea Lion, D-Day or sneaky invasion you could see potentially an HQ, Corp, Corp, Tank, Tank, Mech-dropped in port same turn if there are enough bordering hexes to fit them all?

Rail capacity allows say Germany/UK to a 'limited amount of reactionary forces' probably smaller than this that can be transported in the unexpected location. Why would a player do any other type of amphibious move other than port snatching save on the Amphibs? In history ports get smooshed by luck/the situation after an invasion?

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

I believe it's not about leaving a port open but about landing closeby a port, dislodging its defenders and then cram in all units in the port straight off the bat.
If a port is already occupied, you can 'deploy' the unit debarking 1 hex away so pratically it branches out how many units can debark off a port.

I am not sure if an ability to lower power levels on capture (like defenders blowing up facilities, etc as they retreat) is scriptable.

its brutal for both players, if the axis land 4 tank divisions and can get another large port, but if you arent careful as axis, all your ports get blockaded then its a race against time to catch another one port for supply again.