Is There A Future For TOAW?

pz501 · Post by **pz501** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:18 pm

I wonder what ever became of Norm Koger? Last I knew some years back he was doing the Distant Guns/Jutland series with I think Jim Rose, but that's a pretty much dead issue now, that didn't end well.

He seems to have disappeared (maybe moved on and got out of entertainment programing?) but I hope he's still with us and doing OK.

As far as TOAW itself is concerned, while some have given a really huge and valiant effort to keep it going, I'll bet the source code is pretty convoluted after all these years. It might be better to start with a clean sheet of paper and design a brand new product that retains the spirit and concept of TOAW.

Something like this with more development and encouragement might work, but then I'm no expert: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1466 ... ns_Series/

altipueri · Post by **altipueri** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:58 pm

It's 9pm UK; I have drunk half a bottle of wine; and as I read this sitting on the sofa I realize I am using my TOAW 4 manual as a mouse mat.

Is this a good sign ?

Lobster · Post by **Lobster** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:46 pm

ORIGINAL: altipueri

It's 9pm UK; I have drunk half a bottle of wine; and as I read this sitting on the sofa I realize I am using my TOAW 4 manual as a mouse mat.

Is this a good sign ?

It means stop spending so much on wine and get a lap desk that will accommodate a real mouse pad instead. [:D]

Karri · Post by **Karri** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:12 pm

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We'd very much like to do more with it, but the road on this project has been unusually bumpy. I hope we'll be able to do more in the future, it's not a game we'd like to see retired.

I tried getting back to it, as it is one of my favourites, but it's just too aged. What are the chances of OPART V? It needs considerable interface updates/redsign. Not to mention that if somesort of industry model (copy from WitE 2 please) is added that would really take it to the next level.

Bamilus · Post by **Bamilus** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:37 am

It's dead and time to move on. It had a good run.

76mm · Post by **76mm** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:53 pm

ORIGINAL: Bamilus
It's dead and time to move on. It had a good run.

The problem is--move on to what? Nothing else quite like it out there.

Lobster · Post by **Lobster** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:14 pm

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Bamilus
It's dead and time to move on. It had a good run.
The problem is--move on to what? Nothing else quite like it out there.

Ditto. Would be a bloody shame to lose it.

Bamilus · Post by **Bamilus** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:38 pm

It's basically a digital board-game. Just move onto board games. Losing the editor sucks, though, I agree. But a lot of the scenarios are based off of board games, anyways.

I mainly play board wargames now and it's great.

gamer78 · Post by **gamer78** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:50 pm

I don't remember TOAW'4 has solid naval game, so uncheck naval game. I remember "Fire in the East" or Directive'21 as most popular scenarios recently. GG War in The East&West has those somehow covered anything about WW'2. I remember playing Brusilov Offensive whether it was in TOAW'3 or 4. Anyway TOAW series as mainly a WW'2 game at most in recent. I don't know the quality of these scenarios whether it needs news designers or about engine bugs, for a new player it was a mess honestly. "Hades" as rogue-like game hit the nail about clear design something more dynamic about history telling wargaming needs.

Erik Rutins · Post by **Erik Rutins** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:13 pm

TOAW is really much more than a digital board game. I love board games and board wargames, but I don't see them as able to replace computer wargames, or vice versa.

gamer78 · Post by **gamer78** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:54 pm

The point is clear sir. May I ask any chance we will be able to see wargames not restricted to the WW'2 ERA or mainly not going about usual market people would like? Any companies in the radar like AGEOD did in the past as an example..

76mm · Post by **76mm** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:15 pm

ORIGINAL: Bamilus
It's basically a digital board-game. Just move onto board games. Losing the editor sucks, though, I agree.

Not interested--at all--in moving into board games. Besides losing the editor, which is critical for me, you lose the AI such as it is, FoW, etc. Never going back to board games.

Lobster · Post by **Lobster** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:47 pm

But it does cover more than WW2. What makes you think it doesn't?

Curtis Lemay · Post by **Curtis Lemay** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:18 pm

Digital wargames have a sophistication in unit construction and combat resolution that no board wargame can possibly approach. To even attempt a fraction of what the computer can do, board wargames would burden their players with such bookkeeping and calculation tasks as to make them unplayable.

Digital wargames have left board wargames in the dust long ago. I have shelves of board wargames in my home. But they only come off those shelves when I need to use them as info resources for a digital wargame design.

gamer78 · Post by **gamer78** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:41 pm

ORIGINAL: Lobster

But it does cover more than WW2. What makes you think it doesn't?

I can be wrong about community overall past experience about TOAW or about which scenario is more popular. Lately I've played CW scenarios and a Napoleonic one. But I think WW'2 ones like in Directive'21 or Fire in the East is older scenarious and maybe be the most ambitious ones. Could be a bit more popular, or very popular. What I mean was in 2021 WW'2 still popular.

Rosseau · Post by **Rosseau** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:51 pm

After a long hiatus, fired up TOAW IV and the latest Eastern Front 1941-1945.v6 scenario. Yes, WitE2 is glorious and all, but this scenario snapped off like clockwork. So for me, there is certainly a future for TOAW IV in the years I have left.

For wargamers who, for some odd reason, don't yet have the game, it comes highly recommended. Especially for those who like a bit of old-school, board game feel, this one will remain a classic for many years, imho. Our friend Curtis LeMay hits the nail right on the head, with his comments above.

Not to mention the hundreds of custom scenarios available for the game. I don't think Matrix has another title with so many awesome works by fans of the game. I downloaded all mine years ago, but if you are new, someone will certainly post a link here for you to get started.

Best wishes to all.

gamer78 · Post by **gamer78** » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:53 pm

I think TOAW has some vibes of nationalist feel from the older generation also. [;)] What do you think about new designers about Vic's Advanced Tactic as maybe a new TOAW? Main programmer is still here.

demyansk · Post by **demyansk** » Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:11 pm

Guys, is war in the east 2 a big improvement over the first version?

sPzAbt653 · Post by **sPzAbt653** » Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:14 pm

Generally - The Advanced Tactics Series is not an historical simulation, it is a random battle generator, but has a 'full' editor so that specific campaigns can be designed, but uses generic units [ie Flak I, Flak II].

Can anyone secure the V4V Series so that we can start working with it? [;)]

Is There A Future For TOAW?

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