UV - Med??

[sven6345789]

hopefully me neither. And I just started.

[ColFrost]

Back to UV Med.

Do they plan to increase the intricacy of ground combat? That would be one way to differentiate it between UV.

[mbatch729]

I think Matrix has had to do some rework/tweaking of the land combat routines for WiTP. It would only be natural, IMHO, for them to do a little more to simulate the war in Africa. Rest of the parts seem to be in place...

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: mbatch729

I think Matrix has had to do some rework/tweaking of the land combat routines for WiTP. It would only be natural, IMHO, for them to do a little more to simulate the war in Africa. Rest of the parts seem to be in place...

Absolutely. It will be fascinating to see how the UV/WitP land combat system can be modified to address combat operations in North Africa.

Sicily and Italy seem easier and less demanding, but think about those early airborne invasions of islands like Crete (and projected for Malta)...

Let's see how the Germans would have pulled off a lightning strike against Gibraltar through Spain and from the sea...

Man, this game has everything going for it. I can't wait to launch my first radio-controlled glide bomb. Italian frogmen? Go for it, my interest in that approaches being Brady-like. The Swordfish hitting the Regia Marina at Taranto? Yeah, baby. Pedestal? Wasp in the Med reinforcing Malta?

Somebody help me. I'm gettin' on up, gettin' on the scene, gettin' on up, like a sex machine ...

[bradfordkay]

Somebody help me. I'm gettin' on up, gettin' on the scene, gettin' on up, like a sex machine ...

Sorry, you're on your own there, Pasternakski..[:D]

[Drongo]

ORIGINAL: mbatch729

I think Matrix has had to do some rework/tweaking of the land combat routines for WiTP. It would only be natural, IMHO, for them to do a little more to simulate the war in Africa. Rest of the parts seem to be in place...

Assuming 2x3 will just be using the UV (and the similar WitP) routines as a base, what elements of land combat do you think would need to be changed/added to properly represent the North African ground campaign?

[soeren]

Assuming 2x3 will just be using the UV (and the similar WitP) routines as a base, what elements of land combat do you think would need to be changed/added to properly represent the North African ground campaign?

Movement and retreat rules should need a rework, and maybe airfields ( i have not the slightest notion where airfileds in Africa are located ).

[Raverdave]

ORIGINAL: soeren

[

Movement and retreat rules should need a rework,

There has already been some new advances in this area for WiTP.

[tsimmonds]

I'm not sure if this project is really as simple as it sounds. I remember reading the designer notes for SPIs old boardgame War in the Pacific, their original concept was to take their War in Europe (a similar but far less complex monster game) and simply graft onto it some rules for ships. What they ended up with was something far more involved than anyone had envisioned going into the project. The UV-Med game sounds similarly deceptive. To make the situation at all realistic, it would probably have to be on a smaller scale even than UV--the Qattara depression being less than 50 miles from the sea, gamers would probably expect that the battle of El Alemein would take place on a front a bit larger than two hexes wide--and a single kind of land-based supply would probably not satisfy either. Logistics organization, planning and transport was as crucial in North Africa as it was in the Pacific. The only game I ever saw that adequately simulated this aspect of the desert war was SPIs Campaign for North Africa. Anyone remember that? Three different sizes of trucks hauling around fuel, water, ammo and stores? I expect developing this game will end up being something like grafting a computerized version of CNA onto WitP.....but now that's what I want for Christmas[:)]

[Drongo]

Christmas, 2054. [;)]

[Capt. Harlock]

And don't forget mines -- they were a lot more important in the Med than in the Pacific. We'll need minelaying surface ships, submarines, and maybe even aircraft.

[mbatch729]

All already in WiTP. [:D]

[Burkowski]

Yeah, I sure remember CNA and still have SPI's War in the Pacific. Has anyone spoken authoritatively as to whether we are looking at "just" a UV modded up to the Med or a more exhaustive rework tailored specifically to the Med?

My initial thought (and nudged by your comments about CNA) is that SUPPLY will be the central factor in any Med game. I guess one could say the same for any large-scale sim, but especially so in the Med. Everything was driven by supply and supply drove everything. The Allied convoys through to Alexandria, the Axis convoys into Tripoli and Behghazi, all the decisions about the viability of supporting Greece, air cover, the central importance of Malta, etc. Do you all think the UV machine is up to it, or am I really asking, is the new WitP version up to it? I don't mean that as doubt or criticism, just a question about how parallel the two situations are-- the Pacific seems endless with lots of linear axes of stuff going on; the Med is a closed pond with lots of radial stuff going on-- any thoughts from any of the WitP testers or anyone else on this issue? [&:]

Burkowski

[pasternakski]

I'd like to see the UV scale changed to maybe 15 miles per hex. Ground combat will need rework to the degree necessary to reflect how things were in the Med theater. Supply is already at the heart of the UV design, so that may not need a lot of work.

I dunno. I just don't see a lot standing in the way of applying the UV system to the Med. WitP went off in a strategic direction; I think that UV-Med needs to remain "operational," whatever that means by now.

Some posters in old threads (some now defunct - the threads, not the posters) suggested that land combat and operations in Europe were just too massive to be depicted by the UV system. I disagree to the extent that what will have to be simulated are land operations in a theater where the forces involved were not comparatively large. DAK, for example, rolled out of Libya in April, 1941 with a German light division (soon to become 21 Pz) and several Italian division-sized formations (nearly all infantry-heavy and easy to depict). Even the Italian campaign in 1944, due in part to the geographical constraints of the width of the peninsula, did not involve forces as massive as the campaign in China that WitP promises to simulate successfully.

Another restriction those posters thought was necessary was on the duration of the campaign. They seemed to believe that the game would be incapable of going past mid- or late-1943 for whatever reason. Again, I disagree. Consider, for example, the situation at the time the Anzio invasion was planned in order to "shake things up" and get the Italian campaign going again. Sealift was limited. Port capacity for amphibious operations was minimal. Air support was in short supply. A perfect UV situation, where the two sides are desperately short of everything they need, yet it is imperative to act.

One aspect that will be very interesting to see is Italian participation and possibility for surrender after the Allies invade Italy proper and when (and if) they take Rome.

Another is the mechanism that will have to be built in for reallocation of resources to other theaters where the need may be more pressing (Barbarossa and Overlord come to mind as examples).

C'mon. Give me this game.

[mbatch729]

Agreed, Pastman [;)] Most of the work should be in the database setting up the units, and of course the map. Relative child's play compared to coding a million lines or so.

[bradfordkay]

I also don't see why the UV engine cannot handle the war of supply in the Med. After all, that is the same situation in the South Pacific. Burkowski... have you played UV yet? If you're not on top of your supply chain in UV, you're not going anywhere, I promise you.

I think that one of the hardest parts will be coding the need for units to be withdrawn for use in other theatres. I know that we are all going to whine when pressing needs elsewhere take away valuable forces, but that certainly was the case (on a regular basis)in the Med.

This will probably be where we see the use of the WITP breakthrough attacks happen on a more frequent basis (at least in north afrika). The small number of troops (relative to other locations) in Libya, combined with the larger proportion of armoured forces, should encourage this ability to exploit your victories. Of course, you had better get your engineers to open up the harbor at Tobruk quickly, or you will see your offensive stall at the end of a long supply line...

[pad152]

UV-Med, I agree land combat would need to be more detailed from what we have seen in UV and maybe Witp.

I wonder would a UV-Med game include the invasion of Greece & Italy or only north Africa?

[bradfordkay]

My thoughts are that it will have to include Greece and Italy. Otherwise, there isn't much sense to it since the UV engine was designed to recreate WW2 naval operations.

One fun part will be in giving the allied player the choice to send a supply convoy the long way around africa to safely arrive via Suez or in risking the dash from Gibraltar to Alexandria. I know that I'll sweat every one of those choices...


edit:

oops!!! You were wondering if it would start as early as the Greece invasion and last as long as the Italian cmapaign. Let's hope so...

[BB57]

As important as it was to the war effort Ultra should be included. For that matter will the allies be able to read Japan's mail in WitP?

[Gecko]

And what about land warfare? On a rectangular map Yugoslavia, Albania and part of Romania would be included if Italy and Greece are.
Should each hex fall under Soviet control as it did historically? Personally I would like to see another option like this: each reinforcement for the med theatre might be returned into a pool stemming the Soviet advance. That way it may be slowed down (completely under AI control).
Or should the Balkans be treated as a not-so-important area and be left out completely?

bye, Gecko