Marc,
If you get the new Powerbook, you won't be dissapointed.
I agree that the crossplatform issue is a pain, especially when someone like me has both platforms. As an example, I have Flash MX on my PC, so it would be great if I could get the Mac version cheap, but alas, no go. Thats just the way it is.[:(]
JD
Mac OS X
Moderator: maddog986
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John David
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RE: Mac OS X
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
RE: Mac OS X
This isn't a flame, more of a levelheaded comparison. I too like choice but the balance is still in favor of the PC for me - although there are some things about Macs that make me wish that it were otherwise (and it’s a really close call)!
I don't do video or sound editing so those advantages are lost on me. The whole stability thing is pretty much also a non issue for me since WinXP has come out, the only thing that causes me difficulty now is poorly written third party software. So to me XP versus OSX is largely a wash.
Mac Pros(for me):
A) The hardware is extremely well engineered, especially with the laptops.
B) The look and feel of the OS is excellent.
C) Laptops are beyond terrific from a hardware and performance standpoint.
D) Nice peripherals such as the iPod.
The cons (for me) are:
A) Price, yes they've improved but still aren't competitive.
B) Software selection, again improved but nowhere near where I want it.
C) Price.
D) Hardware accessibility – this is more of my impression –which may be incorrect- but I like to get in and get my hands dirty and tinker.
I list price twice to emphasize how important it is for me. I can’t see spending thousands of dollars on a PC anymore as I’m likely to end up replacing it in a few years anyway. If Mac finds a way to get costs lower I think I might end up going that way in a heartbeat.
The two camps are closer together now than they ever have been for me. As a developer, Mac OS/X is a HUGE jump in usability for me. And coupled with the pricing improvements would have made me switch if not for XP and the massive price drops that the intel boxes have had.
I don't do video or sound editing so those advantages are lost on me. The whole stability thing is pretty much also a non issue for me since WinXP has come out, the only thing that causes me difficulty now is poorly written third party software. So to me XP versus OSX is largely a wash.
Mac Pros(for me):
A) The hardware is extremely well engineered, especially with the laptops.
B) The look and feel of the OS is excellent.
C) Laptops are beyond terrific from a hardware and performance standpoint.
D) Nice peripherals such as the iPod.
The cons (for me) are:
A) Price, yes they've improved but still aren't competitive.
B) Software selection, again improved but nowhere near where I want it.
C) Price.
D) Hardware accessibility – this is more of my impression –which may be incorrect- but I like to get in and get my hands dirty and tinker.
I list price twice to emphasize how important it is for me. I can’t see spending thousands of dollars on a PC anymore as I’m likely to end up replacing it in a few years anyway. If Mac finds a way to get costs lower I think I might end up going that way in a heartbeat.
The two camps are closer together now than they ever have been for me. As a developer, Mac OS/X is a HUGE jump in usability for me. And coupled with the pricing improvements would have made me switch if not for XP and the massive price drops that the intel boxes have had.
RE: Mac OS X
Not to pick on the Apple line, but I own computers to run software ... if the software is not available, it really makes no difference who's hardware is better [;)]
I understand that Mac's fit a very special market segment, and that is their choice and they probably have no peers in that market. But, I'm not in that market so I have little use for the machine.
Sometimes people forget that we have all this hardware just to run software, not the other way around.
To each their own, it's a free world if you can afford the price tags. [:D]
The same discussion holds just as true for the Linux vs Windows debate ... who cares which is better? Does it run your software?
I understand that Mac's fit a very special market segment, and that is their choice and they probably have no peers in that market. But, I'm not in that market so I have little use for the machine.
Sometimes people forget that we have all this hardware just to run software, not the other way around.
To each their own, it's a free world if you can afford the price tags. [:D]
The same discussion holds just as true for the Linux vs Windows debate ... who cares which is better? Does it run your software?
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John David
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RE: Mac OS X
Again, in the seemingly never ending series of trying to make a point, please go back to the originator of this thread going off track. The inference was that there is no difference between the two platforms. As I have stated, very well if I may say so[8D], the differences are clear.
The Gnome, you state yourself that you don't do the kinds of things that I mentioned are what Media pros use,(Video editing et..) so the advantages are lost on you. Again, this is the whole point isn't it. What is it about this difference that you PC guys don't get! These are the strengths as to why people in my field and others use Apple computers! That's what makes them different!
As far as the software available, again it's what you do. BTW, that argument about not enough software available for the Mac is very weak and holds very little truth anymore. How many versions of software do you have to have to do the same tasks! Most of the main commercial software is available for both platforms.
The only thing I agree partially with is the price of the Mac Vs. a PC, but as you stated "The hardware is extremely well engineered, especially with the laptops". Remember you get what you pay for. Oh yes, the laptops are really nice, but you have never owned or I bet even tried the new Dual G5's with Panther running in it, because if you had, you would understand what I'm talking about.
As for you Mr.Frag , your statement that:
(" I understand that Mac's fit a very special market segment, and that is their choice and they probably have no peers in that market. But, I'm not in that market so I have little use for the machine."), shows how little you understand about Mac's and the Apple line. the Mac is made also for the everyday computer user, not just for the "Special Market".
Most computer users want the kinds of things that come in the iLife package, along with game playing and internet use. This is why many people have been making the switch.
Mark my words, the reason the next version of Windows is taking so long to come out with is not the 64 bit implementation that is already in Panther, but Microsoft's grudgingly acknowledgement that they too have to offer an iLife type package, (along with trying to make a secure OS! Thought I would forget about that with XP's Billion security patches and Virus vulnerability that Mac's dont suffer from, didn't you!)
Again it is evident that these fallacies and misconceptions are almost always stated by people who have never owned a Mac or spent any REAL time working with one. And don't give me the I used one years ago and I know what there about card, because under OS X and with the G5's, there is no comparison.
None of you have ever used a G5 for any length of time , (because they are so new you have to own one as they are just now coming into commercial use outside of the education and science fields) yet if at all, so don't tell me you can make a fair comparison. Well, I own both so I can!
Now,I have stated my arguments using facts and experience to counter every single objection that has been brought up throughout this thread, vs. the typical arguments, hearsay and misinformation that have been used against Mac's for years.
I have answered everything point by point while the other side continues in generalities. Well, I'm finished with this!
No use of logic or facts will change anyone of your views. You fail to recognize what my point was about in the first place and just regurgitate the same nonsense all Mac users have always heard from the other side.
What's more ridiculous, is the complete disregard for my statement that I too am a PC user, and love my Intel Box!
The bottom line here is unless you own both platforms and have worked with them for years as I have AND have had the G5 to work with, frankly, you are not qualified to make an impartial comparison. I am, and for the millionth time, and please read this carefully, they both have their uses and are both great computer platforms. Again, the point was made by Joe98 that there was no difference between them!
I'm not going to change your minds, nor do I care to because I'm talking to deaf ears. I stated in an earlier post that I don't come to Matrix for this kind of stuff. I only continued to reply because it has been my experience here that 99% of the time people here remain open minded and pliable in discussing issues related to our games (SPWAW OOB discussions excluded[;)]), however it is very obvious that when it comes to the same old and tired Mac vs. PC routines, this place is no different then any other that I have been to.
One last thing for the impartial observer. Ask yourself which side has seen the benefits of both platforms. Who has argued for the difference in the two, without all together writing off the other side which is all too common a ploy on the PC side of the argument.
Why do I know all these things. Why am I so sure that the PC guys are always like this and misunderstand or know nothing about the Mac so they go about it this way. I'll tell you why! BECAUSE I WAS ONCE ONE OF THEM!!
Not until I opened my mind and realized as I was forced to work with a Mac, first in school, then on the job, just how amazing the Mac was. Why I was able to do things easier, faster and with better options than with the same software I had at home running on a state of the art PC! And yes, I love my PC, it's fast and I have some of the latest and best hardware in it, but for CERTAIN things, my old G4 could do these tasks better. Now with the new dual G5, forget about it!
Anyway, I've tried to answer the best I can. Thanks to all of you who read this, I know this is really a silly place to have this discussion, but I have had it with this kind of thinking. I know all about it, as I stated, I was once that way too.
JD
The Gnome, you state yourself that you don't do the kinds of things that I mentioned are what Media pros use,(Video editing et..) so the advantages are lost on you. Again, this is the whole point isn't it. What is it about this difference that you PC guys don't get! These are the strengths as to why people in my field and others use Apple computers! That's what makes them different!
As far as the software available, again it's what you do. BTW, that argument about not enough software available for the Mac is very weak and holds very little truth anymore. How many versions of software do you have to have to do the same tasks! Most of the main commercial software is available for both platforms.
The only thing I agree partially with is the price of the Mac Vs. a PC, but as you stated "The hardware is extremely well engineered, especially with the laptops". Remember you get what you pay for. Oh yes, the laptops are really nice, but you have never owned or I bet even tried the new Dual G5's with Panther running in it, because if you had, you would understand what I'm talking about.
As for you Mr.Frag , your statement that:
(" I understand that Mac's fit a very special market segment, and that is their choice and they probably have no peers in that market. But, I'm not in that market so I have little use for the machine."), shows how little you understand about Mac's and the Apple line. the Mac is made also for the everyday computer user, not just for the "Special Market".
Most computer users want the kinds of things that come in the iLife package, along with game playing and internet use. This is why many people have been making the switch.
Mark my words, the reason the next version of Windows is taking so long to come out with is not the 64 bit implementation that is already in Panther, but Microsoft's grudgingly acknowledgement that they too have to offer an iLife type package, (along with trying to make a secure OS! Thought I would forget about that with XP's Billion security patches and Virus vulnerability that Mac's dont suffer from, didn't you!)
Again it is evident that these fallacies and misconceptions are almost always stated by people who have never owned a Mac or spent any REAL time working with one. And don't give me the I used one years ago and I know what there about card, because under OS X and with the G5's, there is no comparison.
None of you have ever used a G5 for any length of time , (because they are so new you have to own one as they are just now coming into commercial use outside of the education and science fields) yet if at all, so don't tell me you can make a fair comparison. Well, I own both so I can!
Now,I have stated my arguments using facts and experience to counter every single objection that has been brought up throughout this thread, vs. the typical arguments, hearsay and misinformation that have been used against Mac's for years.
I have answered everything point by point while the other side continues in generalities. Well, I'm finished with this!
No use of logic or facts will change anyone of your views. You fail to recognize what my point was about in the first place and just regurgitate the same nonsense all Mac users have always heard from the other side.
What's more ridiculous, is the complete disregard for my statement that I too am a PC user, and love my Intel Box!
The bottom line here is unless you own both platforms and have worked with them for years as I have AND have had the G5 to work with, frankly, you are not qualified to make an impartial comparison. I am, and for the millionth time, and please read this carefully, they both have their uses and are both great computer platforms. Again, the point was made by Joe98 that there was no difference between them!
I'm not going to change your minds, nor do I care to because I'm talking to deaf ears. I stated in an earlier post that I don't come to Matrix for this kind of stuff. I only continued to reply because it has been my experience here that 99% of the time people here remain open minded and pliable in discussing issues related to our games (SPWAW OOB discussions excluded[;)]), however it is very obvious that when it comes to the same old and tired Mac vs. PC routines, this place is no different then any other that I have been to.
One last thing for the impartial observer. Ask yourself which side has seen the benefits of both platforms. Who has argued for the difference in the two, without all together writing off the other side which is all too common a ploy on the PC side of the argument.
Why do I know all these things. Why am I so sure that the PC guys are always like this and misunderstand or know nothing about the Mac so they go about it this way. I'll tell you why! BECAUSE I WAS ONCE ONE OF THEM!!
Not until I opened my mind and realized as I was forced to work with a Mac, first in school, then on the job, just how amazing the Mac was. Why I was able to do things easier, faster and with better options than with the same software I had at home running on a state of the art PC! And yes, I love my PC, it's fast and I have some of the latest and best hardware in it, but for CERTAIN things, my old G4 could do these tasks better. Now with the new dual G5, forget about it!
Anyway, I've tried to answer the best I can. Thanks to all of you who read this, I know this is really a silly place to have this discussion, but I have had it with this kind of thinking. I know all about it, as I stated, I was once that way too.
JD
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
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Marc von Martial
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RE: Mac OS X
Mark my words, the reason the next version of Windows is taking so long to come out with is not the 64 bit implementation that is already in Panther,
Latest news its hat MS will offer an 64bit upgrade for WinXP. It´ll most probably face the same imcompatibility issues OS X has with older Mac software.
The bottom line here is unless you own both platforms and have worked with them for years as I have AND have had the G5 to work with, frankly, you are not qualified to make an impartial comparison.
That is true, you have to "feel it". You don´t need a G5 for that though.
I know this is really a silly place to have this discussion, but I have had it with this kind of thinking. I know all about it, as I stated, I was once that way too.
Na, not true, I´m pretty sure a lot of guys are interested in Macs. As they have been when we discussed alternative software to the regular MS stuff here. I think it´s just that people look a bit "sceptic" at Macs because so "few" people use it. With "few" I mean the regular computer users, not professionals in the media and desktop publishing business.
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John David
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RE: Mac OS X
ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
Mark my words, the reason the next version of Windows is taking so long to come out with is not the 64 bit implementation that is already in Panther,
Latest news its hat MS will offer an 64bit upgrade for WinXP. It´ll most probably face the same incompatibility issues OS X has with older Mac software.
With the ability to boot into Classic (OS 9) or the "Carbon" versions of the software, that is not an issue anymore. Also with Quark FINALLY releasing there upgrade to OS X, the last vestiges of holdouts from OS X has been removed.
The bottom line here is unless you own both platforms and have worked with them for years as I have AND have had the G5 to work with, frankly, you are not qualified to make an impartial comparison.
That is true, you have to "feel it". You don´t need a G5 for that though.
Sorry Marc, but with the Dual G5's that use Panther that is specially optimized to take advantage of the G5 processor, there is a need for even the experienced Mac user to run this new system. It has changed everything!
I know this is really a silly place to have this discussion, but I have had it with this kind of thinking. I know all about it, as I stated, I was once that way too.
Na, not true, I´m pretty sure a lot of guys are interested in Macs. As they have been when we discussed alternative software to the regular MS stuff here. I think it´s just that people look a bit "sceptic" at Macs because so "few" people use it. With "few" I mean the regular computer users, not professionals in the media and desktop publishing business.
Thanks Marc, I appreciate you seeing this for what it is. With the amount of every day computer users switching to the Mac, this perception of Mac's only being for Pro users is quickly changing.
JD
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
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Marc von Martial
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RE: Mac OS X
Also with Quark FINALLY releasing there upgrade to OS X, the last vestiges of holdouts from OS X has been removed.
Quark sucks anyway, move to InDesign 2 [:D]. Oh btw, are they again charging for the Quark upgrade [;)] ?
Thanks Marc, I appreciate you seeing this for what it is. With the amount of every day computer users switching to the Mac, this perception of Mac's only being for Pro users is quickly changing.
Yep, the "new" iMac seems to do quite well in that regard. My girlfriends pa (nearly 70 !!) has a little private Mac museum, he´s what you would call an Apple nerd [;)]
Sorry Marc, but with the Dual G5's that use Panther that is specially optimized to take advantage of the G5 processor, there is a need for even the experienced Mac user to run this new system. It has changed everything!
That is true, but even with older Macs and the respective OS youcan "feel" the difference.
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John David
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RE: Mac OS X
I only mentioned Quark because sooo many pepole were waiting for it and used it as an excuse not to make the switch to OS X.
I've used InDesign since it first came out. I'm primarily an Adobe and Macromedia user, along with Apple's own software, i.e. Final Cut Pro & DVD Studio Pro 2.
If you mean to feel the difference between a PC in regards to older Mac OS's, then yes of course that was my whole point that I made at the start of all this madness at the top of this thread.[;)]
I've used InDesign since it first came out. I'm primarily an Adobe and Macromedia user, along with Apple's own software, i.e. Final Cut Pro & DVD Studio Pro 2.
If you mean to feel the difference between a PC in regards to older Mac OS's, then yes of course that was my whole point that I made at the start of all this madness at the top of this thread.[;)]
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
RE: Mac OS X
ORIGINAL: John David
I only mentioned Quark because sooo many pepole were waiting for it and used it as an excuse not to make the switch to OS X.
I've used InDesign since it first came out. I'm primarily an Adobe and Macromedia user, along with Apple's own software, i.e. Final Cut Pro & DVD Studio Pro 2.
If you mean to feel the difference between a PC in regards to older Mac OS's, then yes of course that was my whole point that I made at the start of all this madness at the top of this thread.[;)]
John, you are clearly missing my point. Of the thousands of titles released each year, how many have a Mac version? Very FEW! Software drives hardware, not the other way around. If Apple had done better marketing years ago, we would all be running them instead of IBM gear. Debate it all you want because it does not really matter in the end. If you had a PC emulator product that actually worked well enough to run my games, I'd be there in a heartbeat because it is by far the better hardware, but such is not the case.
The very first post in this thread is from a user begging for SOFTWARE to be available. You are just as bad as the linux guys, ignoring the real issue in favour of flaunting the better system. Who cares about the system if it doesn't have the software you want??? I am very happy for you that you run software that suits what you need a computer for that happens to be available for a Mac ... I run absolutely nothing that is available for a Mac therefore the Mac is a cute paperweight to me. If you want to debate the software available, feel free.
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John David
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RE: Mac OS X
ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
ORIGINAL: John David
I only mentioned Quark because sooo many pepole were waiting for it and used it as an excuse not to make the switch to OS X.
I've used InDesign since it first came out. I'm primarily an Adobe and Macromedia user, along with Apple's own software, i.e. Final Cut Pro & DVD Studio Pro 2.
If you mean to feel the difference between a PC in regards to older Mac OS's, then yes of course that was my whole point that I made at the start of all this madness at the top of this thread.[;)]
John, you are clearly missing my point. Of the thousands of titles released each year, how many have a Mac version? Very FEW! Software drives hardware, not the other way around. If Apple had done better marketing years ago, we would all be running them instead of IBM gear. Debate it all you want because it does not really matter in the end. If you had a PC emulator product that actually worked well enough to run my games, I'd be there in a heartbeat because it is by far the better hardware, but such is not the case.
The very first post in this thread is from a user begging for SOFTWARE to be available. You are just as bad as the linux guys, ignoring the real issue in favour of flaunting the better system. Who cares about the system if it doesn't have the software you want??? I am very happy for you that you run software that suits what you need a computer for that happens to be available for a Mac ... I run absolutely nothing that is available for a Mac therefore the Mac is a cute paperweight to me. If you want to debate the software available, feel free.
No, I'm afraid it is you who is again missing the point. The point of this discussion was Joe98's assertion that there was no difference between the two platforms. What is it about this that you don't or won't understand!!
The fact that you have no use for the Mac is your concern, and frankly I really don't care.
AGAIN That's not what this was about in the first place.
As far as you and other PC folks continually decrying the lack of games and general software available for the Mac is laughable. True, not all titles are available on the Mac side, but the same can be said about software that I wish I could get for the Windows machine.
Frankly, I'm getting tired of this constant banter back and forth with this nonsense. Once more, you fail to realize the true nature of this discussion and refuse to acknowledge that this whole thing is NOT about PC VS Mac, but the difference. Please, you don't use both platforms , so in my book your not qualified to compare the two.
This thread has run it's course for me because we are having the same usual stupid discussion that sadly, always seems to come up between PC and Mac users. And yes again, the fact that I have repeatedly stated that I have a state of the art PC and I love my Intel box, is again conviently left out of the discussion. Please, go talk to someone else about this because, frankly, I'm tired of this, it's now very boring. As I said earlier, I am talking to deaf ears, who choose to only pick apart certain things instead of the big picture. Enough already! Don't get a Mac. Who cares. This thread should not interest you and other PC users anyway. Why do your type continue to visit and comment on something you apparently have no use for. C'mon, seriously it's all very sad really!
JD
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
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Marc von Martial
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RE: Mac OS X
John, honestly, I think you´re a bit overreacting [;)]
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John David
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RE: Mac OS X
Marc,
I respect your work as a graphic artist and love the stuff you did for Korsun Pocket and the Website, so I am answering your post for that reason, because I will not post anymore take - counter take with others about this.
I'm sorry you think I overreacted. I was merely trying to point out what started my initial point was in concern to Joe 98's assertion of no difference between the two platforms. As usual, it becomes a typical flame war, which I asked it not to be in my initial response to Joe98's comments, but, alas to no avail. Go back and read the whole thread carefully and see how the point of my initial take is constantly pulled off track. One guy says that no Mac user ever answers his question, so I do point by point. Then later, I am told that a Mac is for only specific tasks, not suited for the '"everyday computer user". This was stated because I answered someone point for point! Others keep harping on the lack of software for the Mac. Typical outdated crap. I've seen this too often and I am tired of it.
I do not appreciate the inference from Mr. Frag that "You are just as bad as the Linux guys, ignoring the real issue in favour of flaunting the better system."
It has nothing to do with this, so I called him out on it!
If you think I overreacted because I simply want to stick with the facts, and not have a bunch of nonsense interfere with that, which leads the conversation completely off track, well that's your opinion. Anyone who has read any other of my posts in other threads here knows that this "Hardass" attitude of mine is atypical as I prefer humor and cooperation with my fellow grognards!
As a person who stated that they too have used and is considering purchasing a new Mac, I fail to understand why for you, trying to get the facts straight constitutes overreacting.
Maybe over in Europe, there isn't that mentality like it is here in North America with the fervor and emotion between Mac and Windows user, which I repeatedly stated, that I love both platforms. If it is true, I envy you and I wish it was here as well. I think it stems from the fact that there are more Mac users in Europe and the U.K. per capata then there is here.
So, if I come across as too strong, well it comes from years of having to put up with this attitude and misinformation. There are times when, if one feels personally challenged, as I was being grouped with the "just like the other guys" blast, that you stand up and answer the challenge.
Frankly, I think I stated it best with my inquiry as to why people who have no use for something, continue to harp on it.
I think I have said all I can on this matter, and it is only out of respect for your great talents as a graphic artist and designer that I answered your post.
Can we all get back to what is important here, our love for this place! Let's put this to rest shall we. After all, the whole point of this thread was Ian's request of having a choice to have Matrix port the games on to the Mac. Were talking about choice here, and that is what so great about having the PC and the Mac and Linux ....[;)]
We now return control of your computer to you until next week at this same time when the control voice will take you to... The Outer Limits![8D]
JD
I respect your work as a graphic artist and love the stuff you did for Korsun Pocket and the Website, so I am answering your post for that reason, because I will not post anymore take - counter take with others about this.
I'm sorry you think I overreacted. I was merely trying to point out what started my initial point was in concern to Joe 98's assertion of no difference between the two platforms. As usual, it becomes a typical flame war, which I asked it not to be in my initial response to Joe98's comments, but, alas to no avail. Go back and read the whole thread carefully and see how the point of my initial take is constantly pulled off track. One guy says that no Mac user ever answers his question, so I do point by point. Then later, I am told that a Mac is for only specific tasks, not suited for the '"everyday computer user". This was stated because I answered someone point for point! Others keep harping on the lack of software for the Mac. Typical outdated crap. I've seen this too often and I am tired of it.
I do not appreciate the inference from Mr. Frag that "You are just as bad as the Linux guys, ignoring the real issue in favour of flaunting the better system."
It has nothing to do with this, so I called him out on it!
If you think I overreacted because I simply want to stick with the facts, and not have a bunch of nonsense interfere with that, which leads the conversation completely off track, well that's your opinion. Anyone who has read any other of my posts in other threads here knows that this "Hardass" attitude of mine is atypical as I prefer humor and cooperation with my fellow grognards!
As a person who stated that they too have used and is considering purchasing a new Mac, I fail to understand why for you, trying to get the facts straight constitutes overreacting.
Maybe over in Europe, there isn't that mentality like it is here in North America with the fervor and emotion between Mac and Windows user, which I repeatedly stated, that I love both platforms. If it is true, I envy you and I wish it was here as well. I think it stems from the fact that there are more Mac users in Europe and the U.K. per capata then there is here.
So, if I come across as too strong, well it comes from years of having to put up with this attitude and misinformation. There are times when, if one feels personally challenged, as I was being grouped with the "just like the other guys" blast, that you stand up and answer the challenge.
Frankly, I think I stated it best with my inquiry as to why people who have no use for something, continue to harp on it.
I think I have said all I can on this matter, and it is only out of respect for your great talents as a graphic artist and designer that I answered your post.
Can we all get back to what is important here, our love for this place! Let's put this to rest shall we. After all, the whole point of this thread was Ian's request of having a choice to have Matrix port the games on to the Mac. Were talking about choice here, and that is what so great about having the PC and the Mac and Linux ....[;)]
We now return control of your computer to you until next week at this same time when the control voice will take you to... The Outer Limits![8D]
JD
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
RE: Mac OS X
ORIGINAL: IanAM
A question:
Is there ever going to be a possibilty of Matrix releasing games in Mac OS X format?
I know that is probably better asked of games' developers rather than publishers, but would be interested in hearing the Matrix position on Mac support.
I am a big fan of Matrix games - I own EYSA, Massive Assault, Korsun and HTTR - and would like, at some point to be able to play similar games on my Mac rather than PC...
Quoting the very first post since you seem to want to blur the *real* *issue* John. A little reminder is perhaps in order because you seem like every other Mac user to be overly defensive.
Read it carefully.
Read it again.
Now would you like to address the real issue instead of Joe's comments that have absolutely nothing to do with the real issue?
Software is what computers run. Period. End of statement.
The Mac doesn't run the software I or apparently the user who started this thread wants to run.
End of discussion, no point debating facts. Thats one of the nice things about facts. They are facts. They are not open to interpretation. They simply are.
As far as the rest of your assertions, if you read my notes carefully, you will note that at no time did I ever insult the Mac. It is in fact an excellent machine. I just happen to have no use for it.
Please climb off your podium and deal with reality. You come across as a typical Apple guy with the "who cares that it doesn't run your software, it's better!". I am sorry that you don't see it in your posts, but that is exactly how you come across.
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John David
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RE: Mac OS X
ORIGINAL: Joe 98
ORIGINAL: John David
The new G5 with Panther under the hood is simply awesome![&o][&o]
No its not.
If I am using a spread sheet or a word processor, its exactly the same as Windows.
There is no difference.
Mr. Frag.
Read this . Read it again. Then read it again.
Marc says I'm overreacting. Well, now you know why. My point was in regards to what Joe 98 had brought up, not on Ian's initial remark. What is it that you can't get your head around this!
As far as me being a typical Apple guy, you again don't get it. I have been a PC user longer, and you still convienietly choose to ignore my constant reference to my love for the PC. It is you who are making this into the typical Mac vs. PC. Too bad you can't discern this from your posts.
Also, your interpretation that Ian's request for as you put it in an earlier post, where you put in capital letters was BEGGING Matrix for the software I quote Ian:
" A question:
Is there ever going to be a possibility of Matrix releasing games in Mac OS X format?
I know that is probably better asked of games' developers rather than publishers, but would be interested in hearing the Matrix position on Mac support.
I am a big fan of Matrix games - I own EYSA, Massive Assault, Korsun and HTTR - and would like, at some point to be able to play similar games on my Mac rather than PC."
Where do you see him Begging? Do you have a special insight into his psyche? No, you know what it is, its typical of someone who can't deal with the facts, so they twist and distort what someone else states to try to get their point across. So, just as you did to Ian's remarks, you convienietly did it to mine.
So for the last time, get this through your brain, the discussion I had that started all this was from Joe98's initial remark, not from Ian's. My initial response to Ian was just that I agreed that I would like to see Matrix do this and how great the new Mac's were. But you just won't acknowledge this. You continue to harp on this software issue. Your like a parrot repeating the same stuff over and over and....! What, are you waiting for a cracker or something before you will stop!
As far as you telling me to deal with reality, it is obvious that you have no conception of what reality is. I might occasionally be guilty of being on a podium as you put it, but you live on one. You just seem to be incapable of realizing that I am talking about the difference of the 2 computer platforms, and not the software issue.
Regardless, I keep answering these posts when I say that I am finished with it, but ignorance like yours must be answered. And again, not ONCE have you acknowledged my points of how much I enjoy my PC. You are blind as well as deaf!
As usual you reaffirm my best point on folks like you, you keep talking about something you say you have no use for. No, Mr.Frag
it is you who must join the real world.
Your right about one thing though :
" Thats one of the nice things about facts. They are facts. They are not open to interpretation. They simply are."
Too bad you don't live up to your own words.
JD
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
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John David
- Posts: 373
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- Location: Montreal, Quebec
- Contact:
RE: Mac OS X
Let me post one last thing that I think best applies to this situation.
Obviously Mr. Frag and I can keep this up until one of us drops first, so I will bow out. If you feel you must get in the last word, fine, so be it. As I stated, I don't come here for this.
Let me close by quoting, yes a fictional character, but one that has said some poignant things in the past.
To expect sense from two mentalities of such extreme viewpoints... is not logical.
I'll let you guess who stated that eloquent quote.
I apologize for letting this get personal, it's really not my way.
Out.
JD
Obviously Mr. Frag and I can keep this up until one of us drops first, so I will bow out. If you feel you must get in the last word, fine, so be it. As I stated, I don't come here for this.
Let me close by quoting, yes a fictional character, but one that has said some poignant things in the past.
To expect sense from two mentalities of such extreme viewpoints... is not logical.
I'll let you guess who stated that eloquent quote.
I apologize for letting this get personal, it's really not my way.
Out.
JD
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
RE: Mac OS X
ORIGINAL: John David
Let me post one last thing that I think best applies to this situation.
Obviously Mr. Frag and I can keep this up until one of us drops first, so I will bow out. If you feel you must get in the last word, fine, so be it. As I stated, I don't come here for this.
Let me close by quoting, yes a fictional character, but one that has said some poignant things in the past.
To expect sense from two mentalities of such extreme viewpoints... is not logical.
I'll let you guess who stated that eloquent quote.
I apologize for letting this get personal, it's really not my way.
Out.
JD
As I said in my original post John, let me know when a PC emulator comes out that will let me run my games. This is not about bowing out or winning. That seems to be where we are butting heads. I don't care what is sitting in front of me as long as it runs my software [;)] That's always been my point and will always remain my point. As far as WinDOZE being a choice, it is not, it is forced upon us by the developers slapping DirectX into their code. Do you honestly think that anyone who has been in computers back to the CP/M days on a 8080 *likes* Microsoft???
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carnifex
- Posts: 1294
- Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 8:47 pm
- Location: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
RE: Mac OS X
I believe the point of this thread was "Is there ever going to be a possibilty of Matrix releasing games in Mac OS X format?", and not anyone's assertion of the differences between the machines, but of course this got derailed by your typical hotheaded Mac defender who likes to say stuff like "let's not turn this into a typical Mac vs Pc flame war" and then proceeds to do exactly that, and offers his opinions that end in "Period!" and "End of discussion!".
I find such behavior to be disturbingly typical of many Mac users, who continue to defend what is a niche product with vehemance way out of proportion with the importance (or the topic) of the discussion, spreading dubious claims like "Most mass market games are now avilable for the Mac", when a visit to any computer store will plainly show otherwise.
The reason Matrix (or most companies) won't produce Mac versions of their games is that there is no market for it. Sure, the Mac is great for video editing and graphic design work, but how many people play games on it? Very, very few. If internet usage is any indication, as of March 2004 only 2.4% of people have Macs as compared to other operating systems. Linux has a 2.6% share, and how many companies make games for Linux?
I find such behavior to be disturbingly typical of many Mac users, who continue to defend what is a niche product with vehemance way out of proportion with the importance (or the topic) of the discussion, spreading dubious claims like "Most mass market games are now avilable for the Mac", when a visit to any computer store will plainly show otherwise.
The reason Matrix (or most companies) won't produce Mac versions of their games is that there is no market for it. Sure, the Mac is great for video editing and graphic design work, but how many people play games on it? Very, very few. If internet usage is any indication, as of March 2004 only 2.4% of people have Macs as compared to other operating systems. Linux has a 2.6% share, and how many companies make games for Linux?
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John David
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:43 am
- Location: Montreal, Quebec
- Contact:
RE: Mac OS X
Well, hiding is for cowards and I'm not one. I tried to state my case, and I apologized for my behavior in letting it get personal.
Well, I'm in it for the long haul, it's good for the blood.
carnifex,
I'd rather be a hothead Mac defender as you put it then a no nothing typical ignorant PC only world user that you seem to be. 2.4%! where do you come up with that figure. I know, you saw it somewhere right, your not sure right, Oh yes, you got it from internet usage right. What the hell are you talking about! Internet usage!!
The Mac share of the market is over 10% world wide and growing.
Oh and there are no mass market games available for the Mac right... WRONG. Unlike you with your big mouth and no facts, go here and learn something:
http://www.insidemacgames.com/ and then go here:
http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/
c'mon tell me after that there are no games for the Mac.
As usual your kind picked apart small pieces from all my posts in this thread to make your pathetic little points to make me seem like an ogre. Ahhh... wrong. I'm still waiting for one of you guys to acknowledge that I am just as much a PC user and not some Mac defender.
Your notions of the Mac being only for "video editing and graphic design work" is typical, outdated and incorrect. Again you state the usual garbage and lack of knowledge that so many of your ilk do.
I am constantly amused by the threat you PC only guys perceive in your constant Mac bashing in regards to as you put it, such a small market share computer. If the Mac is so insignificant, why do feel you have to bash it all the time. Instead of having an open mind, which I have shown throughout my posts in this thread by saying time and again how much I like both platforms and how I love my PC, I'm still waiting for the label Mac defender to be dropped from me. Oh, but guys like you who don't use & own both platforms are better qualified to comment on the them then people like me , right! People like you are laughable.
I suggest you visit other computer stores for finding the games you mentioned that don't exist. Oh that's right, you can buy these games over the internet, who'd of thunk it! Plainly visiting the link I supplied will show that once again, your type talks big, but has no facts to base it on.
AS I said, forget about me leaving this thread, I look forward to putting your kind in their place, you know, the kind who sifts through the facts , instead of seeing things from both perspectives as I plainly have stated through out my posts here.
Bring it on, just know what your talking about first!
JD
Well, I'm in it for the long haul, it's good for the blood.
carnifex,
I'd rather be a hothead Mac defender as you put it then a no nothing typical ignorant PC only world user that you seem to be. 2.4%! where do you come up with that figure. I know, you saw it somewhere right, your not sure right, Oh yes, you got it from internet usage right. What the hell are you talking about! Internet usage!!
The Mac share of the market is over 10% world wide and growing.
Oh and there are no mass market games available for the Mac right... WRONG. Unlike you with your big mouth and no facts, go here and learn something:
http://www.insidemacgames.com/ and then go here:
http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/
c'mon tell me after that there are no games for the Mac.
As usual your kind picked apart small pieces from all my posts in this thread to make your pathetic little points to make me seem like an ogre. Ahhh... wrong. I'm still waiting for one of you guys to acknowledge that I am just as much a PC user and not some Mac defender.
Your notions of the Mac being only for "video editing and graphic design work" is typical, outdated and incorrect. Again you state the usual garbage and lack of knowledge that so many of your ilk do.
I am constantly amused by the threat you PC only guys perceive in your constant Mac bashing in regards to as you put it, such a small market share computer. If the Mac is so insignificant, why do feel you have to bash it all the time. Instead of having an open mind, which I have shown throughout my posts in this thread by saying time and again how much I like both platforms and how I love my PC, I'm still waiting for the label Mac defender to be dropped from me. Oh, but guys like you who don't use & own both platforms are better qualified to comment on the them then people like me , right! People like you are laughable.
I suggest you visit other computer stores for finding the games you mentioned that don't exist. Oh that's right, you can buy these games over the internet, who'd of thunk it! Plainly visiting the link I supplied will show that once again, your type talks big, but has no facts to base it on.
AS I said, forget about me leaving this thread, I look forward to putting your kind in their place, you know, the kind who sifts through the facts , instead of seeing things from both perspectives as I plainly have stated through out my posts here.
Bring it on, just know what your talking about first!
JD
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!
RE: Mac OS X
Oh and there are no mass market games available for the Mac right... WRONG. Unlike you with your big mouth and no facts, go here and learn something:
Lighten up Francis. No one here is hurling personal insults but you and if you're trying to win people over or bring some understanding to your point of view you're doing a piss poor job of it. Also,you've said a couple of times you'll bail out and take the high road - why don't you try it this time? Everyone else that's posted actually seems to be having a civil discussion.
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John David
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:43 am
- Location: Montreal, Quebec
- Contact:
RE: Mac OS X
Forgive my ignorance but Who is Francis! A refrence of yours at an attempt at humor?
You state that I should take the high road, but no one has admitted to me that I have been on both sides of the issue, that I am not asking anyone to choose one platform over the other.
As far as bailing out, why should I when my points are constantly being attacked and now having people question my character.
I am not trying to bring people over to my point of view, so don't throw that at me. I'm tired of having my words rearranged and used as a method for stating other peoples views, when I am having to constantly remind some of the folks here about what started this discussion about the DIFFERENCE between the 2 platforms in the first place. And still, I'm waiting for anyone to acknowledge that I have stated that I use and enjoy both platforms.
When you are constantly inundated with folks like you who spout there opinions and distort what I have said, it gets to you. I stated that I was going to bow out and I apologized for making it personal. Then later carnifex comes in and blasts me. Oh but I should be the one to take the high road,and he's being civil right! Right, but he's not hurling personal insults at me with his hothead blast and convenient editing policy on my previous posts!
Why don't you admit, just once that you still don't get it! That you still have not once grudgingly accepted that I have been fair on both sides of the issue, that I am for both platforms, that my discussion started with the point of difference in the two. That i state facts and back them up like the links i provided in regards to the games issue. No, you won't, so you again try to shift the blame to me. Sorry Dwarf...er Gnome! I don't buy it
Francis...er
JD
You state that I should take the high road, but no one has admitted to me that I have been on both sides of the issue, that I am not asking anyone to choose one platform over the other.
As far as bailing out, why should I when my points are constantly being attacked and now having people question my character.
I am not trying to bring people over to my point of view, so don't throw that at me. I'm tired of having my words rearranged and used as a method for stating other peoples views, when I am having to constantly remind some of the folks here about what started this discussion about the DIFFERENCE between the 2 platforms in the first place. And still, I'm waiting for anyone to acknowledge that I have stated that I use and enjoy both platforms.
When you are constantly inundated with folks like you who spout there opinions and distort what I have said, it gets to you. I stated that I was going to bow out and I apologized for making it personal. Then later carnifex comes in and blasts me. Oh but I should be the one to take the high road,and he's being civil right! Right, but he's not hurling personal insults at me with his hothead blast and convenient editing policy on my previous posts!
Why don't you admit, just once that you still don't get it! That you still have not once grudgingly accepted that I have been fair on both sides of the issue, that I am for both platforms, that my discussion started with the point of difference in the two. That i state facts and back them up like the links i provided in regards to the games issue. No, you won't, so you again try to shift the blame to me. Sorry Dwarf...er Gnome! I don't buy it
Francis...er
JD
The only thing good about war, is it's ending!