March on Matrix! WITP Players Unite!

[Mynok]

Time for me to overreact...[:D]

This is not a bug. This is a design defect that makes the game unplayable as advertised.......

Ok.....thanks for letting us know.......

There are no repeatable saves. The code is defective.

"Defective code" is the definition of a bug. "Defective code" is not a "design defect".

Not being able to reproduce the bug is the primary obstacle to getting rid of it, thus the request for saves.

Do you have a clue yet? [8|]

[bstarr]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Do you have a clue yet? [8|]

Nope. I'm as lost as a fart in a hurricane.

[Halsey]

I think someone forgot to take his Prozac today.[:D]

[Mike Scholl]

This started out as fun..., and is headed for a lynching. Ah, the true spirit of America.

Seriously, it sounds as if 2by3 is trying.., so let's try to co-operate. Save every game
turn after before and after you hit the run button for the next few days and see if you
can come up with something they can use. If everyone will do this, and we can't find
something they can work with by mid-January, then we can all get together with Paster-
noski and get drunk and probably arrested for burning down the wrong place.

[fbastos]

he has to have a save that repeats on his machine

It would help to have a debug version of the program which forces a seed of 0 for the random number generator at the start of each turn, so that the turns would repeat when we press End Turn (rather than changing their behavior depending on the random numbers).

The way it is, any bug that depends on the random number generator will never repeat.

F.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: fbastos

The way it is, any bug that depends on the random number generator will never repeat.

F.

QUESTION Why would a leader's nationality or availability in the list depend on a
random number generator? I can understand that the sub-routine generates one
whenever the AI has to chose a CO for a unit/TF/whatever..., but how does that
explain it looking in the other sides' list of commanders? Or sending CO's into the
"matrix" never to be found again? Sounds like the programming for the pathways
has a "leak" somewhere that activates based on other software on each machine.
A more rugged code might fix the leak even if no-one can re-produce it. I don't
have the problem (so far). But I can imagine how frustraiting it could be.

[viking42]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

I live in a very rural area with a very active VFW. Despite not having a base within about 100 miles (hell, the nearest movie theater is 65 miles away, and the nearest McDonalds 45 miles off) we love the military. Very patriotic here. We actually have american flags on every light pole in town year round. The VFW used to put them up on special occasions, but after 9/11 they became permanent fixtures.

Can someone tell me the difference between patriotism and nationalism? ( ie dictonary: Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination. )

Why are the US the only country with patriots?
Can someone tell me why it comes back eveytime in a videogame forum, why can't i just read a forum without having people being proud of their country. why don't we see german, chinese, japanese, dutch, brazilain people talking about their beloved country, how patriot they are, and how devoted they are to their national potential killing force? can't we just be part of the world and this internet community instead of being focused on our country, or worse on our state, our city or street?

In a lot of countries through the world, especialy most of the european countries, the words patriotic/nationalism are taboo; they reminds us dark periods of our history for which we are ashame, the time when we loved to kill for a flag, an idea, a culture, a way of life, a religion, a skin color, the fuckers of the village next door because they are not like us. This time has to be behind us, as it costs us (europeans) about 50millions peoples the last two hundred years. If we all think global, as being part of a planet, we can all get further than the middle ages.

Please, at least half of the readers of this forum are not Americans and have absolutely no interrest in the fact that you are more nationalist than your neighbour, it's quite annoying.

Don't misunderstand me, i'm not talking about actual history or whatever, i just want this forum to stay free of politics. I will never again talk about this or respond to any narrow minded replies i will certainly get.

ps: I'm dutch, with german origins (and a lot more origins) and living in france, i have no idea to which country i should be patriotic..... I will die for an ideal if i have to, but not for a peace of land with a flag on it

[fbastos]

QUESTION Why would a leader's nationality or availability in the list depend on a
random number generator

Like, when the AI generates a task force, a random leader is assigned...

The problem seems to be random, so fixing the random number generator to reproduce the random numbers on each turn may help reproducing it.

F.

PS: Oh, I've found the bug!! It's on the code below:

void LeaderBug()
{
if ( rnd() > 0.995 )
{
brainwash_one_player_commander();
}
else if ( rnd() > 0.992 )
{
transform_one_commander_in_a_chicken();
}
}

Who let the code above in the program?? I guess that's Gary's revenge..

[captskillet]

Please, at least half of the readers of this forum are not Americans and have absolutely no interrest in the fact that you are more nationalist than your neighbour, it's quite annoying.

Well I guess when you have graveyards all over Europe full of Americans who paid a price for you to have the FREEDOM of speech/post.... that may tend to make one 'Patriotic'. The next time some "ultra-nationalist" country wants to go goose-stepping through France or Holland or wherever and take 'your' land and put his 'flag' on it and and you in chains then dont call on us "too patriotic" Americans to come pull your 'chestnuts' out of the Fire for you has we have had to do twice in the last 100 years!

[Oliver Heindorf]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Leader bug: WITP Players Unite!

It’s time we make a stand! I’m not talking about rational behavior here; I’m talking about acting like a combo between a foaming at the mouth liberal at an anti(whatever) rally and a crazed religious nut confronting hardened sinners! We’ll gather together and march on Matrix headquarters (where is it anyway?). Ah, yes, I can see us now, drunk as hell, dressed in loincloths, singing that Twisted Sister anthem “We’re not going to take it.”

Shopping list for the march on Matrix:
I’ll bring the whiskey and finger foods but we’ll also need beer, ice, loincloths, picket signs, crayons, torches, one bull horn, one bull (don’t ask), bongo drums, sleeping bags, eye of newt and a twist of lemon.

And for crying out loud don’t forget to bring your game’s friggin’ serial number.

Our demands:
1) fix the leader bug
2) a shrubbery

So . . .
who's with me

bs



Ps. Dear Matrix, etc - If you don’t fix the leader bug . . . God will hate you.

Pps. I think I forgot to take my medication this afternoon

Those ideas truly belong to Texas

[:D][:D][:D][:D]

[PeteG662]

OK, I'll chime in here since I have been hunting this fricking bug for months now. The leader bug is RANDOM. Turn one of scenario 15 is a perfect place to start! It snowballs from there. Since turn one gets randomized each time there is no way to repeat the bug. From there it is all downhill.

For those of you interested, check out scenrio 10 and look at the leaders for the Chinese LCUs. Maybe one third of them are ??Staff Officers??.

Another one is this....try creating barge TFs in the South Pacific zone scenrio 15 as allies. More likely than not you will get a Japanese leader as TF commander and maybe a few Japanese leaders commanding the barges.

Mike Scholl.....since the leaders are interspersed randomly in the database and intermixed the random generator may be picking from a group of lines to find a leader and picks one of the ones in that group that isn't being used (or in the case of Chinese LCUs, is being used by another LCU) then you get the screwy leader issue come up where Japanese leaders are being assigned to Allied ships, TFs, LCUs, Air units.....I have not seen where the Japanese EVER get an allied CO in any of their units.....it must have something to do with the random generator.

Those are just a few of the instances I have encountered. Now, that being said, I send saves in but they may not be repeatable due to the random number generator mentioned above. I have a turn one save that if I run it over and over I will get different leader changes in different places.

[Duie1]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

I live in a very rural area with a very active VFW. Despite not having a base within about 100 miles (hell, the nearest movie theater is 65 miles away, and the nearest McDonalds 45 miles off) we love the military. Very patriotic here. We actually have american flags on every light pole in town year round. The VFW used to put them up on special occasions, but after 9/11 they became permanent fixtures.

If you live in the USA I can Garentee that there Is a walmart right on the corner Next to the only Trafic light in town.

[2ndACR]

Nah, if the towns are small enough, Wal mart will build a Super Wal Mart right in between the 2.

Then after all the small mom and pops are run out of business, you have to drive 10-15 miles to a store. Seen it happen in Quitman, Tx and Mineola, Tx.

That pissed off Sissy Spacek who grew up in Quitman and has a house on Lake Quitman.

[bstarr]

ORIGINAL: Duie1

ORIGINAL: bstarr

I live in a very rural area with a very active VFW. Despite not having a base within about 100 miles (hell, the nearest movie theater is 65 miles away, and the nearest McDonalds 45 miles off) we love the military. Very patriotic here. We actually have american flags on every light pole in town year round. The VFW used to put them up on special occasions, but after 9/11 they became permanent fixtures.

If you live in the USA I can Garentee that there Is a walmart right on the corner Next to the only Trafic light in town.

nope, the nearest walmart is next door to that mcdonalds, 45 miles away in Jasper.

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, OK I am game. What makes WITP unplayable? Since I have 8 PBEM games going currently and all run at least 1 turn per day the game is clearly being played.
What is the mystery of leaders? The higher the number the better the leader. If there is a number you want to know and can't abide the fact the game does not reveal it in play (since it is trying to get you to decide from how leaders perform rather then just saying "Look stupid place Admiral X in charge of that TF he has the highest number") Just save the game and then open the editor and look. Once you look there will be no more mystery and you'll always know the exact order of promotions among available leaders.
As to their impact I have been saying for many months that often when that monster TF gets it butt kicked by a smaller one the reasons are
1. Leader (most important for deciding who wallops who)
2. Unit experiance
3. Weapons

Leaders need explaining as much as gun ratings need explaining. Sure you might not agree on the number used but you still know that higher is better then lower.

You got 8 games going and haven't sent in a save game with the problem?? I'd think you were a prime candidate to find such a bug.[:D][:D][:D]

[bstarr]

Why are the US the only country with patriots?

I believe there are several Croatian members of the forum that might disagree. They seem quite proud of their orgins, and I, for one, see nothing wrong with this.

Can someone tell me why it comes back eveytime in a videogame forum, why can't i just read a forum without having people being proud of their country. why don't we see german, chinese, japanese, dutch, brazilain people talking about their beloved country, how patriot they are, and how devoted they are to their national potential killing force? can't we just be part of the world and this internet community instead of being focused on our country, or worse on our state, our city or street?

Because people who reply to the same forum over a period of time are going to become familiar with one another, causing small talk to inevitably pop up. Simple solution - if it doesn't interest you, don't read it.

In a lot of countries through the world, especialy most of the european countries, the words patriotic/nationalism are taboo; they reminds us dark periods of our history for which we are ashame, the time when we loved to kill for a flag, an idea, a culture, a way of life, a religion, a skin color, the fuckers of the village next door because they are not like us. This time has to be behind us, as it costs us (europeans) about 50millions peoples the last two hundred years. If we all think global, as being part of a planet, we can all get further than the middle ages.

Granted, America has skeletons in her closet as well, but nothing is perfect. My wife's not perfect, I still love her. Ditto for my country.

Please, at least half of the readers of this forum are not Americans and have absolutely no interrest in the fact that you are more nationalist than your neighbour, it's quite annoying.

Once again, don't read the posts that discuss issues that ruffle your feathers.

I will never again talk about this or respond to any narrow minded replies i will certainly get.

That's rather childish if you think about it. You read a friendly post between two people, that had nothing to do with you, then blurt out your opinion, declare everybody stupid, then promptly cover your ears so you don't have to listen to any replies.

ps: I'm dutch, with german origins (and a lot more origins) and living in france, i have no idea to which country i should be patriotic..... I will die for an ideal if i have to, but not for a peace of land with a flag on it

Did it ever dawn on you that patriotism and/or nationalism might be an ideal.
bs

[2ndACR]

I must be slipping. How in the world did I miss that post.

Politics, belongs in the Steakhouse.

[dwinston]

Bump....

ORIGINAL: Tallyman662

OK, I'll chime in here since I have been hunting this fricking bug for months now. The leader bug is RANDOM. Turn one of scenario 15 is a perfect place to start! It snowballs from there. Since turn one gets randomized each time there is no way to repeat the bug. From there it is all downhill.

For those of you interested, check out scenrio 10 and look at the leaders for the Chinese LCUs. Maybe one third of them are ??Staff Officers??.

Another one is this....try creating barge TFs in the South Pacific zone scenrio 15 as allies. More likely than not you will get a Japanese leader as TF commander and maybe a few Japanese leaders commanding the barges.

Mike Scholl.....since the leaders are interspersed randomly in the database and intermixed the random generator may be picking from a group of lines to find a leader and picks one of the ones in that group that isn't being used (or in the case of Chinese LCUs, is being used by another LCU) then you get the screwy leader issue come up where Japanese leaders are being assigned to Allied ships, TFs, LCUs, Air units.....I have not seen where the Japanese EVER get an allied CO in any of their units.....it must have something to do with the random generator.

Those are just a few of the instances I have encountered. Now, that being said, I send saves in but they may not be repeatable due to the random number generator mentioned above. I have a turn one save that if I run it over and over I will get different leader changes in different places.

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: Sonny

You got 8 games going and haven't sent in a save game with the problem?? I'd think you were a prime candidate to find such a bug.[:D][:D][:D]

Hi, You'd think if a bug was common I would have found one by now. My 8 games represent over 600 turns currently. If my opponenets are having bug problems they are keeping it to themselves.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

ORIGINAL: Sonny

You got 8 games going and haven't sent in a save game with the problem?? I'd think you were a prime candidate to find such a bug.[:D][:D][:D]

Hi, You'd think if a bug was common I would have found one by now. My 8 games represent over 600 turns currently. If my opponenets are having bug problems they are keeping it to themselves.

Sticking with the technical issues instead of the flames; I think that that is a very significant statement. When people have the leader problem, they post; very rarely someone will post that they have NEVER experienced it (applies to me as well, I have never experienced it). The second point in Mog's post that makes me think is does this occur to both players in a PBEM or only one?

To me, this indicates that this is not just some random number generator; there is clearly SOMETHING in the play style of some people that triggers it (fairly frequently apparantly) and a lack of that something in the play style of other people that prevents it from occurring. I have no idea where to go with this, but if no one can manage to capture a good repeatable save, it may be the only way to ever get it fixed.