Pictures of ww2 battlefields in Ukraine

[ShermanM4]

So - it's okay to dig the hell out of Egypt, the Middle East, Central and South America, and Indonesia because those civilizations are over a thousand years old... But NOT okay to dig up the battlefields of Russia because?? WHY??? Just because someone died there?? Hell, people die everywhere...

What are the rules??

Well, I have to say this web site is not scientific or historic. The page with the SS ring and the bike in the lower corner does make it smack of self interest and as Sarge would define it "grave robbing."

Whereas, archeologists, anthropologists, and historians sometimes have altrueistic intentions of advancing science and historical knowlege.

[String]

ORIGINAL: ShermanM4

So - it's okay to dig the hell out of Egypt, the Middle East, Central and South America, and Indonesia because those civilizations are over a thousand years old... But NOT okay to dig up the battlefields of Russia because?? WHY??? Just because someone died there?? Hell, people die everywhere...

What are the rules??

Well, I have to say this web site is not scientific or historic. The page with the SS ring and the bike in the lower corner does make it smack of self interest and as Sarge would define it "grave robbing."

Whereas, archeologists, anthropologists, and historians sometimes have altrueistic intentions of advancing science and historical knowlege.

or maybe just out of the selfish interet of digging up interesting stuff? [:D]

[freeboy]

This issue is a tough one for so many cultures, and that While I find no problem myself.. if a culture itself is offended then we are a whole new issue.. take the American tribes that may, or may not lay clain to the graves and ruins in the southwesst of the US.. Do we have a right to dig, to take to catologe and pjhotograph? I again think the answer is yes, and In the Ukrain I do not see this as much iof an issue.. but it is a sore point to many here in our nations west.. just a thought.. I am not a native Tribes person BTW..


the link is very cool btw. not sure how the naked girls made it in though!..

[Marc von Martial]

Archaeology, be it a hobby or science, is and has always been "grave robbery" and on top of that is has / had allways disturbed the piece of burried people, from whatever culture.

Sadly this is juts the way it is and by "grave robbery" and disturbing graveyards a lot of very important discoveries have been made. Definetly. But no one on this planet, be he a scientist or a hobiest can say it was "okay" what he has done. I personally would not be okay with the fact the somebody in 200 years from know ouwld dig up my grave and display me in a museum. Think about it. Burial ceremonies are a part of human nature. And even if the burial ceremony is to let people rot where they died. There´s allways a reason behind it. IIRC there´s no culture that simply says "He´s dead, who cares"

[Sarge]

Upon reading some of the replys,I think I have been misunderstood. I have no issue with exploring a battlefeild. On the contrary I am fascinated with the oportunity they have. And of course I along with everyone else would pick up the relics I happend to find, Can you imagine finding a mg42. All you have to do is go over to ebay and take a look, "Russin battlefield relic" search will most likely bring up a sizable amount of auctions.
But as I stated before, you can't tell me that the pepole on that site are not searching human remains looking for the big pay off, and take what ever they might find in the process.

[Marc von Martial]

There´s only few groups of these so called battlefield archaeologiests that actually take the time to collect the human remains, if they find some, and give them a real grave that´s great. Those groups that actually do dig up fallen soldiers to finally give them a grave I pay my respect (I donate money yearly to a german institution). Those that only "rape" a battlefiled to grab medals and personal belongings from fallen soldiers simply to make a buck on Ebay (or wherelese) I pray they rot in hell.

[RBWhite]

Marc & All Others

I totally agree with the point Sarge has made about grave robbing.

I don't recall seeing anything about the remains of the fallen German infantrymen being sent home for identifacation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Marc: Could you check with the Institutions that you donate too in Germany too see if any remains have come back to Germany from that so called dig. Here in the States remains are always being searched for and retuned. POW/MIA. To the best of my knowledge it has all been an HONORABLE process to date.

So, I believe those pictured at that website above have long slow rot coming.

Now you all can know I can't stomach ebay. (It's a trash Dumpster, Skip what ever large trash receptacles are called in German) Ebay that is.

Rick White

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: RBWhite
Marc: Could you check with the Institutions that you donate too in Germany too see if any remains have come back to Germany from that so called dig. Here in the States remains are always being searched for and retuned. POW/MIA. To the best of my knowledge it has all been an HONORABLE process to date.

It´s looks like these guys here actually care : http://www.serpentswall.com/page5.html


Normally no reamins are ever sent back. If a soldier can be identified and is still on the POW/MIA list then his relatives will be notified of his dead. The bodies will then be buried at a local soldiers cemetary. Relatives get the grave number then. The "Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge" cares about building new soldier cemetaries and keep old ones in shape. As well as burials. Most of the members are volunteers and a lot of young people help there too. There´s actually exchnage programs for younger people. Together with young people from former "enemies" they spent parts of their vacations to keep cemetaries in shape.

[RBWhite]

Marc:

Yes, I saw and read what you have shown. I don't question the Cemetaries and Monuments already built to Honor the fallen.

I also hope someday all the families will know the final resting places of those lost and missing.

But I do have some concerns about the motives of those shown riding around on their charming little motor bikes and doing fairy ring dances[;)].


Rick White

[IronManBeta]

I was reading - I think in the Economist magazine - that a large number of dead are only now being found in what used to be East Berlin. The Soviets never cared about redevelopment or building and left whatever they found pretty much in place. Now that a great deal of new construction is going on they are finding unexploded ordnance (10,000 tons already!) that has to be taken care of and a large number of skeletons of soldiers and civilians from the war. I trust that they are providing a proper burial at last for those they find. I don't think a positive identification could be made in very many cases at this late stage but I'm sure they are trying anyway.

A lot of Canadian soldiers died in Holland and the Dutch have always made a special effort to tend the graves and keep the memory alive. The papers here are full of pictures and remembrances of what is going on there. It is very touching. Our prime minister is there too come to think of it. These things matter.

Rob

[Agent Smith]

The Soviets never cared about redevelopment or building and left whatever they found pretty much in place.

What do you mean?

[Rooster]

I wouldn't ever condone grave robbing and I'm not much into eastern religions, but...

Swearing a vile oath, putting on a death's head ring, and marching into somebody else's country to kill or be killed can't be good for your karma. You probably owe somebody a motorbike somewhere down the road.