In early 1942, US LBA has not enough exp to hit undamaged Japanese carriers trough KB CAP. My opponent sent 100 B-17E against the KB and around half get trough, but scored no hits. At this date the only real threat to an intact KB are dive bombers and torpedo bombers.
Admiral
I have seen LB's hit Jap CV's on day one, usually only one or two hits. I think it was a variant of the start scenario. I am not saying they will do huge damage but if you opponent puts KB in range of enough enemy air power for too long eventually one will penetrate
Hello. In my current AAR, I am working to isolate PH.
I took Johnson, Midway, Christmas, Palmyra, and French Frigate Shoal. Bettys and Zeros are operating out of Midway and Palmyra while a portion of my KB with 12-15 SS cover the E/NE portion that leads to the West Coast.
Am currently contemplating taking Hilo and Kona to advance the Bomber line.
The whole point of Operation Eastern Wind is NOT to take PH but force him into committing his fleet so I can HURT it. To this goal, I have been successful in sinking 1CV, crippling another, and sinking 5 CA. With 2 more CV already sunk, I have command of the Pacific throughout the rest of 1942--if I am careful...
The AAR is John Vs. Wolfpack--The Japanese Version. GOOD LUCK!
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
For any who are still paying attention, it's Dec. 29th and he's pounding Johnston Isl. for what I can only assume prep for a landing. Hit me with no fewer than 7 BB's, plus KB (he may have slipped a carrier or two out of the force, though. Seems like the numbers were a bit light on his air attack. Maybe he's got some sqdns on nav attack.) Crap!! I just remembered I forgot to move my PBY's out of there.
As for moves elsewhere, I haven't seen anything too big coming my way. He's shoring up his DEI ops right now. The AVG just popped him a good one in China. Took down 30 Nates and assorted bombers with no losses on my side. That pissed him off. I expect he'll either stand down a bit or send in the zero's.
use CV to distract Japan - KB will move off hawaii to hunt for carriers as CV can halt any advance in DEI
without KB support LBA + fleet should be enough to kick his ass
without KB support LBA + fleet should be enough to kick his ass
Hmm, maybe it's the way my opponents play but I haven't seen this. As the Japanese, I choose my initial invasions in the DEI carefully. Bases with L4+ airfields and L3+ ports are critical. I move up my Zeros and Nells/Betties and overwhelm the Allied forces, no matter what flavor. They can occasionally sneak in a small surface TF and do some damage, but usually at the cost of the surface fleet. It slows me but doesn't stop me. I don't think the Japanese can be stopped at the start of the war if they really want a chunk of dirt.
Hey Mr. Frag! Nice to see you jump into the conversation. I have thought about that move as a possiblity.
Bottom line for the gentleman who is being threatened. Move in your LBA and make a FIGHT of it! If you can damage or sink some of the KB and/or his battle fleet, it cannot be replaced. Even though you will take heavy casualties, the more damage done to him will make it FAR easier for you later. This said...that applies if you DON'T lose Pearl...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
Well I knew I had beaten feinder down some at PH but the problem was one of sorties It was time to go rearm. I had enough sortie points left that I could still fight if the US carriers showed up. I have seen AAR's where KB plasters Pearl for several days and the the US CV's show up and KB is out of sorties and low on fuel and has a lot of planes damaged. The US CV's may still get spanked some but KB is a long way away from home and almost any badly damaged ship is in real trouble. Plus US planes can bingo to Pearl IJN goes into the drink.
Anyone ever tried a opening grab for Lahaina with it's nice port and quick build to size 4 airfield?
Hi Frag, read my AAR 'Bloody Pacific', I did exactly this, turn Lahaina in a massive air and sea base, with ARs, ADs, AE and so on and 500+ air support and use it to bomb PH and take it.
He's about to take Johnston Isl. Do you guys think it's worth trying to sneak a division in to Hilo or Lahaina? It's pretty risky, but you masterminds are making me very nervous again.
He's about to take Johnston Isl. Do you guys think it's worth trying to sneak a division in to Hilo or Lahaina? It's pretty risky, but you masterminds are making me very nervous again.
From where will you take the division ? From PH will means that Ph and Lahaina will have similar garrisons and so PH may be take nby a direct assault. From West Coast may be interesting but a better use will be to drop it with supplies in PH. PH with 3 div and supplies should hold. Take care to not lose your division at sea in a KB attack.
PH and Lahaina are the two places to defend, and I'm not sure for the second. All other places will need a lot of work, and Japanese have no bulldozers. And they are the best port, critical to save ships damaged in invasions.
Forgot to mention before that he's pretty much rolled up the Aleutians, too. I'm telling you guys, he's everywhere! Mostly it's the light landing forces, but it's so early in the game I haven't been able to concentrate anywhere yet to oppose him, I have hit some of his amphib forces with small surface TF's, which have been moderately successful, but costly, too.
YOu have to keep up the guerilla war. YOu can't really stop the Japanese attack (unless her spreads himself too thin), but you can slow it. Keep pounding him with small surface TF forces. I like to use groups of 3 DDs or one CL and one DD as surface raiders. I have caused lots of havoc, though only moderate damage to my opponent this way. But fight your opponent for every atoll and island possible. Make him bring overwhelming force to each atoll. That will slow him down. Even us Pgs and AVDs to fight, though there experience is so poor they aren't very good. They will still scare off unescorted landing TFs.
As for moves elsewhere, I haven't seen anything too big coming my way. He's shoring up his DEI ops right now. The AVG just popped him a good one in China. Took down 30 Nates and assorted bombers with no losses on my side. That pissed him off. I expect he'll either stand down a bit or send in the zero's.
Look for the zeros. The only tactic I have found to work for the AVG in the early war is hit and run.
So what kind of bombing routine has your oponent settled into. Is he bombing PH consistantly or have you been able to recover?
If you have reestablished air parity then it might be OK to bring in an additional division to the west coast. If KB intercepts it will be a slaughter. But if you have a hundred or so fighters in the area at least you can make it very costly for him. You need some CAP and LRCAP or he just kills your transports in droves for free.
You can try:
Fast small convoy, AP's only full speed and try to sneak in. Disadvantage is that if KB hits you you may lose the whole division and every ship.
Big slow convoy- Ap's and 70-80 AK's carrying supplies. Maybe even some surface ships for AA suport. If protected by CAP and LRCAP he can't sink them all. KB will spend days and tons of sorties trying to kill all those transports. And he will be fighting through your fighters for every battle. Your sure to land some of the division and your cripples can be saved at PH. For several days KB will be occupied and unable to bomb your airfields.
1. Put your LCU(s) exclusively on the 15kt+ APs. Scrape together as many of them as you can, and load it onto them. More APs means you spread lessen the pain if they get sunk, and they unload quickly.
2. Pack the TF with 100 ships. Anything that floats and can make over 15 kts. Again, you're putting lots of targets out there.
3. Bigger ships are better. The CL/CA will be bomb attractors.
4. Send out spoiler TFs. You've probably got plenty of stuff at PH. Damaged ships make great magnets. Form some other TFs, to draw the attacks. Don't send 'em out tho, until you're in the final run to PH. If the ships do their job and -do- get blasted, you'll want to be able to run them into port asap.
5. Or at the end of the run, you can split your TF into a bunch of singles (have fun clicking). The singles will be a lower priority target, and might get skipped. If you have some 2 - 3 ship TFs, esp with damaged ships, KB will be more likely to launch vs. those multi-ship TFs than your singles running the blockade.
Bear in mind these are desparation measures. But if he's really that close to threatening PH, desperate times call for despirate measures...
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me
Plus after his first strike your TF will automatically divide into a cripple and healthy group. As these get hit they further subdivide.
KB will split its strikes to hit each of these. With enough CAP you will be able to fight each of these smaller groups of aircraft.
This will not work if you have not recovered your air power in the area. Without fighter support KB will take few losses and inflict massive loss on your transports. I had a 100 ship convoy hit by a four carrier force over a period of three days. I lost 40 ships with about 40 others heavily damaged. I had no fighter cover in this case. Not that fighter cover is going to prevent losses. But they should be less and you will kill his planes along the way.
I might well land the added division in Lahaina. The two divisions at PH should be sufficient as long as they maintain supply. Putting a divison at lahaina might prevent its easy capture by SNLF's and other small forces. Of course its a big risk.
There's a lot to be said for the more conservative strategy of just defending with the exisiting forces. Is he really willing to commit his carriers to PH for three months??
Guys, am I mistaken in thinking that the carriers cannot reload bombs and torpedoes with at-sea replenishment? If the KB has never gone back to a port for replenishment, then it shouldn't be able to support any invasion of PH as the carriers will have very few sorties remaining - right?
I would be temtped to use the 3 US CVs to protect any division being sent from the west coast to Pearl. Once the transport TF gets within fighter range of the Hawaiian Islands, the carriers can be pulled quickly out of the way, but a division is worth risking them. Should the KB simply move to a blockading position between the HI and USwc, then the fighters in Hawaii will be of no use. This area is where the 3 US CV TFs should be set on "following" the transport TF.
If you lose PH you won't be able to retake it before late 1943.
How do you work that out?
I think people are very conservative here as to what the Allies can do. By the end of 1942 the US has a lot of SWPAC, SOPAC and CENTPAC divisions available.
And by the end of 43 the Allies have a Death Star that makes KB look puny. I doubt they really need to wait that long, given how exposed Pearl is to Allied counterattack.
