japanese radar again

[pauk]

i don't have problem with ongoing games - i can live with that(although i'm not pleased). But would like to see jap radar fixed in new patch. Somehow, i know this wouldn't be fixed - although i don't know why.....[&:] it doesn't looks like big deal...

[michaelm75au]

Sometime back around patch 1.4(?), the penetration value for the Type 13 got zero'ed. It was there in the original release (1.0/1.21) but no-one seemed to notice that it got cleared until 1.5(?). [And again, I think it slipped pass in the last 1.6 database changes.]
Currently, I don't believe that any database fixes are planned. Work is concentrated on fixing code bugs.
If you want to have the radar fixed, either use my little program to update the scenarios #1-16 or duplicate the scenario in question to another slot and update the 'penetration' value to 500 for device 139.

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Penetration for radar is simply a flag. 0 means it detects surface units 500 means it detects air units.
The aircraft/surface classification only refers to where the radar is mounted. (Surface is on ships and LCU, air is aircraft).

There was a fix posted from michael that would update the database but it of course does not work on games in progress.

[Sneer]

i remember you writing about some fixing utility
question is if there is any japanese radar working ?

[michaelm75au]

As far as I know, the Japanese Type 13 (in official scenario) is the only radar that definitely does not work for air-search.[&:]

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Sometime back around patch 1.4(?), the penetration value for the Type 13 got zero'ed. It was there in the original release (1.0/1.21) but no-one seemed to notice that it got cleared until 1.5(?). [And again, I think it slipped pass in the last 1.6 database changes.]
Currently, I don't believe that any database fixes are planned. Work is concentrated on fixing code bugs.
If you want to have the radar fixed, either use my little program to update the scenarios #1-16 or duplicate the scenario in question to another slot and update the 'penetration' value to 500 for device 139.

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Penetration for radar is simply a flag. 0 means it detects surface units 500 means it detects air units.
The aircraft/surface classification only refers to where the radar is mounted. (Surface is on ships and LCU, air is aircraft).

There was a fix posted from michael that would update the database but it of course does not work on games in progress.

If I understand correctly, since there is unlikely to be a database change in the foreseeable future, and there is likely to be 1-2 patches by such time, doesn't that mean that until the database is changed that if you patched that data yourself, as I did, that it will stay that way? If, in the future, there should be a database change, and that particular bit of data is there, IOW the entire database would be on the patch not just the changes, that would necessitate re-applying the patch wouldn't it (assuming the fix still left the value at zero)? Do Matrix patches for DB's just include the changes or the whole thing? Thanks.

[michaelm75au]

The DB changes generally are total file replacement. Don;t think I have ever seen a case of partial/incremental changes in their patches.

[Sneer]

another question about radar
site
http://www.combinedfleet.com/radar.htm
shows radars were much widely used than it is in game
even japanese submarines were fitted with them [8|]

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The DB changes generally are total file replacement. Don;t think I have ever seen a case of partial/incremental changes in their patches.

What a bummer, then we have to worry each time a db change is made. Well, they could just make an incremental change and end up conceivably with a whole different value (like the entire piece out) and still be a problem anyway. If I had thought it out for a little while longer I would have reached the conclusion that no matter which way you do it, db changes are something to worry about as far as IJN radar goes.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Penetration for radar is simply a flag. 0 means it detects surface units 500 means it detects air units.
The aircraft/surface classification only refers to where the radar is mounted. (Surface is on ships and LCU, air is aircraft).

Ok, that makes perfect sense - and explains what is wrong with Type 13 RADAR

[Honda]

I just remembered, since the conversation is about the non-functioning Jap equpiment, how nice it would be if Jap recon planes turned into kamikaze could actualy have a chance of hiting something. With a max load of 0, they do no damage whatsoever. Maybe there should be a code for kamikaze that would add 500 to max load for the purposes of the plane turned into a kamikaze. That would simulate the force of a fuel laden plane hitting a ship without any bombs attached to it. If a plane should acctualy have a max load value it would just add it the base 500 that should be given to any kamikaze.
And will Okhas ever hit anything?

[Sardaukar]

Yep.
Type = either surface or aircraft radar. Means the platform it's mounted on. Effect= chance/quality of detection.
Range= quite self-explaining one. Penetration= 0 detects surface targets, 500 detects aircraft.

[pauk]

any chance for fixing type 13 radar?

[el cid again]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Big B

That was one of the questions I asked a week or two ago -

But more to the point, I didn't think the game distinguished between air search and surface search radars - only surface vs airborne radars (for use in aircraft)?[&:]

B
[quote]

It does. There are airborne radars and surface radars that work on land or ships. There are air search and surface search radars for land and ship use - and there are airborne intercept and surface search radars for use by planes. There are also navigation radars for planes - but I do not know if they actually work or not? In RHS radars are redefined to have correct ranges and functions (one type got mixed up between yards and miles) - and we have added the first sort of ESM ever - because it really is a radar set that really was mainly used in the ESM mode vs other radars at a time there was almost universal radar out there to detect.

[el cid again]

It is fixed in various forms in various mods. CHS has made it work in the game design intent sense. RHS has turned it into the Type 11/12/13 radar (all are air search - all had the same range - but production went up and cost went down with each version).

I began life as a USN Electronics Technician (Radar) - I got to study Japanese radar and technology - and naturally I have put some effort into making this very simple model more correct. You may lift the devices from RHS device files too. But the biggest error is - until RHS - most of the 30,000 Japanese radars IRL are missing. They had a land based air search system OPERATIONAL BEFORE Dec 7, 1941 - and naval radars BEFORE the Battle of Midway (barely - and not at that battle) - but you would never guess in CHS or stock. They build 6000 of just one model of AI radar - and nary a one in CHS or stock. So the biggest thing to do is get the OB right. Note Japanese radars are generally shorter range and less reliable than Allied radars - there is a significant radar advantage for the Allies - just not a total one from mid war.

[spence]

I do hope that some day Matrix fixes the data base errors including this one.

I won't dispute Cid's numbers re radars available to the Japanese. IMHO though the slow deployment/lack within the IJN at least accurately reflects a culturally based myopia regarding radar. Traditional Japanese Culture was the ideal and basically radar just did not fit well or easily into the culture/ideal of the individual Samurai Warrior and his sword. Neither the Radarman nor his equipment directly inflicts damage on the enemy...(in WW2) a gunner or torpedoman or pilot or bombardier does that. Creating a large and necessarily complex, cooperative organization which did not directly inflict harm on the enemy was just too much for the IJN "Brass" to get real excited about. The idea of a CIC/FDC didn't make it to the "Study Stage" in the IJN until 1945.

The US had a cultural advantage in that pretty much everybody subscribed to the idea that new fangled gizmos are good. The "Brass" didn't have much of a clue how to employ the radar gizmo but figured it must hold some potential and they'd let the younger guys who knew more about figure out how to use it. It took a while. Fighter direction needed at least all of 1942 to work out the bugs and the same can be said for CICs (witness Adm Callahan choosing an SC equipped ship over SG equipped Helena (which could have given him a beautiful "Gods Eyes' View of the developing battle: Naval Battle of Guadalcanal...put the other SG ship in the squadron in last place in the column too).
But I think the main reason the US deployed superior radar systems AND ORGANIZATION/DOCTRINE lies with that subtle cultural difference.

[Sardaukar]

Type defines what platform radar is installed..surface or aircraft. Penetration defines (0 or 500) if it searches naval or air targets. This has been around for looong time..we need FAQ...[:'(]