Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
[Hey tribes,I can agree only to how vauge your statment just was; what kind of ground are these said tanks tryin to cover #1 and what type of tanks are they?? my point with Gunny was to get him to be a little more diverse with his assets utilization and not the marvelous lists of tecnical weapon abilities and hypothetical theories of capacities of the land, your forces, what u think u know about your enemies tactics, there weapons and what u really can get away with during the battle. quote]undetected, unsupressed enemy Infantry, one is going to lose a good part of his tank or armored force. [/quote]
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
It really doesnt matter if the terrain is open , wooded, rough or anything else. Undetected , unsuppressed Infantry will assault your tanks or vehicles as soon as they move next to them. The terrain has nothing to do with the potential success of that assault. Not to mention antitank guns will get several shots before being detected as well.
I agree there are times when you need to bite the bullet and surge your Armor forward. But if you practice that as a tactic in every battle from the get go, you will be replacing a lot of tanks after every battle.
As to your "marine" force.... dont see a lot of actual Marine units or equipment there. Part of the idea is to play "semi historically" with the actual units and equipment present in the Army you are playing as.
I agree there are times when you need to bite the bullet and surge your Armor forward. But if you practice that as a tactic in every battle from the get go, you will be replacing a lot of tanks after every battle.
As to your "marine" force.... dont see a lot of actual Marine units or equipment there. Part of the idea is to play "semi historically" with the actual units and equipment present in the Army you are playing as.
Favoritism is alive and well here.
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Well tribes I 'll say the same to you as I did to Gunny, put your money where your mouth is and start screenshot and posts to show all of us otherwise.
I'll repeat again for those of u whom may only be pulling very generalized statememnts out of my post to glen, what my point is!!!!
Glenn initialy claimed to have his marine force OOB's down to a science. I mentioned to him on our own personal level of communication that I figured he hadn't played that force enough to spout that, where in the previous posting can u find anything that says I drive anything upto unsupressed,undetected anything ? twotribes...., and I love getting interupted by fellow forumers when they have additional merritt to the discussion,but what are u tryin to say??? My point as you mentioned with "as to your marine force" is that MY tactics,dispersement,and utilization of the forces at hand,a litteral garage sale collection,,, fought the way I wanted them to with alot less casualties than I think Glenns forces with the broad front advance would have.
AND tribes what where your past REAL military affiliations???? YOU A REAL SERVICEMAN???? and did'nt u read the bocage assaulting example????
I'll repeat again for those of u whom may only be pulling very generalized statememnts out of my post to glen, what my point is!!!!
Glenn initialy claimed to have his marine force OOB's down to a science. I mentioned to him on our own personal level of communication that I figured he hadn't played that force enough to spout that, where in the previous posting can u find anything that says I drive anything upto unsupressed,undetected anything ? twotribes...., and I love getting interupted by fellow forumers when they have additional merritt to the discussion,but what are u tryin to say??? My point as you mentioned with "as to your marine force" is that MY tactics,dispersement,and utilization of the forces at hand,a litteral garage sale collection,,, fought the way I wanted them to with alot less casualties than I think Glenns forces with the broad front advance would have.
AND tribes what where your past REAL military affiliations???? YOU A REAL SERVICEMAN???? and did'nt u read the bocage assaulting example????
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Ahh yes question me on my military background. Exactly what does that have to do with this discussion?
As to what you claimed.... you state that driving tanks forward of infantry is a tactic one should consider rather than always putting them behind the infantry. Your Bocage example ignores the fact that INFANTRY is used to locate and pin the enemy and then the tank moves forward to breach the bocage.
You further ask what terrain is involved regarding driving tanks forward of supporting arms, and I pointed out that in this game, it doesnt matter what terrain your in as it plays no part in whether an infantry assault is successful or not on a tank that has moved adjacent to said Infantry.
Further you talk about a hodge podge force while belittleingGunny. He has chosen to use a "historical" force. Your force is built simply on what is best avaialble across all Allied armies, such a force never actually exsisted. You are comparing Apples and Oranges.
To answer your question. I am a retired Marine GySgt.
As to what you claimed.... you state that driving tanks forward of infantry is a tactic one should consider rather than always putting them behind the infantry. Your Bocage example ignores the fact that INFANTRY is used to locate and pin the enemy and then the tank moves forward to breach the bocage.
You further ask what terrain is involved regarding driving tanks forward of supporting arms, and I pointed out that in this game, it doesnt matter what terrain your in as it plays no part in whether an infantry assault is successful or not on a tank that has moved adjacent to said Infantry.
Further you talk about a hodge podge force while belittleingGunny. He has chosen to use a "historical" force. Your force is built simply on what is best avaialble across all Allied armies, such a force never actually exsisted. You are comparing Apples and Oranges.
To answer your question. I am a retired Marine GySgt.
Favoritism is alive and well here.
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
I don't see anything "wrong" with Riun's choice of forces, as the game allows one to pick and choose as they please.
As for me, I strictly pick from the USMC, and my force is much less mobile. I have a few jeeps to tow a couple of 37mm ATGs and a couple of 50 cal AAMGs, and use two LVTs to haul my four 81mm mortars. No halftracks, but a couple of SPMs. Three tank platoons (Company A, 1st Tank Bn, with 15 M2A4s). With my three reinforced rifle companies, I have a reasonable facsimile of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, AKA Landing Team 15 circa 1942. That's as far as the "science" goes.
The thing I see you doing, Riun, and it may be subconscious, is giving your core a force structure that's noticeably "modern". Not that there's anything wrong with that, as you're relying on your own military experience. [;)]
As for me, I strictly pick from the USMC, and my force is much less mobile. I have a few jeeps to tow a couple of 37mm ATGs and a couple of 50 cal AAMGs, and use two LVTs to haul my four 81mm mortars. No halftracks, but a couple of SPMs. Three tank platoons (Company A, 1st Tank Bn, with 15 M2A4s). With my three reinforced rifle companies, I have a reasonable facsimile of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, AKA Landing Team 15 circa 1942. That's as far as the "science" goes.
The thing I see you doing, Riun, and it may be subconscious, is giving your core a force structure that's noticeably "modern". Not that there's anything wrong with that, as you're relying on your own military experience. [;)]
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Great to talk to a real fellow grunt buddy, its just very odd for me to get a wack of questions out of the blue,in the middle of my belittleing GUNNY, hahah ahahahaha,if you knew how often glen PM's and e-mails me on my oppinions you'd understand why I'm sortta ribbin him publicly.
I'm mearly a canadian corpral in the north saskatchewan regiment from80-94 retiring from injuries incured in active service in somalia 93. living in saskatoon now.
ANd no MY tanks in the marine campaign played the japs game of having a recce or asslt team riding them up to a contact point determined by the sniffers{ refer to earlier post}and disgourging some smashers or slammers,,
A better gruntlike description of terms:
Sniffers/Lookers= recon units who don't nessassarily see the enemy but threw knowledge of the terrain/cover requirments of their following force and lack of heavy fire power DON"T run directly up the enemies predicted boundries and approach path in plain view and and anounce their presents. they are the pathfinders so to speak because they pay attention to the PATHS you and the enemy have to cross to fight.They are who tells your local platoon where to entrench, and which direction your platoon should fall back to.
These are two seperate catigory of units for function perposes only because their all fighting units {gunny has trouble timing the differant branches} Lookers = the recon resources that you have directly outfront looking for the physical enemy.
When a looker SEES an enemy unit his job is to assess the unit type,threat to the following forces and most of all determine their direction and composition of travel, lookers also try not to be seen themselves and only usually fight defensivly,they will usually also be the ones in touch with the HQ and FO and sometimes radioing to the sniffers to tell them which direction to prepare the platoon and other arriving units for firing,setting ranges and fields of fire,precoordinating Arrty grids.
Smashers/slammers,again not to be confused or combined in the dortrinal preformance
Smashing units are any that may be a little slower in their arrival to the opperating area but make up for it by having enough firepower to stand alone on any part of the battlefield that the sniffers and lookers deem suitable for them to set up to support their platoon.smashing units are the midsize squads or vehicles that can provide heavy,but short term volume fire of middle to heavy calibres to allow the slammers holders and keepers the fluidness of stopping up any holes that develop in the platoons boundries.
Slammers are the liquid assets that dig a foxhole where the sniffers and lookers told them the rear boundry for their section is,but them are mobile inside this boundry to Slam any infiltrators or breaches back infront of the smashers.
And finally the Holders and the keepers again two differant tasks but still a cohesive fighting part of the story that every battle big or small always evolves into.
Holders= the units that may not be your best front line preformers, but having them around compliments the capabilities of that platoons preformance in the boundries set for them near the back.
Keepers = the units inside a particular platoons perimeter that keep their eyes on the condition of the boundry,what units have passes threw that perimeter and whether any area of the boundry can be expanded/advance,or resinded/withdrawn.keepers also assist the slammers in perimeter containment.
I'm mearly a canadian corpral in the north saskatchewan regiment from80-94 retiring from injuries incured in active service in somalia 93. living in saskatoon now.
ANd no MY tanks in the marine campaign played the japs game of having a recce or asslt team riding them up to a contact point determined by the sniffers{ refer to earlier post}and disgourging some smashers or slammers,,
A better gruntlike description of terms:
Sniffers/Lookers= recon units who don't nessassarily see the enemy but threw knowledge of the terrain/cover requirments of their following force and lack of heavy fire power DON"T run directly up the enemies predicted boundries and approach path in plain view and and anounce their presents. they are the pathfinders so to speak because they pay attention to the PATHS you and the enemy have to cross to fight.They are who tells your local platoon where to entrench, and which direction your platoon should fall back to.
These are two seperate catigory of units for function perposes only because their all fighting units {gunny has trouble timing the differant branches} Lookers = the recon resources that you have directly outfront looking for the physical enemy.
When a looker SEES an enemy unit his job is to assess the unit type,threat to the following forces and most of all determine their direction and composition of travel, lookers also try not to be seen themselves and only usually fight defensivly,they will usually also be the ones in touch with the HQ and FO and sometimes radioing to the sniffers to tell them which direction to prepare the platoon and other arriving units for firing,setting ranges and fields of fire,precoordinating Arrty grids.
Smashers/slammers,again not to be confused or combined in the dortrinal preformance
Smashing units are any that may be a little slower in their arrival to the opperating area but make up for it by having enough firepower to stand alone on any part of the battlefield that the sniffers and lookers deem suitable for them to set up to support their platoon.smashing units are the midsize squads or vehicles that can provide heavy,but short term volume fire of middle to heavy calibres to allow the slammers holders and keepers the fluidness of stopping up any holes that develop in the platoons boundries.
Slammers are the liquid assets that dig a foxhole where the sniffers and lookers told them the rear boundry for their section is,but them are mobile inside this boundry to Slam any infiltrators or breaches back infront of the smashers.
And finally the Holders and the keepers again two differant tasks but still a cohesive fighting part of the story that every battle big or small always evolves into.
Holders= the units that may not be your best front line preformers, but having them around compliments the capabilities of that platoons preformance in the boundries set for them near the back.
Keepers = the units inside a particular platoons perimeter that keep their eyes on the condition of the boundry,what units have passes threw that perimeter and whether any area of the boundry can be expanded/advance,or resinded/withdrawn.keepers also assist the slammers in perimeter containment.
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
In the fights Gunny has shown me he uses everyone like smashers {the Marines really were YA know[&o]} and I was just poking fun on him for this. TWOTRIBES i'm really suprized that I came across badly and hope you feel free to slap me somemore[:D] but please include some of your formation building exploits and devulge some playing expertice with the smattering you give me!!
And do u provide towels??[;)] RT
And do u provide towels??[;)] RT
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
I dont play the Marines much, absolutely hate the intial terrain.
I prefer the germans, but sice Enhanced has comeout I have only gotten to 3 battles ona long campaign. Been doing something else. I prefer the germans, starting in 39.
I buy 3 companies of Panzers, 2 companies of motorized SS Infantry and support. The support is different depending on what is avaialble in the version I am playing. I have never finished a long campaign but I did get to early 44 once.
I prefer the germans, but sice Enhanced has comeout I have only gotten to 3 battles ona long campaign. Been doing something else. I prefer the germans, starting in 39.
I buy 3 companies of Panzers, 2 companies of motorized SS Infantry and support. The support is different depending on what is avaialble in the version I am playing. I have never finished a long campaign but I did get to early 44 once.
Favoritism is alive and well here.
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Hey twotribes what was your favorite german unit? any particular year don't matter.
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Guys, here's the response to a few questions I posed to an Iwo Jima veteran (for Riun, I use CAPS in a couple of instances -- you'll know why):
(Quote)
I landed as a replacement, so I was armed with the M-1. We were in a shore party run by the Pioneers. They were armed with all the usual personal weapons, except there were no BARs on the beach. (At least not in the shore party)
Yes, the hand held flame thrower was a company weapon and available during the initial assault. I am not sure, but I don't believe the flame thrower was used much in those first 90 minutes, but it was put to use in the mop-up.
The tanks landed on Red Beach at 1145 on D-Day and made their way down to Green Beach. Incidentally, I was working on Red Beach and saw them flounder ashore. Five of the tanks making their way to Green Beach hit LAND MINES and were put out of action. During those first few days the tanks had difficulty in finding a safe place to refuel and do maintenance work. I haven't seen the statistics, but I understand very few tank crews were lost on Iwo.
The tank was the favorite close support weapon of the assault troops, even though the presence of a tank usually meant a concentration of mortar fire. Our biggest problem with the tank was that they were unable to keep pace with us, and often were not there when we needed them. Because of the rugged terrain and LAND MINES, their forward movement was slow. When we encountered a stuborn pillbox, blockhouse or large cave, a Marine would make his way to the external phone of a tank and a second Marine would position himself in the vicinity of the target. Usually standing above the target, the second Marine would direct the Marine on the phone while he talked the tank into firing position. We made extensive use of both the flame and 75mm tanks.
My personal experiences with the tanks weren't too good. Once after directing a tank into firing position, I found myself dodging a rain of burning napalm blobs. On another occasion I found myself the target of a tank and his 75.
_________________
Bob Allen
B128
Author of "First Battallion of the 28th Marines on Iwo Jima"
(end quote)
Well, I learned some things with this. Mines DO have a place in the Pacific, but, as I mentioned elsewhere, they weren't used en masse. From what Mr. Allen has stated, I think they were placed sporadically, with the specific intention of disabling US AFVs. Obviously, the Japanese had some success at this. SO, I suppose I have no choice but to turn mines "on" when playing a Marine campaign.
(Quote)
I landed as a replacement, so I was armed with the M-1. We were in a shore party run by the Pioneers. They were armed with all the usual personal weapons, except there were no BARs on the beach. (At least not in the shore party)
Yes, the hand held flame thrower was a company weapon and available during the initial assault. I am not sure, but I don't believe the flame thrower was used much in those first 90 minutes, but it was put to use in the mop-up.
The tanks landed on Red Beach at 1145 on D-Day and made their way down to Green Beach. Incidentally, I was working on Red Beach and saw them flounder ashore. Five of the tanks making their way to Green Beach hit LAND MINES and were put out of action. During those first few days the tanks had difficulty in finding a safe place to refuel and do maintenance work. I haven't seen the statistics, but I understand very few tank crews were lost on Iwo.
The tank was the favorite close support weapon of the assault troops, even though the presence of a tank usually meant a concentration of mortar fire. Our biggest problem with the tank was that they were unable to keep pace with us, and often were not there when we needed them. Because of the rugged terrain and LAND MINES, their forward movement was slow. When we encountered a stuborn pillbox, blockhouse or large cave, a Marine would make his way to the external phone of a tank and a second Marine would position himself in the vicinity of the target. Usually standing above the target, the second Marine would direct the Marine on the phone while he talked the tank into firing position. We made extensive use of both the flame and 75mm tanks.
My personal experiences with the tanks weren't too good. Once after directing a tank into firing position, I found myself dodging a rain of burning napalm blobs. On another occasion I found myself the target of a tank and his 75.
_________________
Bob Allen
B128
Author of "First Battallion of the 28th Marines on Iwo Jima"
(end quote)
Well, I learned some things with this. Mines DO have a place in the Pacific, but, as I mentioned elsewhere, they weren't used en masse. From what Mr. Allen has stated, I think they were placed sporadically, with the specific intention of disabling US AFVs. Obviously, the Japanese had some success at this. SO, I suppose I have no choice but to turn mines "on" when playing a Marine campaign.
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
sounds good to me gunny and I'm not saying that "like I told you SO" either, I'm like u in the area of improving this community and the support and education all its contributers provide, do you get my terms and how they relate to the game???[&:]
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Yeah, I understand your terminology, but hearing the terms "sniffers" and "smashers" and all that is unfamiliar to me. Is that Canadian jargon? I think it's cool in it's own way, but I don't think you'd ever hear an American Marine using that sort of banter. [;)]
Similarly,have you ever heard a Canadian call a helmet "A brain-housing group cover"? [:D]
BTW, I sent you an e-mail.
Similarly,have you ever heard a Canadian call a helmet "A brain-housing group cover"? [:D]
BTW, I sent you an e-mail.
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Hey glen,thats straight outta my sargent majors, mouth at royal roads military college in victoria BC and he was a noofy GO figure!! and I didn't see your e-mail yet but we have to talk more on strats anyways.RT helmets also called skidlids
SGT major also said he uses that terminaligy because we're all as applicants for the armed forces, STUPID as 7 yearolds and muck lickers and Limpdicks and needed his simplification for education. now drop and give me 20 TROOP!!! RT[;)]
SGT major also said he uses that terminaligy because we're all as applicants for the armed forces, STUPID as 7 yearolds and muck lickers and Limpdicks and needed his simplification for education. now drop and give me 20 TROOP!!! RT[;)]
RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
New campaign, first battle. August 14, 1942. The 1/5 Battalion has a 3000 yd front to defend, and is spread somewhat thin, but the terrain favors me and I have a couple of killing zones set up.
Not much activity on the right flank. This is a shot from turn 10:
Not much activity on the right flank. This is a shot from turn 10:
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RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
The enemy's main effort is on the left, where the line doglegs.
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RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
On the far left, I have a rifle platoon and a section of engineers poised to take the attackers in flank. Note that a have a platoon of M2A4s ready to move south and support the counterattack.
Still too early, though, as the enemy assault has yet to fully develop and hopefully spend itself.
Still too early, though, as the enemy assault has yet to fully develop and hopefully spend itself.
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RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Turn 11. Whoa -- things are heating up on the left.
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RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Turn 13. Holy sh*t -- here they come, straight at Charlie Company. Didn't I see something like this in "Platoon"? [X(]
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RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Here's why I love my mortars -- Ok, Mr. Moto, come GET some. 
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RE: Here's the Thing About Long Campaigns
Turn 15. Don't these sonsab*tches ever run out of ammo, or men? I've expended all of my 105 rounds.
The Japanese are within a few hundred yards of Battalion HQ. Lt Col Higginbotham has one message to Baker Co: "Keep calm, and for God's sakes, keep firing!"
The Japanese are within a few hundred yards of Battalion HQ. Lt Col Higginbotham has one message to Baker Co: "Keep calm, and for God's sakes, keep firing!"
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