Had some major reading to catch up but overall your looking good BG, looking forward to what your going to do on your winter offensive. [;)]
Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
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CarnageINC
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Richard III
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
I've just sent last 1941 Mud turn to Q-Ball. I haven't bothered with updating the AAR, since all I've been doing has been to implement the plan I outlined at turn 17.
This turn he's done some recon. He found one of the Shock Armies, and I've moved it further east. He also was very curious about what I'm doing around Kerch. Moved around some units to confuse him.
Regarding his dispositions... well, I don't see his motorized units in position for trying major encirclements. He'll perhaps strike through Kalinin and Torzhok, and he's also in position on the Donets basin.
On my behalf, I have greatly reinforced the Rostov - Voroshilovgrad area. I actually want him to strike. I've also reinforced the Moscow defenses, both in the center and flanks. I've left a "gap" south of Tula, but that's meant to be a trap. Let's see if I don't get caught on my own trap.
Brilliant AAR, and well written. It also seems both of you are trying for somewhat realistic tactics ( no killer stacks of Pz Div`s. or massed Cossack Cav. dashes into their rear ) Most useful to see the thinking behind your actions for this aspiring, probably masochistic [8D] Red Army player. FWIW, I loved the old Atomic Games system,sleepy AI and all, especially Stalingrad and the colored supply traces which were an elegant solution that wargame Devs should have given more use.
Hoping for a Happy Ending Comrade [;)]
“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”
¯ Leo Tolstoy
¯ Leo Tolstoy
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BletchleyGeek
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: Richard III
Brilliant AAR, and well written. It also seems both of you are trying for somewhat realistic tactics ( no killer stacks of Pz Div`s. or massed Cossack Cav. dashes into their rear ) Most useful to see the thinking behind your actions for this aspiring, probably masochistic [8D] Red Army player.
Yeah, mostly. Q-Ball has been using the excellent German mobility to wreak havoc in my rear and then going back to the home base. It's a bit like the Cossacks thingie you mention, replacing them with Huns and horses with PzIII
But it's fair game, actually. When/if I'm able to, I'll be doing some nice hex art in his rear as well ORIGINAL: Richard III
FWIW, I loved the old Atomic Games system,sleepy AI and all, especially Stalingrad and the colored supply traces which were an elegant solution that wargame Devs should have given more use.
Yeah, very elegant, and it's one of the hallmarks of the series (in my opinion). It offered a streamlined interface for prioritizing supply, and it was probably one of the most important bits of the game. Actually, I've always wondered what was going under the hood in the WaW engine. Under the apparent abstraction there was quite some detailed simulation going on.
ORIGINAL: Richard III
Hoping for a Happy Ending Comrade [;)]
Me too. This is the most realistic WitE game I've had so far, if not in the process itself, in the overall situation. I think there's some need to work to get it a "historical" pace - a supply system where the carrying capacity was so limited as it was on WaW would be definitely a step in the right direction.
Compared with WitE, WaW was a real b*tch when it came to keep an offensive going on for extended periods of time. It's also true that its time scale was far more fine-grained that that of WitE, but still.
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BletchleyGeek
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Turn 22 – 13 November 1941
The snows start to fall in Russia, and the Axis armies maneuver for position. Q-Ball has launched major operations in four different sectors of the front: one of them anticipated, the other two have caught me a bit off guard. There have been 52 battles fought during the Axis turn, 90% of them going over to the attacker. Of the 47 victories won by Q-Ball's armies, 20 have been routs, big routs.
Operational Situation Report
The 18. Armee, supported by the LVI. PzKorps, has delivered a powerful strike right at the joint of Northern and Northwestern Front
[center]
[/center]
In the gap there was Northwestern Front 27th Army, that has been completely routed by the German assault, all seven divisions in it. I am very thin in the north, since I opted to take away two strong armies from the line here to bolster Moscow defenses, and now I'm paying for that decision.
I was expecting 16. Armee to march against Torzhok and Kalinin, and it has complied
[center]
[/center]
Those two PzDivs have really driven a wedge through the lines of Northwestern Front 8th Army. I was in the process of reinforcing this sector – the units you can see in the picture under the STAVKA – but I was a turn late. Note that he's occupying the terrain he wrested from me with Infantry regiments. I think his goal here was to eliminate the bridghead I had west of the Tveritsa river, but seeing the success he had further north, he might get greedy.
4 Armee, backed up by a PzKorps which didn't intervene, has launched a couple attacks northeast of Tula
[center]
[/center]
this most certainly it's him maneuvering for position and removing my units from his HKL, which badly needs some build up. I'm going to strike this German infantry, it looks weak and it's on the open. Maybe it's time for the 3rd Army – which has been concentrating to the east around Ryazan – to get onto the line and shorten the frontage of the Bryansk Front, which it's excessive.
The German armies tries to flank my defenses around Voronezh, or so it seems
[center]
[/center]
actually, I don't think he's trying anything that ambitious. The southern German grouping wasn't really aiming in the right direction. The victims here have been 50th Army in the north and 26th Army in the south. While the former was quite weak, the latter wasn't.
Looking at the combats, and discussing it with Q-Ball over e-mail, I think we're seeing a pattern that will repeat quite often in 1942: soviet units with “acceptable” morale and less than stellar TOEs being crushed by a German deliberate attack and routing. In all the cases I've checked this has been what has happened. Routing happens whenever the defender final modified CV is N times smaller than the attacker final modified CV, where N stands for the unit morale. It's not a big shot that the final CV's in these combats were outrageous stuff as 100 to 1 or so, moreso being deliberate attacks.
In the south, the 1. PzGruppe has inflicted a heavy blow on the Southern Front forces, pushing my forces back almost everywhere:
[center]
[/center]
He really wants to increase those fort levels by not having my troops adjacent to them (there's a 80% reduction in Construction value when enemy units are adjacent). Should I remain passive here?
Losses on me have been really tough this turn, I count something like 100,000 casualties, including almost 40,000 prisoners. It's not been light either for Q-Ball, he suffered something like 20,000 casualties, a five to one ratio in his favor. In the air there's parity in losses, the Luftwaffe has lost 25 bombers and 23 recon planes, most of them in air combat, while the VVS has suffered similar losses, mostly obsolete fighters. That's the only bright spot this turn.
Logistics and Organization
A few things to note here.
After a lot of micromanaging, I'm being able to keep Red Army Rifle formations strength levels mostly above 50%. This has gone beyond capping the TOE's and, each turn, adjusting Refit status on the Commander's Report. The implication of this is that I've got most of my units with TOE's ranging between 60 and 70, and that, combined with the Morale, means that some armies might find their attached units to be very brittle. We've seen part of that this turn.
Another thing to note is that after having lost only 15% of the pre-war Armaments production, I'm able to field each turn just about 120,000 men. This is much less, actually half, of what I was used to. It has some subtle, far reaching strategic consequences. Turns like the current one wouldn't be half as bad in 1.04, in 1.05 this turn has meant that I've lost one entire turn of preparation and build up. If preparation was always important, now it's not only important, it's also difficult to achieve. One needs to plan well ahead and work hard to have well prepared strike formations, one can't take them for granted. Obviously, one needs to be cautious about trashing them just for the sake of it.
I see myself on a way towards a two-tiered Red Army. The Strike tier, with good experience, not bad morale and well equipped, and the Cannon Fodder tier, lacking to a varying degree in these three aspects.
How are my strike formations coming along? Well, let me introduce you to 1st Shock Army, commanded by I. Konev:
[center]
[/center]
There quite a few powerful units there, and I have still to assign to it the artillery support. I really expect this Army to live up to its name and become a nasty shock for the Germans.
Operations
I've launched a total of 10 local attacks, focusing on those German infantry units that were exposing too many hexsides to my forces and in the open. The Red Army forces have met success in 8 occasions, which is not bad. In the casualties department, I've got a 1:2 exchange favoring the Axis, which is not too bad, though tank losses have been heavy: 91 permanent losses.
The Air war continues as I've been pursuing the last six or seven turns, bombing HQ's with high detection level and the odd sweep over German airfields. One of the sweeps this turn has turned out quite badly, losing 22 planes in air combat, damn.
I've tried to patch up as well as I could the holes that this turn German offensives have torn on my line. In the far north, the situation is totally pants
[center]
[/center]
Some Northern Front reinforcements have rushed to the area, and the reinforcements I was taking to this sector just arrived, but lacked enough MP's to deploy properly. A few good units here.
I rush into the Lipetsk – Voronezh gap the newly formed 61st Army, under the Southern Ural Military District
[center]
[/center]
Fortunately I had a few units east of Tambov, training and refitting. Phew. South of Voronezh I put a much less credible show
[center]
[/center]
but it should held together long enough, as more reinforcements are on their way. In the Rostov – Voroshilovgrad area I dare the 1. PzGruppe to hit again Southern Front units. On the left flank, I just can't. 9th Army – just northeast of Rostov – got really roughed up by German attacks.
[center]
[/center]
The white hell that the Russian winter is has just started to get hotter!
The snows start to fall in Russia, and the Axis armies maneuver for position. Q-Ball has launched major operations in four different sectors of the front: one of them anticipated, the other two have caught me a bit off guard. There have been 52 battles fought during the Axis turn, 90% of them going over to the attacker. Of the 47 victories won by Q-Ball's armies, 20 have been routs, big routs.
Operational Situation Report
The 18. Armee, supported by the LVI. PzKorps, has delivered a powerful strike right at the joint of Northern and Northwestern Front
[center]
[/center]In the gap there was Northwestern Front 27th Army, that has been completely routed by the German assault, all seven divisions in it. I am very thin in the north, since I opted to take away two strong armies from the line here to bolster Moscow defenses, and now I'm paying for that decision.
I was expecting 16. Armee to march against Torzhok and Kalinin, and it has complied
[center]
[/center]Those two PzDivs have really driven a wedge through the lines of Northwestern Front 8th Army. I was in the process of reinforcing this sector – the units you can see in the picture under the STAVKA – but I was a turn late. Note that he's occupying the terrain he wrested from me with Infantry regiments. I think his goal here was to eliminate the bridghead I had west of the Tveritsa river, but seeing the success he had further north, he might get greedy.
4 Armee, backed up by a PzKorps which didn't intervene, has launched a couple attacks northeast of Tula
[center]
[/center]this most certainly it's him maneuvering for position and removing my units from his HKL, which badly needs some build up. I'm going to strike this German infantry, it looks weak and it's on the open. Maybe it's time for the 3rd Army – which has been concentrating to the east around Ryazan – to get onto the line and shorten the frontage of the Bryansk Front, which it's excessive.
The German armies tries to flank my defenses around Voronezh, or so it seems
[center]
[/center]actually, I don't think he's trying anything that ambitious. The southern German grouping wasn't really aiming in the right direction. The victims here have been 50th Army in the north and 26th Army in the south. While the former was quite weak, the latter wasn't.
Looking at the combats, and discussing it with Q-Ball over e-mail, I think we're seeing a pattern that will repeat quite often in 1942: soviet units with “acceptable” morale and less than stellar TOEs being crushed by a German deliberate attack and routing. In all the cases I've checked this has been what has happened. Routing happens whenever the defender final modified CV is N times smaller than the attacker final modified CV, where N stands for the unit morale. It's not a big shot that the final CV's in these combats were outrageous stuff as 100 to 1 or so, moreso being deliberate attacks.
In the south, the 1. PzGruppe has inflicted a heavy blow on the Southern Front forces, pushing my forces back almost everywhere:
[center]
[/center]He really wants to increase those fort levels by not having my troops adjacent to them (there's a 80% reduction in Construction value when enemy units are adjacent). Should I remain passive here?
Losses on me have been really tough this turn, I count something like 100,000 casualties, including almost 40,000 prisoners. It's not been light either for Q-Ball, he suffered something like 20,000 casualties, a five to one ratio in his favor. In the air there's parity in losses, the Luftwaffe has lost 25 bombers and 23 recon planes, most of them in air combat, while the VVS has suffered similar losses, mostly obsolete fighters. That's the only bright spot this turn.
Logistics and Organization
A few things to note here.
After a lot of micromanaging, I'm being able to keep Red Army Rifle formations strength levels mostly above 50%. This has gone beyond capping the TOE's and, each turn, adjusting Refit status on the Commander's Report. The implication of this is that I've got most of my units with TOE's ranging between 60 and 70, and that, combined with the Morale, means that some armies might find their attached units to be very brittle. We've seen part of that this turn.
Another thing to note is that after having lost only 15% of the pre-war Armaments production, I'm able to field each turn just about 120,000 men. This is much less, actually half, of what I was used to. It has some subtle, far reaching strategic consequences. Turns like the current one wouldn't be half as bad in 1.04, in 1.05 this turn has meant that I've lost one entire turn of preparation and build up. If preparation was always important, now it's not only important, it's also difficult to achieve. One needs to plan well ahead and work hard to have well prepared strike formations, one can't take them for granted. Obviously, one needs to be cautious about trashing them just for the sake of it.
I see myself on a way towards a two-tiered Red Army. The Strike tier, with good experience, not bad morale and well equipped, and the Cannon Fodder tier, lacking to a varying degree in these three aspects.
How are my strike formations coming along? Well, let me introduce you to 1st Shock Army, commanded by I. Konev:
[center]
[/center]There quite a few powerful units there, and I have still to assign to it the artillery support. I really expect this Army to live up to its name and become a nasty shock for the Germans.
Operations
I've launched a total of 10 local attacks, focusing on those German infantry units that were exposing too many hexsides to my forces and in the open. The Red Army forces have met success in 8 occasions, which is not bad. In the casualties department, I've got a 1:2 exchange favoring the Axis, which is not too bad, though tank losses have been heavy: 91 permanent losses.
The Air war continues as I've been pursuing the last six or seven turns, bombing HQ's with high detection level and the odd sweep over German airfields. One of the sweeps this turn has turned out quite badly, losing 22 planes in air combat, damn.
I've tried to patch up as well as I could the holes that this turn German offensives have torn on my line. In the far north, the situation is totally pants
[center]
[/center]Some Northern Front reinforcements have rushed to the area, and the reinforcements I was taking to this sector just arrived, but lacked enough MP's to deploy properly. A few good units here.
I rush into the Lipetsk – Voronezh gap the newly formed 61st Army, under the Southern Ural Military District
[center]
[/center]Fortunately I had a few units east of Tambov, training and refitting. Phew. South of Voronezh I put a much less credible show
[center]
[/center]but it should held together long enough, as more reinforcements are on their way. In the Rostov – Voroshilovgrad area I dare the 1. PzGruppe to hit again Southern Front units. On the left flank, I just can't. 9th Army – just northeast of Rostov – got really roughed up by German attacks.
[center]
[/center]The white hell that the Russian winter is has just started to get hotter!
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BletchleyGeek
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Turn 23 – 20 November 1941
Q-Ball is making quite an effort to keep my forces away from his winter defense lines, while having some good fun with my units. He's just launched 29 attacks, and got away with victory in the 86% of them. Soviet units have behaved a bit more steadily this turn, but not really. I must admit I'm not really happy seeing that I'm unable to avoid him imposing his will on me.
I've noticed something weird in the air battles: only fighters have been flying ground support for the Axis units this turn. Perhaps Q-Ball is reorganizing his bomber forces.
Operational Situation Report
LVI PzKorps keeps having some fun northeast of Vishny Volochek and has invited his Finnish friends to tag along for drinks and cheap laughs:
[center]
[/center]
I'll have some work to do here to organize things. I really hate seeing my guys being handled as a ragdoll in the jaws of a tiger.
AGC keeps laminating my lines in front of Moscow, taking away the forts I had built there with so much effort
[center]
[/center]
Nonetheless my guys have put up some fight. I guess Q-Ball next target will be the 4th level Fort in the middle of the picture. It's really hard to generate good odds in this sector, and I don't see how to take off some pressure from them.
German forces have taken revenge on the restless Bryansk Front troops, trying to restore their lines
[center]
[/center]
He's brought a PzDiv here to keep me honest. If I didn't know it is impossible, I would swear I can see that PanzerDiv troops raising a sign saying “Attack at your own risk”. He'll need more than that to intimidate me
The motorized formations that drove me back north of Voronezh have retreated. Possibly Q-Ball didn't see here any easy pickings
[center]
[/center]
which he indeed saw south of Voronezh
[center]
[/center]
Q-Ball really hates me attacking his infantry, and punishes Southern Front for not sitting on the corner when asked
[center]
[/center]
Looking at this Front I can't help remembering this chorus
[center]It's the eye of the tiger, it's the cream of the fight
Risin' up to the challenge of our rival
And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night
And he's watchin' us all in the eye of the tiger [/center]
YARRR! Now I feel like running five miles up a hill covered by six feet of snow and punching the tiger sitting at the top in the face, YARRR!
Very much like Rocky Balboa, the Red Army NEVER, EVER gives up. But I think to let this round we're going for the ropes and pretend we're worse than it seems (we actually are, so it's not that difficult).
To further compone things, I did something dumb last turn. I forgot about the stack west of Kerch
[center]
[/center]
and my divisions got punched in the face by the German infantry. However, I've learnt something. Notice the HQ (or airbase) sitting on Feodosiya. Q-Ball only has three German divisions in the Crimea.
More to come tomorrow. It's about midnight, I've got the back of the neck stiff after a long day sitting in front of a computer, and I don't feel like solving the problems Q-Ball moves entail.
Q-Ball is making quite an effort to keep my forces away from his winter defense lines, while having some good fun with my units. He's just launched 29 attacks, and got away with victory in the 86% of them. Soviet units have behaved a bit more steadily this turn, but not really. I must admit I'm not really happy seeing that I'm unable to avoid him imposing his will on me.
I've noticed something weird in the air battles: only fighters have been flying ground support for the Axis units this turn. Perhaps Q-Ball is reorganizing his bomber forces.
Operational Situation Report
LVI PzKorps keeps having some fun northeast of Vishny Volochek and has invited his Finnish friends to tag along for drinks and cheap laughs:
[center]
[/center]I'll have some work to do here to organize things. I really hate seeing my guys being handled as a ragdoll in the jaws of a tiger.
AGC keeps laminating my lines in front of Moscow, taking away the forts I had built there with so much effort
[center]
[/center]Nonetheless my guys have put up some fight. I guess Q-Ball next target will be the 4th level Fort in the middle of the picture. It's really hard to generate good odds in this sector, and I don't see how to take off some pressure from them.
German forces have taken revenge on the restless Bryansk Front troops, trying to restore their lines
[center]
[/center]He's brought a PzDiv here to keep me honest. If I didn't know it is impossible, I would swear I can see that PanzerDiv troops raising a sign saying “Attack at your own risk”. He'll need more than that to intimidate me
The motorized formations that drove me back north of Voronezh have retreated. Possibly Q-Ball didn't see here any easy pickings
[center]
[/center]which he indeed saw south of Voronezh
[center]
[/center]Q-Ball really hates me attacking his infantry, and punishes Southern Front for not sitting on the corner when asked
[center]
[/center]Looking at this Front I can't help remembering this chorus
[center]It's the eye of the tiger, it's the cream of the fight
Risin' up to the challenge of our rival
And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night
And he's watchin' us all in the eye of the tiger [/center]
YARRR! Now I feel like running five miles up a hill covered by six feet of snow and punching the tiger sitting at the top in the face, YARRR!
Very much like Rocky Balboa, the Red Army NEVER, EVER gives up. But I think to let this round we're going for the ropes and pretend we're worse than it seems (we actually are, so it's not that difficult).
To further compone things, I did something dumb last turn. I forgot about the stack west of Kerch
[center]
[/center]and my divisions got punched in the face by the German infantry. However, I've learnt something. Notice the HQ (or airbase) sitting on Feodosiya. Q-Ball only has three German divisions in the Crimea.
More to come tomorrow. It's about midnight, I've got the back of the neck stiff after a long day sitting in front of a computer, and I don't feel like solving the problems Q-Ball moves entail.
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Once Blizzard starts You need to move Your troops out of quiet areas and form Your units in 4-5 groups (one per active front). Ignore flanks (leave only shallow screen - divisions every other hex to inflict attrition), push forward at steady pace at relatively narrow corridor (4-5 hexes wide) and let him worry. Trick is not to burn out troops (especially cavalry) while advancing 1,5 hexes per turn. Once Germans are in open herding can begin and different tactics will have to be employed.
Sounds stupid but it might not be as stupid as it sounds. [;)]
Sounds stupid but it might not be as stupid as it sounds. [;)]
Kamil
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Doesn't sound stupid, at all. It is sound advice. Focused Mass, and Momentum, to break the lines. Then, when the fort/terrain lines are compromised, you Maneuver. The Three M's. During the blizzard, the Axis troops become utter pansies when either trying to attack, or defend. Plus you have movement benefits, vis-a-vis the Axis, in that the costs for entering enemy terrain are halved. Once you can crack even relatively small sections of the front, then you can often pry the Axis player out of his remaining forts by imposing a significant enough threat. This voluntary displacement, though not as gratifying as surrounding and capturing the Huns, still has the same effect of liberating Mother Russia from the Fascist Invaders!ORIGINAL: Kamil
Once Blizzard starts You need to move Your troops out of quiet areas and form Your units in 4-5 groups (one per active front). Ignore flanks (leave only shallow screen - divisions every other hex to inflict attrition), push forward at steady pace at relatively narrow corridor (4-5 hexes wide) and let him worry. Trick is not to burn out troops (especially cavalry) while advancing 1,5 hexes per turn. Once Germans are in open herding can begin and different tactics will have to be employed.
Sounds stupid but it might not be as stupid as it sounds. [;)]
Sorry, got a little carried away there. Trying to get into the mood to play out my Soviet turn against PDH...[;)]
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BletchleyGeek
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
No, not stupid at all Kamil. That's the way to go in the offensive with any of the two sides.
I just need to decide what are going to be the objectives for December and the axis to reach them. I will do the analysis in the evening and decide where to commit. I've been keeping a general defensive disposition to keep Q-Ball in the dark the longest about my intentions. There's no point in concentrating and allowing him plenty of time to observe that concentration and figure out what I'm after.
I just need to decide what are going to be the objectives for December and the axis to reach them. I will do the analysis in the evening and decide where to commit. I've been keeping a general defensive disposition to keep Q-Ball in the dark the longest about my intentions. There's no point in concentrating and allowing him plenty of time to observe that concentration and figure out what I'm after.
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BletchleyGeek
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
Doesn't sound stupid, at all. It is sound advice. Focused Mass, and Momentum, to break the lines. Then, when the fort/terrain lines are compromised, you Maneuver. The Three M's. During the blizzard, the Axis troops become utter pansies when either trying to attack, or defend. Plus you have movement benefits, vis-a-vis the Axis, in that the costs for entering enemy terrain are halved. Once you can crack even relatively small sections of the front, then you can often pry the Axis player out of his remaining forts by imposing a significant enough threat. This voluntary displacement, though not as gratifying as surrounding and capturing the Huns, still has the same effect of liberating Mother Russia from the Fascist Invaders!
Precisely. That's how I've played out in the last two 1941 GC's where I've gone through blizzard. It's also cheaper [:)]
ORIGINAL: JaMiaM
Sorry, got a little carried away there. Trying to get into the mood to play out my Soviet turn against PDH...[;)]
Think of Rocky movies montage just before the final fight
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BletchleyGeek
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Operations
I just managed to launch 4 attacks with good odds, 3 of them succesful. Besides that, I've moved 1st Shock Army to Ryazan, replacing the 3rd Army there, which has joined the line. This should shadow the presence of this key formation.
On the far north, I've come to realize that Q-Ball is luring me to overcommit there. I don't really have any interest in fighting up there, none at all. So I retreat part of the good troops I had brought up there and deploy them to prepare for offensive operations further south.
[center]
[/center]
If he wants those forests, he's my guest to take them.
Since the snows came, my air operations have been much less successful than usual, even during mud turns. This might be in part because of Q-Ball having organized his Luftwaffe differently, since the health of my Air Groups is really good. Out of 245 Fighter Bomber Regiments, over 200 have Morale of 66 or better, and about 80 have Experience of 66 or better. Level Bomber Regiments morale is incredible: the one with the least morale is 79. Where I'm not happy at all is with the Tactical Bomber regiments. There are too few of them, and are dominated by U-2's. I'm really hurting because of having lost so much IL-2 production.
Planning December Operations
It's about time to do this. I've pretty much decided where to make my main effort during December: the Tula – Voronezh sector
[center]
[/center]
Marked with a 1, you can see the immediate objectives, which I expect to have secured by turn 26 or 27. Marked with a 2, you can see the intermediate objectives, whose importance is mostly for securing the last leap, the strategic objectives, marked with 3. I think it's not far-fetched that intermediate objectives are secured by the second half of January. Strategic objectives are probably a bit unreal, specially Orel. The push for Kaluga concept is to become an attrition battle, to pin as much German forces as possible by mounting a credible threat.
I don't plan to commit heavily just in front of Moscow, but I really do want to try and push for Rzhev
[center]
[/center]
This will also be a positional battle, with very little maneuver, if at all. It'll be more about juggling units to achieve decisive odds in selected places, and slowly grind down 16. Armee and the 3. PzArmee.
South of Voronezh operations will be much more limited. First and foremost, I need to evict the Germans from his positions along the Tikhnaya Sosna and advance towards the Valyuiki rail junction:
[center]
[/center]
This operation will be the task of Southwestern Front. Valyuiki is quite important, since through it goes the fastest rail connection between AGS and AGC right flank. I am not still entirely sure what to do in the Donbass, but it should be something like this:
[center]
[/center]
The extent of the operations in the Donbass will be dictated by the success, or lack of it, in the Tula – Voronezh sector. If things go south with that, 3rd and 4th Shock Armies will be deployed here, fleshed with the Transcaucasus Front troops that get released early in January.
I just managed to launch 4 attacks with good odds, 3 of them succesful. Besides that, I've moved 1st Shock Army to Ryazan, replacing the 3rd Army there, which has joined the line. This should shadow the presence of this key formation.
On the far north, I've come to realize that Q-Ball is luring me to overcommit there. I don't really have any interest in fighting up there, none at all. So I retreat part of the good troops I had brought up there and deploy them to prepare for offensive operations further south.
[center]
[/center]If he wants those forests, he's my guest to take them.
Since the snows came, my air operations have been much less successful than usual, even during mud turns. This might be in part because of Q-Ball having organized his Luftwaffe differently, since the health of my Air Groups is really good. Out of 245 Fighter Bomber Regiments, over 200 have Morale of 66 or better, and about 80 have Experience of 66 or better. Level Bomber Regiments morale is incredible: the one with the least morale is 79. Where I'm not happy at all is with the Tactical Bomber regiments. There are too few of them, and are dominated by U-2's. I'm really hurting because of having lost so much IL-2 production.
Planning December Operations
It's about time to do this. I've pretty much decided where to make my main effort during December: the Tula – Voronezh sector
[center]
[/center]Marked with a 1, you can see the immediate objectives, which I expect to have secured by turn 26 or 27. Marked with a 2, you can see the intermediate objectives, whose importance is mostly for securing the last leap, the strategic objectives, marked with 3. I think it's not far-fetched that intermediate objectives are secured by the second half of January. Strategic objectives are probably a bit unreal, specially Orel. The push for Kaluga concept is to become an attrition battle, to pin as much German forces as possible by mounting a credible threat.
I don't plan to commit heavily just in front of Moscow, but I really do want to try and push for Rzhev
[center]
[/center]This will also be a positional battle, with very little maneuver, if at all. It'll be more about juggling units to achieve decisive odds in selected places, and slowly grind down 16. Armee and the 3. PzArmee.
South of Voronezh operations will be much more limited. First and foremost, I need to evict the Germans from his positions along the Tikhnaya Sosna and advance towards the Valyuiki rail junction:
[center]
[/center]This operation will be the task of Southwestern Front. Valyuiki is quite important, since through it goes the fastest rail connection between AGS and AGC right flank. I am not still entirely sure what to do in the Donbass, but it should be something like this:
[center]
[/center]The extent of the operations in the Donbass will be dictated by the success, or lack of it, in the Tula – Voronezh sector. If things go south with that, 3rd and 4th Shock Armies will be deployed here, fleshed with the Transcaucasus Front troops that get released early in January.
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BletchleyGeek
- Posts: 4460
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Turn 24 – 27 November 1941
The stage is set for the December 1941 drama. Q-Ball activity has steadily been going down as we have approached December. This turn he's launched just 17 attacks, winning all of them but 2. Most of the attacks purpose have been to either rectify the line to his liking or to push back my forces and make sure he could get some more fort building done.
Operational Situation Report
German-Finnish forces do a final push northeast of Vishny Volochek
[center]
[/center]
the Finnish have suffered about 1,500 casualties in those two attacks. It's likely that he uses the Finns to keep the pressure here, so I have to divert combat formations. But it's a bit like walking a tightrope, if things get serious the Finnish Army might get some serious attrition.
He finishes clearing the bridgehead I had west of the Tveritsa river, just north of Torzhok
[center]
[/center]
if I hadn't attacked, perhaps I would have been able to keep this valuable position. In any case, this area is going to see some heavy fighting in one or two turns.
39th PzKorps smashes the level-4 fort I had just east of Mozhaisk
[center]
[/center]
the battle wasn't as one sided as it would appear at a first quick look. Compare the number of destroyed and damaged elements during Ground combat. This was a really tough fight for the Germans, retreat losses accounting for two thirds of my losses.
South of Voronezh, Q-Ball has attacked and I don't really understand why
[center]
[/center]
those two German infantry divisions are really weak and lie in the direct path of one of my main offensive directions. I'll try to hurt them as much as I can this turn.
Southern Front gets spanked again, but not much
[center]
[/center]
they even managed to repulse one attack, hurrah!
Yet another turn where the only Luftwaffe planes in the air have been recon and fighter airframes.
Logistics & Organization
Everything is under control here. I haven't been able to build much artillery – which is key to bring down Germans – since Rifle formations have suffered substantial losses during these three turns. Armaments and tank production are recovering quickly, though. Units are getting up to strength and the trend of manpower being accumulated is becoming steady at something like 32,000 men per turn. That means I'm fielding something like 88,000 men per turn.
The Red Army has recovered quite well from its all time low in early October
[center]
[/center]
Mud turns and timid Axis offensives during Snow turns makes the Red Army to grow accordingly.
Operations
Time to assemble the forces for the early December strikes. It certainly worries me accumulating too much stuff and giving Q-Ball too much info. I think it's worthwile to limit Red Army concentration for the first turn, and use railroads to commit the forces on that same turn. But well, let's hope the VVS fighters keep those pesky German recon planes with their heads down this turn.
On the other hand, I order the Red Army units to hug his enemies and attack where good odds of success can be obtained. 9 such attacks were launched, 6 of them meeting with success, which costed my guys 3 times as many losses. Sigh.
The stage is set for the December 1941 drama. Q-Ball activity has steadily been going down as we have approached December. This turn he's launched just 17 attacks, winning all of them but 2. Most of the attacks purpose have been to either rectify the line to his liking or to push back my forces and make sure he could get some more fort building done.
Operational Situation Report
German-Finnish forces do a final push northeast of Vishny Volochek
[center]
[/center]the Finnish have suffered about 1,500 casualties in those two attacks. It's likely that he uses the Finns to keep the pressure here, so I have to divert combat formations. But it's a bit like walking a tightrope, if things get serious the Finnish Army might get some serious attrition.
He finishes clearing the bridgehead I had west of the Tveritsa river, just north of Torzhok
[center]
[/center]if I hadn't attacked, perhaps I would have been able to keep this valuable position. In any case, this area is going to see some heavy fighting in one or two turns.
39th PzKorps smashes the level-4 fort I had just east of Mozhaisk
[center]
[/center]the battle wasn't as one sided as it would appear at a first quick look. Compare the number of destroyed and damaged elements during Ground combat. This was a really tough fight for the Germans, retreat losses accounting for two thirds of my losses.
South of Voronezh, Q-Ball has attacked and I don't really understand why
[center]
[/center]those two German infantry divisions are really weak and lie in the direct path of one of my main offensive directions. I'll try to hurt them as much as I can this turn.
Southern Front gets spanked again, but not much
[center]
[/center]they even managed to repulse one attack, hurrah!
Yet another turn where the only Luftwaffe planes in the air have been recon and fighter airframes.
Logistics & Organization
Everything is under control here. I haven't been able to build much artillery – which is key to bring down Germans – since Rifle formations have suffered substantial losses during these three turns. Armaments and tank production are recovering quickly, though. Units are getting up to strength and the trend of manpower being accumulated is becoming steady at something like 32,000 men per turn. That means I'm fielding something like 88,000 men per turn.
The Red Army has recovered quite well from its all time low in early October
[center]
[/center]Mud turns and timid Axis offensives during Snow turns makes the Red Army to grow accordingly.
Operations
Time to assemble the forces for the early December strikes. It certainly worries me accumulating too much stuff and giving Q-Ball too much info. I think it's worthwile to limit Red Army concentration for the first turn, and use railroads to commit the forces on that same turn. But well, let's hope the VVS fighters keep those pesky German recon planes with their heads down this turn.
On the other hand, I order the Red Army units to hug his enemies and attack where good odds of success can be obtained. 9 such attacks were launched, 6 of them meeting with success, which costed my guys 3 times as many losses. Sigh.
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BletchleyGeek
- Posts: 4460
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:01 pm
- Location: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Turn 25 – 4 December 1941
I must admit I left work early today to get the soonest possible my hands on this turn.
Operational Situation Report
The valiant 18. Armee flees to the west. Recon has been extremely ineffective this turn, and I don't know exactly where he's exactly going
[center]
[/center]
Note how the Finnish Army has decided to hug Northern Front positions and menaces with attacking. If the Finns want to play, we'll play.
I wasn't sure if Q-Ball was to retreat to the positions he's been preparing northeast of Rzhev, but seems he wants to dispute the Tveritsa crossing
[center]
[/center]
which I think it's a good idea. The river will shield somewhat his forces, and blocking the path to Rzhev is extremely important for the Axis.
He's also holding fast in front of Moscow
[center]
[/center]
not many chances to make much headway here in December. Mostly nibbling here and there waiting for the situation in the flanks obliging him to reevaluate his positions. In Tula he's only holding fast along the river lines, leaving one hex between his forces and mine in other places
[center]
[/center]
the same pattern repeats south of Voronezh, Q-Ball is going to refuge himself behind the riverlines
[center]
[/center]
He's also retreated slightly in the Voroshilovgrad – Rostov area
[center]
[/center]
here Q-Ball has done something I seldom seen my Axis opponents doing: splitting the Gebirgsjäger divisions to protect the most of the line. This is going to be a tough blizzard, indeed. But in this particular case, it's nice that he put the Gebirgsjäger Regiments just between my main axis of advance. And in the Crimea he felt uncomfortable all of a sudden
[center]
[/center]
Should I cry now “this is not fair, he's not waiting for me to pound him”? Or “the game doesn't allow me enough strategic options”?
Logistics & Organization
This turn I haven't been so lucky with the damaged Armament factories producing something, and less Armament points have been produced. This turn only 75,000 new recruits have been put into the line.
Finally, I get my first Corps
[center]
[/center]
Note the SU package: 1 Tk Bn, 1 AT Rgt, 1 MG-Arty Bn. No sappers into these guys. These aren't shock troops, but mobile troops. I know the merits of this are debatable – in terms of raw CV these are perhaps the most powerful Soviet formations – but I feel I would wasting their real ability, their mobility.
As planned, I build 12 of these guys in the first batch:
[center]
[/center]
Now we're ready to rumble!
Operations
Q-Ball operational retreats haven't thrown off the rails the operations I have laid out on Turn 23. I really want to get to those places, first and foremost. If the German Army feels so generous as not interfering too much, well, thank you OKH! This is a bit like solving the paradox of Achilles and the Turtle, the Red Army being an old, lame Achilles. It's all about the relative speeds.
The Torzhok-Rzhev Offensive operation has met swift and unexpected initial success:
[center]
[/center]
On the north, the joint effort of 11th Army (N. Gusev) and 28th Army (M. Purkaev) has recovered the bridgehead we had over the Tveritsa. On the south, 24th Army (S. Kalinin), evicted the 197 and 97 Infantry Divisions from their positions. If the north pincer where Germans, we would have already got a nice pocket here. Q-Ball will have to counterattack the Tank Brigade if he wants to get out of the trap Torzhok has become. There are three Panzer Divisions in that “finger”.
The Moscow diversion has yield quite good results
[center]
[/center]
this means this diversion will continue, and perhaps escalate to a full-blown push supporting the advances towards Rzhev or Kaluga, if it doesn't run quickly into a wall of bricks.
The Tula-Yelets Strategic Offensive operation has smashed several forward German positions
[center]
[/center]
Losses here have been surprisingly low in the successful attacks. I see a powerful German concentration in Tula itself. I don't know if he'll try to counterattack (I would). 1st Shock Army has already joined the fray and the 2nd Shock Army will soon commence operations north of Tula. 31st Army has had some more trouble maneuvering.
The Rossoh-Valyuki Strategic Offensive operation seems to have already achieved one of its Phase 1 objectives. I expected Q-Ball to fight here hard, given his activity here during November:
[center]
[/center]
I see some Romanian Mountain Divisions here, and there's some Waffen SS as well. Here I don't precisely have the strongest of my armies, but I can build this up quite quickly and keep the pressure.
The Rostov – Voroshilovgrad – Stalino Strategic Offensive operation has started quite well. The flanking attacks we envisioned have worked really well
[center]
[/center]
Southern Front has finally got some revenge from the suffering inflicted by the German armies in the Donbass. I don't think Q-Ball will forgo his flanks. Though I wonder if he'll reinforce the flanks or just pull back over the Mius. I hope he does the latter.
51st Army starts pursuing the Axis divisions which seem being retreating towards the general direction of Perekop
[center]
[/center]
while three Rifle Brigades disembark just west of Feodosiya. The two divisions blocking the isthmus to the east will have to make some choice soon. I just hope the German ArmeeKorps here isn't commanded by Sponek.
I have launched a total of 29 attacks, of which 26 have ended with Red Army soldiers victory. Loss exchange certainly has “improved”, it's been 33,000 to 12,547, something like 2.6 favoring the Axis. However I'm very happy about the operational success around Torzhok, and things are also going according to plan for the Tula – Yelets operation. We'll see how things develop next turn. This logistics phase blizzard effects are going to bite some Axis ass. This should soften up considerably German positions, especially those with level 2 or worse forts.
I must admit I left work early today to get the soonest possible my hands on this turn.
Operational Situation Report
The valiant 18. Armee flees to the west. Recon has been extremely ineffective this turn, and I don't know exactly where he's exactly going
[center]
[/center]Note how the Finnish Army has decided to hug Northern Front positions and menaces with attacking. If the Finns want to play, we'll play.
I wasn't sure if Q-Ball was to retreat to the positions he's been preparing northeast of Rzhev, but seems he wants to dispute the Tveritsa crossing
[center]
[/center]which I think it's a good idea. The river will shield somewhat his forces, and blocking the path to Rzhev is extremely important for the Axis.
He's also holding fast in front of Moscow
[center]
[/center]not many chances to make much headway here in December. Mostly nibbling here and there waiting for the situation in the flanks obliging him to reevaluate his positions. In Tula he's only holding fast along the river lines, leaving one hex between his forces and mine in other places
[center]
[/center]the same pattern repeats south of Voronezh, Q-Ball is going to refuge himself behind the riverlines
[center]
[/center]He's also retreated slightly in the Voroshilovgrad – Rostov area
[center]
[/center]here Q-Ball has done something I seldom seen my Axis opponents doing: splitting the Gebirgsjäger divisions to protect the most of the line. This is going to be a tough blizzard, indeed. But in this particular case, it's nice that he put the Gebirgsjäger Regiments just between my main axis of advance. And in the Crimea he felt uncomfortable all of a sudden
[center]
[/center]Should I cry now “this is not fair, he's not waiting for me to pound him”? Or “the game doesn't allow me enough strategic options”?
Logistics & Organization
This turn I haven't been so lucky with the damaged Armament factories producing something, and less Armament points have been produced. This turn only 75,000 new recruits have been put into the line.
Finally, I get my first Corps
[center]
[/center]Note the SU package: 1 Tk Bn, 1 AT Rgt, 1 MG-Arty Bn. No sappers into these guys. These aren't shock troops, but mobile troops. I know the merits of this are debatable – in terms of raw CV these are perhaps the most powerful Soviet formations – but I feel I would wasting their real ability, their mobility.
As planned, I build 12 of these guys in the first batch:
[center]
[/center]Now we're ready to rumble!
Operations
Q-Ball operational retreats haven't thrown off the rails the operations I have laid out on Turn 23. I really want to get to those places, first and foremost. If the German Army feels so generous as not interfering too much, well, thank you OKH! This is a bit like solving the paradox of Achilles and the Turtle, the Red Army being an old, lame Achilles. It's all about the relative speeds.
The Torzhok-Rzhev Offensive operation has met swift and unexpected initial success:
[center]
[/center]On the north, the joint effort of 11th Army (N. Gusev) and 28th Army (M. Purkaev) has recovered the bridgehead we had over the Tveritsa. On the south, 24th Army (S. Kalinin), evicted the 197 and 97 Infantry Divisions from their positions. If the north pincer where Germans, we would have already got a nice pocket here. Q-Ball will have to counterattack the Tank Brigade if he wants to get out of the trap Torzhok has become. There are three Panzer Divisions in that “finger”.
The Moscow diversion has yield quite good results
[center]
[/center]this means this diversion will continue, and perhaps escalate to a full-blown push supporting the advances towards Rzhev or Kaluga, if it doesn't run quickly into a wall of bricks.
The Tula-Yelets Strategic Offensive operation has smashed several forward German positions
[center]
[/center]Losses here have been surprisingly low in the successful attacks. I see a powerful German concentration in Tula itself. I don't know if he'll try to counterattack (I would). 1st Shock Army has already joined the fray and the 2nd Shock Army will soon commence operations north of Tula. 31st Army has had some more trouble maneuvering.
The Rossoh-Valyuki Strategic Offensive operation seems to have already achieved one of its Phase 1 objectives. I expected Q-Ball to fight here hard, given his activity here during November:
[center]
[/center]I see some Romanian Mountain Divisions here, and there's some Waffen SS as well. Here I don't precisely have the strongest of my armies, but I can build this up quite quickly and keep the pressure.
The Rostov – Voroshilovgrad – Stalino Strategic Offensive operation has started quite well. The flanking attacks we envisioned have worked really well
[center]
[/center]Southern Front has finally got some revenge from the suffering inflicted by the German armies in the Donbass. I don't think Q-Ball will forgo his flanks. Though I wonder if he'll reinforce the flanks or just pull back over the Mius. I hope he does the latter.
51st Army starts pursuing the Axis divisions which seem being retreating towards the general direction of Perekop
[center]
[/center]while three Rifle Brigades disembark just west of Feodosiya. The two divisions blocking the isthmus to the east will have to make some choice soon. I just hope the German ArmeeKorps here isn't commanded by Sponek.
I have launched a total of 29 attacks, of which 26 have ended with Red Army soldiers victory. Loss exchange certainly has “improved”, it's been 33,000 to 12,547, something like 2.6 favoring the Axis. However I'm very happy about the operational success around Torzhok, and things are also going according to plan for the Tula – Yelets operation. We'll see how things develop next turn. This logistics phase blizzard effects are going to bite some Axis ass. This should soften up considerably German positions, especially those with level 2 or worse forts.
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
This aar is a fascinating read - thanks so much for taking the time to write these long and detailed posts. I look forward to every turn it is just like a good book ! I wish you and your russian armies the best of luck in your offensive - you deserve a break after all the russian setbacks in the summer and autumn. Please if possible keep playing 'to the end' ie fighting it out in the rubble of Berlin in 1944/45. We really need some good aar's which keep going to the proper end of the war rather than just stopping in 1942/43.
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BletchleyGeek
- Posts: 4460
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:01 pm
- Location: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: asdicus
This aar is a fascinating read - thanks so much for taking the time to write these long and detailed posts. I look forward to every turn it is just like a good book !
Thank you for the compliments asdicus [:)] That really motivates to keep up with this.
ORIGINAL: asdicus
I wish you and your russian armies the best of luck in your offensive - you deserve a break after all the russian setbacks in the summer and autumn. Please if possible keep playing 'to the end' ie fighting it out in the rubble of Berlin in 1944/45. We really need some good aar's which keep going to the proper end of the war rather than just stopping in 1942/43.
I don't plan to give up anytime soon [:)]. Q-Ball is a superb opponent. He's really forced me to look at every little detail in the game each turn, just to survive. And I can't agree more with you, we've got very few games going on until really late in the war (Idaho v. Scar, Tarhunnas v. Gids). Which is not strange either: this is a titanic struggle, not only against your opponent, but also against real life
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Richard III
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:16 pm
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: asdicus
This aar is a fascinating read - thanks so much for taking the time to write these long and detailed posts. I look forward to every turn it is just like a good book ! I wish you and your russian armies the best of luck in your offensive - you deserve a break after all the russian setbacks in the summer and autumn. Please if possible keep playing 'to the end' ie fighting it out in the rubble of Berlin in 1944/45. We really need some good aar's which keep going to the proper end of the war rather than just stopping in 1942/43.
I second your comments. I`ve actually printed out the AAR to date ( color !) since it`s among the best, and a fine learning tool.
“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”
¯ Leo Tolstoy
¯ Leo Tolstoy
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BletchleyGeek
- Posts: 4460
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:01 pm
- Location: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: Richard III
ORIGINAL: asdicus
This aar is a fascinating read - thanks so much for taking the time to write these long and detailed posts. I look forward to every turn it is just like a good book ! I wish you and your russian armies the best of luck in your offensive - you deserve a break after all the russian setbacks in the summer and autumn. Please if possible keep playing 'to the end' ie fighting it out in the rubble of Berlin in 1944/45. We really need some good aar's which keep going to the proper end of the war rather than just stopping in 1942/43.
I second your comments. I`ve actually printed out the AAR to date ( color !) since it`s among the best, and a fine learning tool.
[X(] Rich, I think you're one of the very few people who have used the "Printable Version" button since 2005 [:D]
Thanks for reading, really.
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
Very instructive BG, I appreciate all the hard work you are putting into this.
I think the germans need to back up in december and not get too tied down into trying to stop the russians.
From your screens it looks like you will be able to chew on a lot of units.
I think the germans need to back up in december and not get too tied down into trying to stop the russians.
From your screens it looks like you will be able to chew on a lot of units.
"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.
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BletchleyGeek
- Posts: 4460
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:01 pm
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: Baelfiin
Very instructive BG, I appreciate all the hard work you are putting into this.
Thank you Baelfiin
ORIGINAL: Baelfiin
I think the germans need to back up in december and not get too tied down into trying to stop the russians.
From your screens it looks like you will be able to chew on a lot of units.
Playing the Axis during blizzard becomes a couple orders of magnitude harder because of the trade-offs inherent to the decisions the Axis player has to make.
The Axis has usually to choose between retreating, holding fast and counterattacking. The factors that influence these decisions, which I see - would love to hear opinions on this, by the way - are the following:
- One doesn't want the Red Army to achieve its operational goals - if they have those, of course - for free.
- Retreating makes sense if you have somewhere to retreat to (Q-Ball has made what I think is a good work ensuring this). While retreating in the open reduces the ability of the Red Army to engage the Axis forces, it exposes you to climate, the big killer. The sooner or later climate attrition will slow your units down and fall prey to Red Army retribution.
- The best way to contest a flanking maneuver is to reinforce the center and counterattack the flanks, trying to defeat the flanking forces decisively. This is very risky because of the Blizzard attack penalties.
Getting the decisions "right" in all three aspects all the time I think it's simply not possible (unless we're talking about a exceptionally gifted player). The Axis player that does best in the Blizzard is the one that makes the least number of "bad" decisions.
About the prospects of chewing much of the Axis army... well, it will depend on what decisions Q-Ball makes. I can force his hand in some places, but not in general. He seems to me a very solid player, mostly because seems to be able to appraise situations honestly, rather than appealing to wishful thinking. That makes him a fearsome opponent.
Regarding the Soviets. I think you need a plan and stick to it until you see it is not feasible. The goal of the blizzard is to maximize Axis losses to neutralize part of the advantage it has achieved during the Summer and Autumn. Before the 1.04 and 1.05 changes the most effective way to deliver this was to conduct attritional, static operations. Just throw men into the fiery furnace until it clogs and doesn't burn any more.
I think this is not sustainable now. More "finesse" is needed, in the lines of what James commented a few posts before: Mass, Momentum, Maneuver. Hence the pattern I think one can sees on this first blizzard turn: pin the center, apply the 3 M's on the flanks.
I expect sooner or later Q-Ball to make a bad decision.
If he doesn't... well, these bulges do really look nice on the map, right? [:D]
RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
Should I cry now “this is not fair, he's not waiting for me to pound him”? Or “the game doesn't allow me enough strategic options”?
Better not... let it be ironic, otherwise we might see some real high-command feature with orders like holding the Kiev pocket or futile counterattacks for the Soviets, or ones that order the Germans to send off two Panzergroups from AGC in the midst of the rush to Moscow towards Kiev, or force holding every hex in blizzard and require a suicidal drive on Stalingrad and Baku... Imagine how much more the Germans would be screwed if Hitlers and Stalins orders would be present and enforced, especially since the latter turned more and more hands-off while the former messed around with OKW business more the worse the situation got...
Anyway, back to your great AAR. It seems you make very good progress, surprisingly good progress I find given the number of attacks that succeeded. One probably needs to wait until your blizzard is over, but one question I surely will have for you by that time is whether you think that the 2:1 is still needed even for this period, or whether the other changes, notably those to the fort rules, might have rendered it obsolete?
Will you try to go for some clear breakthrus that may allow you to rush cavalry or tank divisions thru the holes and attempt some sizable pocketing? Or do you plan to simply push slowly and steadily, not risking any of your formations to be cut-off themselves? What is your overall goal for this winter period? Pushing the Germans back into positions that would be less advantageous for launching their next summer offensive? Or attrition?
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BletchleyGeek
- Posts: 4460
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RE: Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek
ORIGINAL: janh
ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
Should I cry now “this is not fair, he's not waiting for me to pound him”? Or “the game doesn't allow me enough strategic options”?
Better not... let it be ironic, otherwise we might see some real high-command feature with orders like holding the Kiev pocket or futile counterattacks for the Soviets, or ones that order the Germans to send off two Panzergroups from AGC in the midst of the rush to Moscow towards Kiev, or force holding every hex in blizzard and require a suicidal drive on Stalingrad and Baku... Imagine how much more the Germans would be screwed if Hitlers and Stalins orders would be present and enforced, especially since the latter turned more and more hands-off while the former messed around with OKW business more the worse the situation got...
Precisely that was the point of the irony (I put the statements between quotes). You've said it very well janh.
ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
Anyway, back to your great AAR. It seems you make very good progress, surprisingly good progress I find given the number of attacks that succeeded. One probably needs to wait until your blizzard is over, but one question I surely will have for you by that time is whether you think that the 2:1 is still needed even for this period, or whether the other changes, notably those to the fort rules, might have rendered it obsolete?
Yes, first blizzard turns tend to be very flashy, but the flash fades away quite quickly. Paraphrasing sillyflower, the damage you do is mostly psychological (which can entail actual damage as the Axis player starts making unsound decisions).
I think it's needed... but not for the Russians, but for the Germans. The one single criterion that I think matters considering when evaluating an operation with current rules is how much is it costing.
ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
Will you try to go for some clear breakthrus that may allow you to rush cavalry or tank divisions thru the holes and attempt some sizable pocketing? Or do you plan to simply push slowly and steadily, not risking any of your formations to be cut-off themselves? What is your overall goal for this winter period? Pushing the Germans back into positions that would be less advantageous for launching their next summer offensive? Or attrition?
On Turn 23 I laid out the overall planning for December and January. Beyond that I think it's pointless, it depends too much on what actually happens in December and January. I'll do a bit of the two things. The "pushing & shoving" game is for pinning big German concentrations and strongpoints. The breakthroughs are for the flanks. However, I wouldn't qualify as a breakthrough anything the Red Army can achieve during blizzard, since it really doesn't have anything to exploit them. Let's say they're "flashes in the pan".
The main goal is an operational one rather than strategic: to stretch the German line so it becomes really difficult for him to mass infantry anywhere without significantly weakening any other sector (so I can menace with an offensive). The idea is to force him to conduct offensive operations in 1942 without substantial infantry support.
Attrition is really the work of winter. What I'm trying to do is to dislocate his positions, so he's forced to expose - even for a limited time - his units to the elements. This weakens units and allows me to attack more effectively. But it's not a goal in itself. This is a conflict fought on the operational level - clearly defined goals, based on maneuver - rather than an asymmetrical conflict such as the Vietnam War where it was all about Superior Firepower and Search & Destroy operations.
The latter doesn't make sense and can't be done. Interestingly, the best (not really fully convinced about this) the Germans can do in 1942 is more like the latter.