Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

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BBfanboy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is also my experience that Allied ships start to gain a distinct advantage in surface combat after 1944. I think this is due to working torpedoes, better ships with better guns, faster rate of fire, better radar, and the jump in crew quality for any ship arriving after 1944.

I am perfectly comfortable engaging the Japanese with Fletcher class DDs when the moonlight is low and modern CLs and CAs when the moonlight is decent.

It's true, but should it be? As evidenced by some things that have happened to my IJN ships lately, I'm not really sure what to do or what force composition might be best. Should Flectchers alone be able to stave off and even get the better of IJN CAs and BBs with decent DD escort? Seems odd considering the number of guns and level of armor those ships have. But it is surely what I'm seeing.

In 44 the IJN can't compete on level terms or even with a supposed advantage. All through the game we've had surface battles, and I've never seen stuff like what has been happening lately. Its like a switch flipped in 44 and nothing works suddenly. I must be going through all of the 5 steps of the Kübler-Ross model of grief that the Japanese surely had to face themselves, little by little through the years. I'm not nearly at acceptance, but I've definitely moved past anger and I'm now into the bargaining stage, heading toward depression.


No, I really think it is as it should be and not out of historical proportion. Japanese ships were so totally outclassed by the newer Allied ships in 1944. I don't recall them pulling off many successful surface actions after 1943. Two things really changed for the Allies over this period. Much more effective radar and fire control systems. This changed the nature of night actions totally.

At the battle of Surigao the West Virginia started tracking the Yamashiro at close to 35,000 yards, fired her first salvo using modern gunnery radar, at 20,000 yards in pitch black conditions and hit her with the very first salvo. This sort of shooting would have been unheard in 1942 by either side and it was still not possible by any Japanese ship in 1944. We are talking almost "11.5 miles." Perfect daytime visability from the deck of a BB was rarely more than 14 miles..
+1 crsutton!
Not only did they get that radar and fire control that could use it, they were trained to use it to advantage in night actions. This was not the case in 1942 when Admirals wasted their radar advantage by not making the radar equipped ships their flagship, not puttting those ships near the front of their column and not opening fire until they had visual ID of the enemy. See the battles of Cape Esperance [CL Helena had to open fire without orders to show where the enemy was] and Guadalcanal I [ Adm. Scott did not give orders to fire when reports started coming in because he didn't trust the radar, or wasn't sure where all the allied ships were. He also placed brand-new DD Fletcher at the rear of the line].

Contrast that with Empress Augusta Bay in 1943 wherein the four Cleveland CLs opened fire on radar ranges and bearings and got a first salvo hit on a CL [Sendai?] Or Cape St. George where US DDs made a torpedo attack by radar before the Japanese even knew they were there. Or the sinking of CA Haguro when the six British DDs set up a torpedo attack from six points of the compass using radar to track Haguro and their own units.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

May 12-16 1943

Sorry guys, work is killing me in these days. Barely have time to do a turn per day[:(][:(][:(]

In the last 4 days many things happen and few of them were good for the Empire.

On the 14th 70 enemy 4Es arrived over Dili, but we managed to ambush them and at least 20/25th of them were shot down. Not bad!
This didn't stop their following missions (they bombed an undefended Alor on the 15th and 16th) but it feels good to finally manage to get some of them!

Then on the 15th, a strong CV TF (probably 5 carriers) popped up out of the blue east of Bouganville...my search arcs didn't work as planned and the allied carriers, unseen, sent their air assets against my transports that were unloading 2 regiments at Bouganville... lost 3 AKs, 6 PBs, 1 E and some 15 xAK/xAKLs....
Obviously my Betties and Judys didn't launch (low DL maybe!?) and the enemy CVs moved back to Karaikira without problems....
Thousands Ships Bay is now at Level 1 AF... time to abbandon the lower solomons....

Then, on the 16th, not less than 4 HUGE SCTFs appeared south of Selroe... i had all my anti-naval assets in place... more than 150 Netties/Frances... weather was good...the DL more than decent... only 9 Frances did launch and we scored a single torpedo hit on the Ramilles (and another dud one[:@])... the whole rest of the Netties simply didn't launch... i don't understand what i'm doing wrong here[:@]
These bad guys now will wreck havoc among all my bases (Lautem, Dili, Saumlaki, Babar...) and, when the day will arrive, they'll be back at Darwin... damn[:@]

Heavy allied recon over dot bases in western Sumatra and Wau (near Salamua in PGN)... i'm waiting for some para-actions here... will take care of it asap

In Burma he's trying to force the passage south of the river north of Katha... seems like he's sending a tank Bde and probably a couple of divisions....we'll see if the 55th Division will be able to hold



So now i know that the allied CVs are in SOPAC, while those i spotted at Darwin must be CVEs and CVLs so... DIVIDE ET IMPERA...right Brad?
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Cribtop
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by Cribtop »

You are having fantastically bad luck with launches. Not sure what is up with that.
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JohnDillworth
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by JohnDillworth »

You are having fantastically bad luck with launches. Not sure what is up with that.
I'm wondering if it's because there are not enough escorts
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

You are having fantastically bad luck with launches. Not sure what is up with that.

So true collegue [:)]. Let's just hope the wind will change soon!

May 17, 1943

As we guessed, the enemy bombardment TFs brought distruption over my front line bases, both in the Solomons and in the DEI.
Dili was hit by 5 Cruisers and 7 DDs, Saumlaki by 2 BBs+2 CAs+5 DDs, Kai-enlanded by 4 more cruisers, while Tulagi was put out of action by not less than 4 CAs+8 Fletchers... all the enemy ships were back out of my range when the day arrived...
my mines never work, both against ships and against subs...(this is another thing that i don't understand...there is a sub stationing at Ambon hex who keeps on torpedoing my cargos there...and i have 150 mines placed there and 2 ASW TFs... nothing[:@])

However, now that the enemy torps are working better we're starting to really hurt about the nerfed DBB ASW capabilities...

BTW, we're re-organizing our defences in the Solomons area and i'm also starting to deploy a deep defensive line in eastern PGN... but it will take time...and the allies now are marching really fast.
Enemy CVs linger near Ndeni...clearly waiting for anther frog leap...we're keeping our CVs hidden for the moment and we did change our search assets...don't wanna have anymore surprises.
But i can already foresee the usual pattern in the DEI...he's closing down again the AFs at Alor, Dili, Lautem, Boela, Dobo, Taberfane...you know what it means, right... he's coming again! Darwin is being monitored closely...if he starts loading his troops i'll know it!

The first little unit is being unloading at Iwo Jiima...the first of a long series of garrisons for the Bonins.

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BBfanboy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by BBfanboy »

From what I have seen, minefields only work when the enemy does not know they are there. As soon as one of his units discovers them, they seem to "map" the field's location and avoid that part of the 40nm hex. Laying a fresh field will get more victims.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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Cribtop
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by Cribtop »

Also, as JohnD said, it may well be you don't have enough escorts. Can you comment on that?
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
You are having fantastically bad luck with launches. Not sure what is up with that.
I'm wondering if it's because there are not enough escorts


Not the case John. At Ambon i had 36 Oscars and 18 Zeros to escort my Netties and at Koepang i had 50 zekes... Same at Rabaul where i had 36 Oscars and some 15 zeros to escort...

Bad luck i'd say
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

May 18-19, 1943
 
Enemy cruisers (3 CAs + 2 CLs + 6 DDs) bombed Saumlaki once again, while more BB TFs are on their way to Lautem and Babar...Taberfane will be hit again tomorrow.
 
Several minesweepers are now based at Tulagi, while the recon missions over PGN are raisining in numbers...
 
Magwe (Burma) has getting lots of attentions in the last days, while air bombings keep on harrassing my troops in northern Burma.
 
In The Solomons we managed to replace an Air Division HQ from Munda to Torokina using fast transports.
 
BBFanboy: probably you're right, but as far as i know he never detected the minefields at Ambon...and those pesky subs keep on stationing there, despite my TOP ASW Helens, an ASW TF and all those type 93 mines....[8|]
 
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by princep01 »

From what I have seen, minefields only work when the enemy does not know they are there. As soon as one of his units discovers them, they seem to "map" the field's location and avoid that part of the 40nm hex. Laying a fresh field will get more victims.
 
+1.  This has been my experience as well.  I am not certain what constitutes "seeing the mine field", but once the field has claimed a victim, then I don't think you will get anymore after that turn unless you reinforce the minefield with new mines.

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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

May 21, 43

PTs everywhere...

they arrived at Munda....followed by a bombardment TF...i hate PTs

Another Bombardment TF bombarded Lautem ...my subs didn't score a single hit, despite two attempts...

A bait TF composed of 2 DDs attracted my Frances 1 hexes south of Samulaki...and my Frances and Zeros got slaughtered by his LRCAP[:@]

Brad put at sea several transport TFs, while moving out of Darwin some troops (to the south)... i bet these are all baits...not a single APA spotted...just xAKs... but not less than 4 big TF north of Darwin... clearly he wants to destroy my LBA before attempting a real invasion

Munda is now impossible to hold and Tulagi, Russell and Lunga are already isolated...damn too fast


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Munda at 111,134, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Kashima
AMC Kiyosumi Maru

Allied Ships
PT-151
PT-152
PT-153
PT-154
PT-155
PT-156
PT-159
PT-160
PT-162
PT-163
PT-164
PT-165

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Lautem at 72,115

Japanese Ships
SS RO-34

Allied Ships
CL Achilles
CL Montpelier
CL Honolulu
CL Richmond
CL Leander
DD Craven
DD Fox
DD Shaw

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Lautem at 72,115

Allied Ships
CL Montpelier
CL Honolulu
CL Richmond
CL Achilles
CL Leander
DD Fox
DD Shaw
DD Fanning
DD Craven
DD Chevalier

Japanese ground losses:
239 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Airbase hits 8
Runway hits 22
Port hits 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Munda at 111,134

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 7 damaged
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 7 damaged
H6K4 Mavis: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Ellet
DD Woodworth
DD McCalla
DD Lardner

Japanese ground losses:
70 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 15
Port hits 5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Lautem at 73,116

Japanese Ships
SS I-171, hits 10

Allied Ships
DD Craven
CL Montpelier
CL Honolulu
CL Richmond
CL Leander
DD Fox
DD Shaw
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Selaroe at 77,119

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
P1Y1 Frances x 6

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 4
F4F-4 Wildcat x 14
F4U-1 Corsair x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
P1Y1 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Aylwin



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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

So the situation is quite clear.
 
The allies are ready to advance in the Solomons. I think they'll land at Tulagi and probably at Munda (or they'll bypass it).
At the same time the allies are ready to make another attempt in southern DEI and possibly against PGN (i think using paras here).
 
Problem is that Brad uses a lot of PTs and baits for my LBAs, so every attempt to distrupt his landings with my surface assets are problematic, and i don't wanna waste my precious LBA bombers...
 
what to do?
 
The CVs are kept in the shades between Truk and Rabaul for the moment... while Kaga is moving slowly back to Japan for R&R (20 flt damage)...i cannot risk her in front line duties
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

May 22, 1943
 
Another bad turn. Enemy P-38s swept at 39k feet Munda, slaughtering my Tojos... i reminded Brad that our HR should limit the P-38e below 31k feet...but that wouldn't change much the overall result... i'm being kicked around
 
My Nells took off from Koepang against his bait (2 DDs) south of Babar... and found 50 planes on LRTCAP... don't know if all thse baits and PTs are really kosher... probably yes, even if now Brad is really using them a lot and everywhere
 
More Baits (AMs) appeared one hex west of Terapo and near Onnekotan Java (east of Munda)... hate to lose planes against these useless ships
 
Enemy CVEs based at Darwin... enemy CVs still around Ndeni... lots of activities at Townsville, with many ships and planes gathering there...[8|]
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

May 23, 1943
 
a HUGE TF is closing to Tulagi... as predicted. APAs, LSTs and many support ships. A big landing....
princep01
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by princep01 »

Ser Greyjoy, on those PTs and AM baits and pests, have you ever tried sending fighters in to strafe (100').  Pick the ones least likely to have LRCAP overhead and see if you can mow some of the little buggers down.
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: princep01

Ser Greyjoy, on those PTs and AM baits and pests, have you ever tried sending fighters in to strafe (100').  Pick the ones least likely to have LRCAP overhead and see if you can mow some of the little buggers down.

My master, i've been thinking of it, but i'm not that kneen to waste precious fighter groups (i badly need them to protect the few bases i have as operative - those not knocked out by his bombardments)... but will probably try tomorrow and see how it goes (but flak is much more powerfull in DBB so i don't know if that's a great idea)


May 25, 1943

Ok, the enemy landed something like 20,000 men at Tulagi, unopposed. Covered by Karaikira and Thousands Ships Bay's CAP, the allies used several APA/LST/AKs and landed something like a division. My garrison there has no hope of relief...out of supplies and completely isolated, those guys will fall at the very first attack. I won't engage...not now. Not there, where the allies have their dreaded PT/DDs swarms

At the very same time what seems to be an invasion TF is assembling near Portland Roads, while the "baits" fell back to Darwin...

We're using this time to send 3 base forces and some 4 engineers units to northern PGN and more infantry units are arriving at Singapore and from there to Western Sumatra and Thailand.

Marcus and Wake are garrisoned as best as i can, while the Aleutinas should be safe untill the winter arrives...
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

Oh, and finally my prayers did work! After hundreds of turns, in the last 2 ones we bagged 2 subs (Ambon and Rabaul) with the dreaded type 93 mine[:D][:D][:D][:D]
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


May 25, 1943

Ok, the enemy landed something like 20,000 men at Tulagi, unopposed. Covered by Karaikira and Thousands Ships Bay's CAP, the allies used several APA/LST/AKs and landed something like a division. My garrison there has no hope of relief...out of supplies and completely isolated, those guys will fall at the very first attack. I won't engage...not now. Not there, where the allies have their dreaded PT/DDs swarms

As you know from your game with rader, the Allies can eventually move through here with close support from LBA on nearby bases and the PT/DD everywhere. But this is not where they want to be moving at this stage, so slowing and fighting them here helps a bit.

If he uses the PT alone I wonder if you could send those older DD or the faster E against them in the DEI. Four quick DD can do a lot of damage to PTs, but of course it helps if there is good moon and if there isn't a bombardment TF coming next. Sounds like it would be dicey in that area, but maybe worth a shot in spots.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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GreyJoy
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


May 25, 1943

Ok, the enemy landed something like 20,000 men at Tulagi, unopposed. Covered by Karaikira and Thousands Ships Bay's CAP, the allies used several APA/LST/AKs and landed something like a division. My garrison there has no hope of relief...out of supplies and completely isolated, those guys will fall at the very first attack. I won't engage...not now. Not there, where the allies have their dreaded PT/DDs swarms

As you know from your game with rader, the Allies can eventually move through here with close support from LBA on nearby bases and the PT/DD everywhere. But this is not where they want to be moving at this stage, so slowing and fighting them here helps a bit.

If he uses the PT alone I wonder if you could send those older DD or the faster E against them in the DEI. Four quick DD can do a lot of damage to PTs, but of course it helps if there is good moon and if there isn't a bombardment TF coming next. Sounds like it would be dicey in that area, but maybe worth a shot in spots.


He has mined all my islands in the DEI...heavily...and i already lost too many DDs to spare them for these missions. I wanna keep my bullets for when i will really need them (even if i sink 8 PTs so what?...he simply can re-build them immediately at Darwin!)...

In the Solomons...yes, i've done the same. He has a good combo of Fletchers DDs and PTs...which is exactly what i don't want to fight right now. I'm falling back with my defences here...there isn't that much i can do. The whole south pacific is doomed anyway. What i need now is to build a strong perimeter here: Kwalajein-Kusiae-Ponape-Truk-Mariannas-Hansa Bay/Hollandia-Biak and Pelieu.

But i think he'll need most of 1943 to advance towards Rabaul, so i should be fine with this time-line
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RE: LOST VICTORIES

Post by veji1 »

I honestly would raise the PT issue at Babar and Saumlaki... Having PTs just cross 200 miles of openwater like that, to just go and park on your islands without local fuel dumps etc just sounds absurd to me...

I would raise it not because Qball is being dishonest or anything, the game engine let's it happen, but because with this mod that already emulates the Jap situation way better than in stock (supply and AS issue, resulting in closed AFs etc..) he doesn't need to use that and it gives him an advantage that is not in the spirit of the game you are playing.

There wouldn't be anything dishonourable about raising the issue at least.

my 2 cents anyway.
Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam
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