Clash of Steel: 1941-1945: Q-Ball vs Bletchley_Geek

[BletchleyGeek]

A long delayed update...

Turn 38 – 5 March 1942

After a couple of very quiet turns, the latent volcano the front was, it spectacularly erupts. Q-Ball has grouped his Panzer Armies into two groups and has delivered powerful strokes in the Orel – Tula direction and in the Stalino – Valyuki direction. These two offensives have entailed a total of 57 battles, the highest since Turn 22, of which 45 have become Axis victories. This has meant 43,000 casualties for Q-Ball, evenly split between KIA and disabled, 518 artillery pieces and 84 AFV's. The Red Army has suffered 80,000 casualties (23k KIA, 54k disabled), losing as well 2,209 artillery pieces and 326 AFV's. The fight has been pretty intense.

In the air, the VVS has suffered as well a major defeat. Q-Ball has lost 20 fighters – Axis tactical aviation seems still to be away from the front – while I have lost over 300 planes in aerial combat alone.

It's interesting to see that the proportion of KIA vs. Disabled seems to be dependant on who is in the attack. Axis KIA vs. Disabled ratio seems to be 50%. Let's see how does that look for me when I counterattack.

Operational Situation Report

Bryansk Front 31st and 49th Army have been shattered in front of Orel after putting up a good fight. Q-Ball has advanced about 40 miles deep into my lines

[center][/center]

with no less than 8 Motorized divisions – 4 of them Panzer. Besides that he also tried to isolate a good chunk of 4th Army but he cam across 1st Shock Army positions. Six divisions and two tank brigades are in a quite difficult position.

Things in the south look really bad. Q-Ball has done here pretty much what he's wanted to

[center][/center]

Smashing through the lines of Southwestern Front 5th, 18th and 57th Armies. 16th Army – which traded a few units with 3rd Shock last turn – has been almost been destroyed by the onslaught. I can't put my finger on what's worse: having most of 18th Army encircled just east of Kupyansk or the fact that he's achieved an excellent position to pursue further operations. I need to consolidate my positions and reinforce.

Logistics and Organization

On this aspect I'm not particularly worried. Pools have plenty of equipment and replacement tanks and this turn I was able to put into the lines 120,000 recruits. Armaments production is steady at 91,000 points per turn, and I can't still believe my eyes when seeing that there are over 140,000 points on the Armaments pool. Besides that, I have 400 AP's in the pool. So here all I need to do is to carefully manage things.

Although the Blizzard hasn't brought about the demise of the Axis armies, I've got quite a few Guards conversions. The Red Army lists on his OOB 11 Guards Rifle Divisions and 1 Guards Cavalry Corps

[center][/center]

What I need to do this turn is to scoop all Airborne Brigades and put them out of harms' way. With Q-Ball attention to detail, I wouldn't be too surprised that he tries to make me very unhappy destroying as many of them as possible before Mud hits.

Operations

I counterattack the German spearhead northeast of Orel with 1st Shock and 60th Armies managing to push back two Panzer Divisions

[center][/center]

these two battles are quite interesting. In the north, Konev leads to victory the bulk of 1st Shock Army, inflicting a sharp defeat on 3rd PzDiv

[center][/center]

Note the proportion of Destroyed and Damaged ground elements. That's almost a neat 50-50 split. It also catches my eye that even winning the battle, the Soviets get 3 times as many destroyed elements and 4 times as many damaged elements as the Germans. To the south, 60th Army scores another victory

[center][/center]

you can see that the proportions I discuss above are more or less the same. In both cases I've needed to mass six times as much personnel as the Axis. I think that if the 1:1 → 2:1 rule had been in effect, both combats wouldn't have been losses. It's just a hunch, I know.

In the south I'm in full flight, I need to gather my forces

[center][/center]

I've redeployed 42nd and 4th Shock Army to make up for the huge gap that was developing just south of Voronezh. 47th Army – another of STAVKA reserves – goes forward, perhaps a bit recklessly, to establish a screen protecting the remnants of 18th, 57th and 16th Armies. 3rd Shock will be the anchor of Southern and Southwestern Fronts. I also need these troops to rest a bit: Q-Ball push to the north caused substantial damage.

[BletchleyGeek]

Turn 39 – 12 March 1942

The Axis late Winter offensive continues. While in the Orel sector things have quieted down notably – mostly because the participation of strong and substantial reserves – the matter in the South is very worrying. Q-Ball has launched 58 attacks – all of them south of Voronezh – netting about 200,000 prisoners in the pockets east of Kupyansk. Out of these 58 attacks, only 11 have resulted in Soviet defensive victories. While the Luftwaffe tactical aviation has still to appear, German fighter squadrons have fought an awesome defensive air action, inflicting 10 times as many losses than suffered: 20 fighters have been exchanged for about 200 VVS airframes. That's quite a – flying – meatgrinder.

Operational Situation Report

As I commented in the introduction, Q-Ball has stopped his operations on the Orel – Tula axis, bringing forward the infantry

[center][/center]

which, as you can see, isn't featuring really flashy CV. On the contrary, I see the infantry to be really weak here. 2nd Shock Army will be coming to the south, while I will have 1st Shock to hover towards the Southeast.

As I expected, the “monster” motorized divisions I had spotted drive a wedge trying to reach the Don River

[center][/center]

Those are quite fearsome Panzer Divisionen. But also note the quite uneven state of German (and Axis) infantry here. Q-Ball has really done a good job keeping the Motorized divisions in good shape, but he can't be strong anywhere. That tenet of most good Eastern Front games “the Germans can do anything, but can't do everything” comes to my mind when looking at this picture. The goal here is to convince Q-Ball that further pushing, without having the infantry in a better shape is an unsound idea. Let's see if I can get things my way.

I said I was really worried about the South, and if this picture tells you why

[center][/center]

I sort of knew that as soon as I moved the operational reserves I had here to the hotspot further north, this was bound to happen. Now I've to deal with the menace of these Motorized divisions breaking through all the way to the Lower Don. This threat is a REAL problem, which I'm not sure I know how to deal with.

Logistics & Organization

This turn I've managed to put about 100,000 replacements into my front line units, and about 40,000 of them have been gobbled by support squads... I'm really helpless about this. It's not yet a major problem, but really doesn't help one bit to get things steered into the “right” direction.

On the bright side, Pavel's fixes to Cavalry divisions Guards conversion mechanism that came with 1.05.40 are felt. Five Cavalry divisions attain Guard status, which means I get another Guards Cavalry Corps.

Operations

The situation in the Donbass is very bad. So bad I'll need to strip my reserves northwest of Moscow to reinforce that sector of the front. Right now I feel like a field surgeon facing the need to cut away a chunk out of a poor soldier body in order to save his life. It's not a pleasant feeling.

I forgo many possible attacks, favoring conservation of force, I'm really reeling from the blow in the South, which is probably going to be worse. It's all about damage control... again. But I can't refrain from stinging the PanzerWaffe

[center][/center]

as I relieve 1st Shock by the fresher 2nd Shock Army.

This is how the Red Army lines are set at the end of the turn in the South

[center][/center]

you can see that quite a few divisions are going to be trapped next turn... That's been a conscious decision. They didn't have enough MP to get out of harms' way, and I can't really afford Q-Ball wiping out my forces covering Rostov – the door into the Caucasus. That's what I meant by feeling like a field surgeon. I've also activated Transcaucaus Front – and spending a huge number of AP's rearranging commands, something like 150 AP's – in order to get a better balanced load of my Southern fronts. Besides that two Armies from the Kalinin Front are travelling at top speed towards the Lower Don, the 55th and 34th Army.

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

On the bright side, Pavel's fixes to Cavalry divisions Guards conversion mechanism that came with 1.05.40 are felt. Five Cavalry divisions attain Guard status, which means I get another Guards Cavalry Corps.

Those 5 Cav should net you 2 Corps - two Guard & one regular to form.

About support - here is shot from a game of mine. With 20 men per ready and 16 per damaged squad, the ratio of men in support squads to the whole army is 68%!

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

On the bright side, Pavel's fixes to Cavalry divisions Guards conversion mechanism that came with 1.05.40 are felt. Five Cavalry divisions attain Guard status, which means I get another Guards Cavalry Corps.

Those 5 Cav should net you 2 Corps - two Guard & one regular to form.

Out of the 5 divisions, two were in the same corps, which was the one that got converted. The other three are scattered in different corps

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
About support - here is shot from a game of mine. With 20 men per ready and 16 per damaged squad, the ratio of men in support squads to the whole army is 68%!

Yes, I am not liking this very much. More so when most of my Rifle Divisions number between 7000 and 9000 men. I need riflemen! On the other hand, perhaps having better a better support level will help to curb the losses due to damaged elements becoming destroyed during logistics phase. ComradeP pointed to me about the "buffer" effect of the pools, and is a substantial component of the "loss stream".

[BletchleyGeek]

A small note: we have decided to allow each other to take a look at our AAR's, so don't freakout if you see him in the list of people viewing the thread

[sveint]

Very interesting read. Your lack of fortifications is very worrysome.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: sveint

Very interesting read. Your lack of fortifications is very worrysome.

Thank you for reading. And yes, it's very worrying, especially on the Lower Don.

[randallw]

Look out for your 3 stack hexes right at the front line; they need a place to retreat or they rout.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: randallw

Look out for your 3 stack hexes right at the front line; they need a place to retreat or they rout.

Yes, that's been a major factor for making the defeats to sting much more. I piled up to bring up fort levels... I just didn't take into account that Q-Ball could attack anywhere he liked

[BletchleyGeek]

Turn 40 – 19 March 1942

Although Q-Ball has reduced considerably the number of attacks launched, he's been striking right on the soft spots... avoiding to bite on the bone and leave there a couple teeth. Out of 39 attacks, I've got only 5 Held, being the rest 23 Retreated, 10 Routed and 1 Shattered (a Mortar SU). On the other hand, these victories have come at a substantial price. 13,000 KIA, and 11,000 disabled, along with 98 AFV's and 340 Artillery pieces. The bill for the Red Army amounts to 17,000 KIA, 2,000 POW and 41,000 disabled, and on top of that, 245 AFV's and 1,400 artillery pieces. That's about a 2.5:1 exchange in infantry, 4:1 exchange in artillery and 2.5:1 in AFV's. Unfortunately, Q-Ball has managed to encircle some units north of Valyuki, so he's not getting that bad.

The brightest part of his turn has been the air war. This turn Q-Ball decided to let loose the Luftwaffe tactical aviation and he's perhaps already regretting it. He's lost about 291 airfames in Air Combat alone – including 170 Level Bombers and 81 Tac Bombers – while the VVS has lost just 107 airframes. This is definitely striking.

Checking the Air battles, finally a clear pattern emerges. See the following table, with the data for the top 6 air combats, in terms of air losses:

Ax Ftr | Ax Bmr | Lost Ax Ftr | Lost Ax Bmr | Sov Ftr | Sov Bmr | Lost Sov Ftr | Lost Sov Bmr
44 | 109 | 4 | 49 | 254 | 3 | 4 | 2
24 | 107 | 0 | 40 | 199 | 17 | 1 | 0
62 | 63 | 3 | 35 | 194 | 19 | 9 | 5
51 | 47 | 2 | 22 | 171 | 38 | 4 | 0
42 | 40 | 3 | 19 | 140 | 14 | 4 | 2
9 | 15 | 1 | 14 | 130 | 50 | 1 | 1

There's something out of whack. I would say that one of the changes in the air model with 1.05 – which increased the granularity of air strikes, by breaking down allocated planes into more, smaller strike packages – is getting wrong escorting bombers. Perhaps it runs out of fighters eligible for escort, and some bombers are allowed to conduct missions without any escort whatsoever. This should be looked on closely.

Note as well the huge numbers of fighter the VVS commits: I've Air Doctrine “Fighter Intercept” parameter set to 300.

Operational Situation Report

Q-Ball keeps insisting along three axis: Orel – Tula, Kupyansk – Valyuki – Voronezh and Stalino – Voroshilovgrad. Of the three Axis operations, the latter two are the most worrisome, and the last one is taking a VERY worrying outlook.

On the Tula – Orel axis, Q-Ball is playing it safe, by not committing too much on the offensive

[center][/center]

which probably means his forces here are ripe for a pounding if I play my cards right. The problem is that I'm not sure which precisely are those cards. He's also caught me in a somewhat awkward position, since I was taking 1st Shock Army to the rear for refitting. Either I ignore his offensive completely and go along with my plans, or I ditch that – Mud is near after all – and turn on the heating by going fully to the counterattack. The latter looks as a better bet: the best way to get rid of that powerful motorized units concentration is to put the hurt on the Infantry, so he has to scatter them to hold the line.

I was sort of expecting this... I regretted not deploying 42nd Army more to the east to stop the powerful German motorized forces east of Valyuki

[center][/center]

I have two powerful formations deployed on his flank – or front – which might do some damage to his motorized units. As in further north, the key here is to hurt his infantry or weak motorized divisions, to force him to disperse his strength.

And in the Lower Don, the picture looks very familiar

[center][/center]

as in September 1941, he's grinding Southern Front forces – well, this time it's been more Transcaucasus the Front which has suffered the most – and has unhinged my position. Some of his leading motorized divisions start to look to me significantly weaker than two turns ago. There's one more turn until April – and Mud – so I need to be careful to avoid encirclements, while trying to strike hard where possible. RL keeps me very busy and Q-Ball's moves don't help me to process the turns quickly either.

Logistics & Organization

If something has been true about this game since the very beginning is that I've been overcommitted on the northern half of the Soviet Union. Sometimes because of need – there wasn't anyone to send there to help – and sometimes because of choice. Now I choose to reinforce significantly in the South, sending two whole armies and the equivalent of 10 Rifle Divisions to the Caucasus. I need to get ready for anything, although it's impossible to ready for everything. All this shuffling around of formations costs me dear in AP's.

From a purely logistical standpoint, the situation is improving. Seriously. ARM points are piling on the pool, mostly because of all those Support Squads being built, and partly because the evacuated factories production is peaking. In any case, I can cover my losses and improve the TOEs of my Artillery units. While AFV's are very high – two thirds of these are T-60's and their cousin the T-70 – production is very high as well, and the pools are full with replacements. Finally, and critical for the ability of the Red Army to consolidate its motorized formations by establishing Tank Corps, the vehicle pool is steadily recovering from the blizzard debacle, and I have something like 40,000 surplus. However, mud is coming – and with it again increased Vehicle losses – so I need to be careful with this, and not build too many Tank Corps.

Operations

First thing I need to get done is to “fix” the situation on the Lower Don. The 55th and 34th Armies – former Kalinin Front, still I've to decide what Front to assign them arrive in the nick of time to shore up my defenses

[center][/center]

This is a pseudo-hedgehog defense, note the strongpoints with some weak brigades or divisions thrown to sap MP's. It's probable that Q-Ball tries to push towards the southwest to get an optimal start line for a Summer offensive towards Stalingrad or the Caucasus. Or he goes northeast to cull away some more units from the Red Army OOB.

I launch my armies along the Aidar river on the counterattack, pushing back Q-Ball forces along a 150 miles front

[center][/center]

that should give Q-Ball some food for thought.

I decide to counterattack as well on the Tula – Orel axis, I need to sow Q-Ball mind with as many doubts as possible about his divisions here

[center][/center]

actually, perhaps is here where I'm strongest. He'll probably try to take some revenge, but he's my guest to attack with low odds on strong units.

The second round this turn has been not less bloody than the first one. In the air, the Luftwaffe suffers another important defeat: 134 German planes have been shot down in combat, for just 37 of the VVS. It certainly doesn't make much sense to me, the Luftwaffe was doing better with the tactical aviation in the hangar!

In the ground, things are a bit like blizzard, but without the climate attrition. I've launched 11 attacks, achieving, for the first time I launch a significant number of those, of a 100%. Losses have been heavy for the Red Army: 11,000 KIA, 1,100 disabled, 160 artillery pieces and about 120 AFV's. The Wehrmacht bill is broken down into 3,400 KIA, 2,600 disabled, about 280 artillery pieces and 20 AFV's. Note the Red Army KIA to disabled ratio, it's 10:1!

So it does certainly look like we're back to 1941... but we aren't. I've been able to fall back, regroup and strike back. Let's see if these attacks, and that Q-Ball shares my perception about his infantry badly needing some rest & refit, discourages him from further offensive operations next turn.

You can check all the numbers I gather from WitE on the spreadsheet here.

[Peltonx]

Good data.

Remember its early March and his forses will take 5 full turns to recover from blizzard, as damaged men and equipment filter back to front.

What your seeing now is low TOE% units 50 - 80% that will quickly fill out by June.

The key is the morale of his units. Your winter O was sorry to say on the weak side. There were many reasons why, but it is what it was.

His over-all infantry morale is probably as good as can be expected with the strategy he used. Which means his CV values will be 25% to 35% better then what your seeing now.

So your counter attacking now while he is still weak from the effects of General Winter was just the right thing to do. You need to win as many battles as you can while he is weak to beat down German morale.

Once June comes those easy counter attacks are going to be far and few atleast until later in 42 depending on how the summer goes for you and him.

Very nice match you to are having.

Very even and only a handfull of minor mistakes by both players.

Pelton

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Good data.

Remember its early March and his forses will take 5 full turns to recover from blizzard, as damaged men and equipment filter back to front.

What your seeing now is low TOE% units 50 - 80% that will quickly fill out by June.

The key is the morale of his units. Your winter O was sorry to say on the weak side. There were many reasons why, but it is what it was.

Thank you for the heads up. That gives me a general idea of the time frame of the REAL Axis show for 1942

No need to say "sorry" man, I know the winter offensive wasn't the kind of "Axis gets ran over by the Hammer & Sickle Pain Train" business everybody in these forums has come to see as the "usual thing", or perhaps I'd even dare to say, "take for granted". Now, if anybody thinks I should have done things differently during blizzard, please speak up your mind freely. I haven't been able to keep the AAR - and the game - at the pace I'd have liked to, but that doesn't mean I don't welcome any kind of discussion or criticism

ORIGINAL: Pelton
His over-all infantry morale is probably as good as can be expected with the strategy he used. Which means his CV values will be 25% to 35% better then what your seeing now.

So your counter attacking now while he is still weak from the effects of General Winter was just the right thing to do. You need to win as many battles as you can while he is weak to beat down German morale.

Once June comes those easy counter attacks are going to be far and few atleast until later in 42 depending on how the summer goes for you and him.

I know and I'm worried about that. It's difficult to muster enough striking power to even overcome clearly Q-Ball's weakened flanks.

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Very nice match you to are having.

Very even and only a handfull of minor mistakes by both players.

[:)] Thank you for reading and glad that you're finding the game interesting (and entertaining).

[gingerbread]

How are your partisans doing? Are you dropping enough borscht and vodka (they need the empty bottles for Molotovs) to them?

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

How are your partisans doing? Are you dropping enough borscht and vodka (they need the empty bottles for Molotovs) to them?

Nice that you ask about that. I basically neglected the Partisan aspect of things, it was Q-Ball who reminded me, when he complained that his security units were bored after months of garrisoning cities.

Now I have something like 300 airplanes devoted to that

[Baelfiin]

your hard work on this aar is much appreciated BG.

How do you like to ue your guards once you can build corps? Do you start using them to form corps right away (2 guards div and one regular,) or do you start to form them with just regular dudes first?

I found that I lost several in clear weather turns of may/early june to German spoiling attacks, which has made me very very conservative with them ever since.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

your hard work on this aar is much appreciated BG.

Thank you, I also appreciate people reading, commenting and criticizing

ORIGINAL: Baelflin
How do you like to ue your guards once you can build corps? Do you start using them to form corps right away (2 guards div and one regular,) or do you start to form them with just regular dudes first?

I found that I lost several in clear weather turns of may/early june to German spoiling attacks, which has made me very very conservative with them ever since.

I don't have such a clear policy on that as I have with other aspects of the Red Army build up.

Tank Corps for sure start regular, since Guards Tank Brigades as rare as chicken teeth. But if for some reason, the Red God of War decides to award me with a couple of them, then I will surely build a Guards Tank Corps with them. The Morale bonus and the increased mobility it entails make such a motorized unit an unvaluable asset.

I also tend to build quite a few Motorized Bdes, not only because I feel better seeing that icon on my map, their TOE is interesting and have great mobility. They're great for putting them in Reserve Mode, as Total MP's vs. cost to reach hex is key (besides Leader initiative, but more this). Over time, they'll probably racking enough victories to be able to create at least one Guards Mech Corps.

Regarding Rifle Corps... it will depend a lot on the situation. If I need the Guards in the front since, for whatever reason, my unit density isn't nothing to write home about, then Rifle Corps will start being regulars. If I don't, then I go full after those.

In all cases I don't like letting my opponent to see where my Corps are. I always form them up well to the rear, and especially Motorized corps, spend a very long spell training to bring experience up.

Any advice on this - or comments on past experiences - are very welcomed I'm not very experienced playing the Soviet from late 1942 on.

[Flaviusx]

I think the day of overwhelming Soviet blizzard offensives is gone. It's just much weaker now than it used to be. And every good German player is falling back and keeping his distance from the Red Army -- easier to do now than ever since they're gaining more territory than before.

I hear a lot of stuff on these forums about how the game is biased in favor of the Soviets. My own view is this patch is a gift to Axis players. We overcorrected, imo, and the game isn't really playing anything like historical anymore. Leningrad and Moscow are both falling regularly, there's the infamous Lvov opening, etc.

We've really gone out of our way to accomodate the German player base. Whether this actually resembles history is another matter.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
I think the day of overwhelming Soviet blizzard offensives is gone. It's just much weaker now than it used to be. And every good German player is falling back and keeping his distance from the Red Army -- easier to do now than ever since they're gaining more territory than before.

I hear a lot of stuff on these forums about how the game is biased in favor of the Soviets. My own view is this patch is a gift to Axis players. We overcorrected, imo, and the game isn't really playing anything like historical anymore. Leningrad and Moscow are both falling regularly, there's the infamous Lvov opening, etc.

We've really gone out of our way to accomodate the German player base. Whether this actually resembles history is another matter.

I see some truth in your latter statement regarding accomodating the German player base.

However, I also think things would get evened out by having much less unforgiving logistics, for *both* sides. While this would also impair the Soviet, but mostly in the latter part of the war, since in the first half he's playing "at home" so to speak.

The air war is also distorting things in ways which are subtle. We'll see what happens with clear weather and a massive VVS superiority. Even with all the damage Q-Ball did to my air industry, I think I'll be able to achieve total air superiority over the theater by no later than September 1942.

Then we have these über-modeled ground elements, whose performance, let's be honest, is completely out of whack.

Last, but not least, there's the very limited options to the non-phasing player to interdict the phasing player operations. All operational wargames I have come to appreciate have been either WEGO/RT or they are turn-based and provide with comprenhensive and flexible Reaction rules, that allow to maneuver in a limited manner the non-phasing player units.

My take is that we're at a transitional stage in WitE. I know Pavel is working hard on the logistics and the air model. Those two game mechanics need refining, they're being refined, and while that's under development, I will just live with the shortcomings of not having them, as long as the game keeps being an intellectual challenge.

This is key: one needs to both keep learning stuff and having some fun at some point in order to keep interest in the game. As long as I get this from WitE - along with the SUPERB support and feedback from devs & testers - I won't have one single reason to complain about the game.

Also people are starting to try really interesting ideas with the editor. Check TAIL_GUNNER idea on the Scenario & Modding section. It's not yet another "Deutschland Über Alles" involving unreasonable amounts of German motorized formation at the start of Barbarossa. The players are starting to have a better and more comprenhensive grasp on game mechanics, how do they interact and this means that sooner or later people will come with really good ideas about improving the WitE experience.

About historicity I think the point is moot, it's been discussed on these boards ad nauseam. I never expected a game - nor a reasonable academic historical simulation - to reproduce in a faithful way the processes. What I do expect are that the outcomes, while different, are plausible and within reason. But this takes us back to logistics (and Reaction rules for the non-phasing player)

So cheer up Flavio. Sooner or later Pavel will fix the logistics of the game, and we'll have a good laugh when one of our Axis opponents launches an offensive too much (and too far)

EDIT: A couple things to make the point clearer, and noting other standing problems with WitE.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I think the day of overwhelming Soviet blizzard offensives is gone. It's just much weaker now than it used to be. And every good German player is falling back and keeping his distance from the Red Army -- easier to do now than ever since they're gaining more territory than before.

I hear a lot of stuff on these forums about how the game is biased in favor of the Soviets. My own view is this patch is a gift to Axis players. We overcorrected, imo, and the game isn't really playing anything like historical anymore. Leningrad and Moscow are both falling regularly, there's the infamous Lvov opening, etc.

We've really gone out of our way to accomodate the German player base. Whether this actually resembles history is another matter.

I would agree with you, but TVD is raping me in our current game an I had the same defence as I am using with ease vs M60.

I think I know what hes doing. Hes got piles and piles of 1 cv armor and cav units (1 cv during blizzard) and about 1/2 of what I see normally for strong units.

He uses the strong units to open a crack in the line then ZOC's 8 to 10 german units along front lines. You can generally save 50% with counter attacks.

He does it again. Hes discovered an exploit that is really smart an is what cripples the German army.
Its not the zoc trap, but once a units surrenders it comes back and is filled up with the new replasements filtering back to front.

Sound fine right?

Noper once this starts your front line units receive zero as in no replasements for 3 months, because the pocketed units that come back 2 to 5 per turn suck up all the replasements, which in turn keeps your front line troops at Dec cv levels through February.

I am guessing the down side to this is hes using an insane amount of trucks and his aarmy will have zip for trucks in March.

But the German army will only have 2.3 million men by then and usless also.

I lov poeple who can think out side the box.

The day of overwhelming blizzards is very far from over.

Now that I have played vs this who cares about trucks and supplys tactic, I can easly defeat it. Trick is to start running the last turn of snow and not first turn of blizzard.

Its amazing how different poeples play style can be. I played 17 games and they are all different. There is always someone out there that finds some way to bend the rule set to their advantage.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: Pelton
I would agree with you, but TVD is raping me in our current game an I had the same defence as I am using with ease vs M60.

I think I know what hes doing. Hes got piles and piles of 1 cv armor and cav units (1 cv during blizzard) and about 1/2 of what I see normally for strong units.

He uses the strong units to open a crack in the line then ZOC's 8 to 10 german units along front lines. You can generally save 50% with counter attacks.

He does it again. Hes discovered an exploit that is really smart an is what cripples the German army.
Its not the zoc trap, but once a units surrenders it comes back and is filled up with the new replasements filtering back to front.

I wouldn't say that's an "exploit" Pelton, careful with that word, man

Could you (or TDV himself) explain precisely what these consists of? Is he infiltrating brigades taking advantage of the reduced MP costs to move from ZOC to ZOC for brigades and regiments?