The Italian Job (2) - Comments from the Allies

[mc3744]

Ok, I'm asking GH to upgrade and rerun my file, the one in which I cross.

Let's see what happens [:(]

Thanks again

[Speedysteve]

Good luck with it. I hate this bug. Lost 2 divisions becuase of it. 1.62 is a necessity.

Steven

[mc3744]

Ok, we are stuck.

GH upgraded and rerun, the bug is still there. [:(]

I've just proposed GH the following house rule. Which would work also in other similar situations.

The problem is that in WitP basically you have no way to coordinate the arrival into an enemy hex of several units.
Hence, often, one unit arrives alone, get beaten and has to start over. This is really annoying and totally unrealistic.

Hence my proposal.

Once a unit gets into an enemy hex, the 'attacker' can declare that more units are following the first.
He has to declare how many. Obviously those units must have started the movement together. But it is based on trust, because there's no way to verify.
Once the 'declaration' is done, the hex is frozen.
No one can attack or move other units in or out, unless they were already moving. Normal operations resume once the declared number of units has arrived.

In the Burma situation we freeze the hex until the following units get there. If they will at all. If they don't I lost two months of war and I have no idea how to recover the situation. [:(]

[Speedysteve]

Hi MC,

The good news is that under 1.602 I have not found ANY example where the follow rule has not worked as advertised.

With your ghost unit - I believe the true unit will be in the original hex. If so you can try using another unit with the rest on follow command to move to Mandalay (?) With a bit of luck if the ghost unit remains there when they enter the hex it will return to normal.

Steven

[quiritus]

the upgrade prevent the new bug, but don't correct the existing

cioe non si verificano più di questo tipo ma non corregge gli esistenti.

the only mode to clear it is reorder that division to move from the original hex. when it arrive the ghost disappear

[Speedysteve]

As I said [;)]

[mc3744]

So we are going to 1.602 and we will use the house rule to handle the problem.
The hex is frozen till my 'following' units get there.

We'll see.

[mc3744]

Ok, we've agreed on the house rule and upgraded to 1.602

I'll be back posting on Monday.

Cheers guys [:)]

[mc3744]

June 26th, 1942

INDIA-BURMA
The offensive is stuck. The slow motion has killed it. It still managed to draw additional Japanese units, which was the initial goal anyway.
One correction. The Tank unit in Magwe, it’s not the 254th, it’s the famous 7th Armoured Brigade.

CHINA
Hengchow has fallen and with it 5 stuck units that did not want to move to the adjacent base of Chagsha. [:-]
The sky is always obscured by hundreds of Japanese bombers everywhere.

AUSTRALIA
Slow motion, but it’s a sure win. The only question is how long it will take.

PACIFIC
In the picture Christmas. I think I’ll reassign a Canadian Bde and I’ll strengthen the island a bit more.

[mc3744]

June 28th, 1942

INDIA-BURMA
The 7th Tank has been kicked out of Magwe. I’ve now reset the movement for all the units, 2nd UK Div, Burma Corps and ART to follow the ART to the hex SW of Magwe. Hopefully they’ll all get there together, in two months.
All the available bombers will now pound on the crossing for Mandalay, where my units should soon arrive.
The hopes for some gains are over, but the initial goal has been fulfilled.

CHINA
From bad to worse. Some retreating units have been cut off. Kunming is receiving the retreating units and I’m airlifting supplies there, but they are just not enough. Two divisions will try to get to Burma to bother him from the East too.

AUSTRALIA
I’m stuck in the East. He has brought in several more units and planes. The bombings are exacting quite some toll. He can LRCAP his units I can’t protect mine.
Still the western flank has some chances. I’m facing (3) enemy units and I’m moving with one division, one brigade and one tank battalion (see picture).
He brought fighters back in Daly and I reverted to night bombing. (15) on the ground this turn. I’m waiting for (64) more heavies that are repairing in Sidney, as soon as they are ready I’ll pound Daly during the day once again.

PACIFIC
No news.

STRATEGIC EVALUATION
There are several question marks at the time being.
1) July is approaching and with it the carrier upgrades, the Avengers and the Wasp is almost here. Hence I’ll have (6) CVs at full strength.
What am I going to do with them? The F4F-4 are still way inferior to the Zero’s and there are the G3/4M to be aware of as well.
I also have (8) BBs upgraded and operational, once again I don’t know what to do with them.
2) Australia.
It will take me 2-4 months to kick him out, but I eventually will. The question is whether I should try to push for it or not. All those Japanese units engaged there cannot attack India or in the Pacific.
Which in turn means that I could free several units I’m now keeping as reserve in India/Ceylon, such as the 18th UK Div or the Tank Carabineers.
Christmas situation has clearly shown that he is out of spare units. China, Burma and Australia have suck him dry. Should I ‘help’ him freeing some or should I keep them engaged?
If I had Darwin in my hands, now or in three months what would I be doing differently? Probably nothing. I’d be bombing him in Timor or Kendari or PM, now I bomb him in Daly (with excellent results btw), what’s the real difference?
Amphibious assaults cannot commence until I gain air supremacy, and that’s not going to happen before late ’42, beginning of ’43 anyway. The only place where I can put my troops at use is Australia, but maybe it could be wise to wait some more.
3) India.
It doesn’t look like he has the troops to invade India or Ceylon. Should I throw most of my British/Indian units into the Burma fight?
Should I wait till I get overwhelming force?
One variable to consider is that the longer I wait the higher the risk for the game to be over. It has happened once, it could happen again. Suppose in ’43 the Japs start seeing the situation as untenable and they give up. There goes my fun. If I attack now I can, at least, enjoy the game some more.

[kaiser73]

Wait for '43. if you think your opponent is going to quit in '43 if he doesn't get auto victory or if he starts losing well...you shouldn't have played with him to begin with [8D].

If he wins in China, he will move units from china to burma and that problably means you will never be able to advance there.

[Kereguelen]

Hi,

good that the bug-problem was solved! Would have been a pity to watch my preferred AAR die off!

Australia: I think you should go for Darwin. Land combat nets lots of VP's for destroyed squads/devices for both sides, but he needs 4:1 to win. As long as he does not manage to cut off and destroy some of your units, this works to your favour. The only real danger you face in Australia is a Japanese landing at Townsville, Brisbane etc.

India/Burma: In what shape is 7th Armoured after the retreat? Maybe you should withdraw her back to India to recover and send one of the Indian Tank Brigades instead? And I think that is too early in the game to go for a full committment of your British/Indian forces in Burma now because a Japanese landing in India (or rather Ceylon) is still a possibility. Instead let him commit his forces in Burma and attack him with your airforce. When you hit him hard with ground attacks, he should be unable to throw you back even if you only fight with limited force.

Carriers: You'll have to wait some weeks until all your torpedo squadrons have been upgraded to the Avenger. And your opponent will know this. In his stead, I'ld try to draw your carriers out from their hiding place now. Thus be careful, he might prepare a trap for them just now!

K

[AmiralLaurent]

I think beating him in N Australia will be a good idea, giving you a lot of troops points. Also if you defeat his units, he would have to evacuate and rebuild them before being able to use them again.

[mc3744]

Ok. Some replies.

The VP situation is looking quite "good". We are now 21.400 to 6.600. I'm getting closer to 3:1 than 4:1. His air losses are mounting every day. I get 30-50 points per day. I'm no longer too worried about the autovictory.

No, I really don't think he'll give up in '43, but playing the Allies you always have to face this threat.

There is no way he can now invade India. Where would he get the troops from? PI? Not enough.
I wish he tried. With the airforce I have now I'd shred him into little pieces.
I have well more than (20) fighter squadrons over (70) exp, and most my bomber and TB crews are 70-80+
I'll soon upgrade the second carrier to Seafire's.
No, he can't win in India. All ports are mined, garrisoned by at least a battalion and fortified 3+.
RN is at full power, BBs, CAs, CLAAs, carriers. If I play in my turf I win. The air pool is so full I don't know what to do with it. I have over 100 Warhawks, over 150 Hurricane's, hundreds of LBs, ...
I admit that if he came to Bombay, for example, I'd have to reorganize a bit. Still it'd be good for me.

The 7th is in excellent shape, 97/99 if I remeber correctly. Together with the 2nd UK they can pose a serious threat to his supply lines.

Yes, Chinese units would be a problem. In the last game however we agreed that China Command units cannot leave China. We did not discuss it this time because we assumed China would not have fallen. But if it does I believe we'd use the some house rule. Anyway China is not over yet and if I manage to defend Kunming I could start threatening his airfields.

The points issue for Australia is a good one [:)]. I guess I'll keep moving divisions there.

I'm not worried by a landing in Western Australia. I have enough fortifications, units and - above all - air force to stop him.
I'm around 1.000 planes on the coast. Not even the DS can get through that - I hope [;)]

Thanks everybody for your input [&o], anything else yu have, please let me know. It's always appreciated.
This game is so complicated that a different perspective is always useful.

[mc3744]

June 29th, 1942

INDIA-BURMA
One more fighter squadron has reached (80) exp, they are now (5) and more are coming. I’ll soon be able to start defending Kunming from his continuous bombing.
Meanwhile I keep bombing the Jap units waiting for me across the river (see picture).

CHINA
Usual disaster.

AUSTRALIA
Waiting to reach the hex NW of Daly.

PACIFIC
Mining and transporting.

[mc3744]

June 30th, 1942

INDIA-BURMA
My bombers are killing a good number of Japs. I hope they’ll make the difference once I cross the river.
In the picture you can see the fighter situation. Quite clearly the experience level of my fighter pilots is now high enough to withstand any invasion force. If the Japs come, they have to undergo massive air attacks before, while and after they land. That’s why I’m not too worried by an India invasion.

CHINA
I only have to hope that my pockets of resistance will hold long enough for the RAF to come back and rebalance the situation.

AUSTRALIA
Moving and suffering under the LBs from Darwin.

PACIFIC
Nothing new.

[mc3744]

July 2nd, 1942

INDIA-BURMA
Transport planes have been intercepted over Kunming. (21) shot down. [:(]
Luckily it’s July and I can upgrade the Dutch TR to Dakota I.
I’ve got to do something about those carpet bombings in China.
I believe my heavies will soon be reassigned to now duties. [;)]
I’m supposed to send back (1) CA and (2) DD, but I have 1.500 spare PPs, hence I believe I’ll keep them. What do you think? The alternative is to use those PPs to reassign (3) Canadian brigades for garrisoning duties in the Pacific.

CHINA
As you can see in the picture it’s a disaster.
Chungking has supplies, it’s in light orange.
Changsha a little.
Lanchow is decent.
Kunming is too low.
Ichang is at zero.
All the surrounded units are down to zero.
Now the only question is: how long will those pockets hold? If it’s months I have some hope to save them by hitting back with my air force, if it’s weeks China is gone for good.

AUSTRALIA
(42) additional heavies are now in Alice and an Air HQ has just arrived, together with a AA unit (which I’m sending North).
All the heavies (200+) will try to hit the hex NW of Daly, where my units should get to in two days. The only problem is that so far the heavies have refused to fly any ground attack mission.

PACIFIC
Yorktown, Hornet and Enterprise have upgraded to (36) Wildcats.
There’s a decision I’ll soon have to make: I now have more ground units and I could start fortifying additional atolls in the Pacific, or I could send those units to Australia.
In the Pacific he is in no shape to hit back, at least not by landings, only by air. In Australia it’s a big question mark. I could push him back, but he could simply retreat his units. So no points for me, only a big waste of time. While slowing down the fight in Australia I keep those Jap units engaged.
I guess I’ll see what happens once the surrounding units get one more hex done.

[Kereguelen]

Hi,

seems that there're lots of Japanese planes at Kweiyang, with fighters sweeping Kunming. Closing Kweiyang AF (from Ledo?) could work wonders for your situation in China!

Pacific: Send some Seabees to the atolls you want to fortify and let'em construct forts before you send any combat units in. Seabeas are somewhat expendable while you've lost too many LCU's by now. He'll not see your forts rising and once you've got adequate fort levels, he should not be able to vanquish any combat units garrisoning atolls then.

K

[mc3744]

Hi K,

looks like we are on the same page [;)]

Ledo is still size (4) and building, but it'll take a while to get to (5).
Dimapur however is almost (5), B-17 crews have already been informed about their new station. I'm definitely going to bomb him. [:'(]

Pacific.
It's exactly what I did at Christmas, I sent the RCT in after I had reached fort (6).
The question is whether it makes sense to have more strongpoints in the Pacific. Wouldn't it be more useful to use those units in Australia?
I'm not sure yet.

[duckenf]

There’s a decision I’ll soon have to make: I now have more ground units and I could start fortifying additional atolls in the Pacific, or I could send those units to Australia.
In the Pacific he is in no shape to hit back, at least not by landings, only by air. In Australia it’s a big question mark. I could push him back, but he could simply retreat his units. So no points for me, only a big waste of time. While slowing down the fight in Australia I keep those Jap units engaged.

If you hold those troops near Australia for awhile, once you get enough heavies to shut down his LBA bases that cover Darwin, you could make an amphibious landing near/in Darwin and bag the whole lot. Not sure how long that will be though and you'll need enough troops there to keep him engaged, but incapable of a coordinated withdrawal. I suppose if he starts pulling back your heavies could ound the port and any incomng transports.