The Italian Job (2) - Comments from the Allies

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Shame to see that MC. Has been an interesting ride!

Any word from Mods/Devs on this?

Maybe they could fix it and allow you to struggle on?

Steven

Ditto. It's been fun reading this aar.

Now you are making me feel guilty [;)]

I'll think about continuing [:D]

Anyway I made a counter proposal to GH:
- No 4E night bombing, but for city attack.
- Forget about Australia, he can play as he likes. Let's see what happens.

[Speedysteve]

Hi MC,

My thoughts and house rules for Night Bombing is none allowed except city attacks and naval attacks.

Steven

[invernomuto]

Now you are making me feel guilty

I'll think about continuing

I know that being defeated by a bug is terrible for your morale, but please, think about continuing. It's a great match (and great AAR).

Bye!!!

[mc3744]

Ciao Invernomuto, [;)]

Thanks for your appreciation of the game and of the AAR. [:)]

I'm taking this opportunity to go through a couple of issues.

First, it appears the Australian situation is not due to a bug but to a combination of game features coupled with AB Map Mod.
As the game is today I have no way to counter attack in Australia by land.
Because I cannot leave the road or, due to the distance, I’d go out of supply.
Hence I can only go for a head to head attack in Daly, where he is fortified and under air support. Plus I’d risk being encircled. I’d need at least 10-15 divisions. There’s no way I’m going to stuck such a force (which I don’t have anyway) in the middle of this rainy desert.
What appears quite clearly from this experience is that, with Andrew Map Mod, Northern Australia is at the mercy of the Japs.
You cannot move troops by sea due to the locked HQ and it takes two months by land. Once you loose it you cannot retake it, at least not by land.
Quite a perk! [:-]

Second, about the AAR.
I believe the next 4-8 months will be very boring, at least for me, hence I’m not so keen on writing about nothing.
China is already lost, he has at least one year to comfortably take out my remaining enclaves: Chungking, Changsha, Tsuyung, Lanchow, Sining. Nothing I can do about it. I’m just fighting a little bit over Sining. But once he brings in 3-500 bombers I’m gone.
India-Burma. Without night bombing I cannot keep him away because I have nothing to escort my bombers with during daylight. Hence I’ll go back to play defence, training my pilots and bomb within 2 hexes range. At least until mid ’43.

Australia. It’s game over until I can attack by sea. It means I have to wait for the F6F. Mid ’43 again.

Pacific. Same as Australia. Nothing I can do before I get the F6F.

Usually (by usually I mean in the two other games in which I’m around this time of the year) in summer ’42 I’m fighting over Timor using Northern Australia as staging area and everywhere in China.
In this game I lost China already and Northern Australia, hence there’s nothing to do or to write about.

I hope I’ll be able to overcome the bore and keep up till ’43. I can’t say I’m enjoying the game.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: mc3744

I can’t say I’m enjoying the game.

Enjoying the game is not the point, young padawan.

The point is to suffer thru the game, and become a Jedi.

If we'd all play WITP until the first frustrating, enjoyment-killing moment in the game, no one would ever get past X-mas 41 (statistically the time first bug/frustration/quirk/defeat/bitterness occurs).

<Yoda speak>

Continued this game should be.

</Yoda speak>

O.

[mc3744]

[:D][:D][:D]

Hi Oleg,

I'm not quitting the game. I'm simply not enjoying it.

As a consequence I do not want to invest additional time by writing the AAR.
Once (if ever) I'm back enjoying it, I'll be back writing about it.

[mc3744]

As you have already read on GH's AAR I decided to surrender.

I feel like I have to briefly explain my reasons.

1) Australia. It was impossible to defend it initially due to the lock on Australian Divisions and the Andrew Map, and it's now impossible to retake it by land. Due to the rule on supplies+distance and Andrew Map.

2) China is lost. Not a minor loss!

3) The last attack on Sining: 400+ airplanes from a size (4) airfield. My bad, we had no house rules.
The problem with this last is that I cannot adapt to the DS tactic. I'm just not able. I keep playing a different way and I keep getting beaten. In all my games I never place more than size*50 planes in any front line airfield.
It's not like I'm out of P-40, I still have (60) in the pool after replacing the losses. But I don't like this system.
To counter it, I'd have to wait till I also have hundreds of capable fighters, mass them all and see who has more. Which in turn means that I have to wait till spring '43 to have enough P-38 and Corsair's.
I'm not sure whether it's realistic or not, but it makes for one sided games: till he has more he plays, when I have more I play. Which is what has happened in the last 8 months of war, but for the night bombing.

One last note, I just read that GH would have attacked in China from Ledo with heavies. The thing is that I don't use Liberators (only B-17s) from size (5) airfileds. Another personal house rule.
I tried heavies from airfiled size (4) in two games, and I felt it ruined the game, hence I'm no loger doing it.

I've asked GH to play a very different game (with several house rules to limit the DS strategy to my benefit). August '42 campaign, always as Allies. I just can't play the first months of war any longer.

Should he accepts I guess we'll start a new AAR.

I'm sorry to give up after so much time invested, but I guess after loosing so much the Allies would probably sue for peace IRL too.

[mc3744]

August 1st, 1942

After a few failed morale checks [;)] the Allied Supreme Command is back on his feet. [:'(]

A new struggle lay ahead: learn to adapt to enemy strategy and think ‘out of the box’.
We shall make the Force Concentration Doctrine (FCD) ours!

INDIA-BURMA
Here is where I have the biggest chances of achieving some results, because I can rely on a chain of nearby airfields.
However I’m not able to escort my bombers because the P-40’s a re no match for the Tony’s and anyway I don’t yet have enough, only (144).
Hence the new plans for the British checkerboard.

1) Develop Ramree Is. to airfield size (4) to bring Rangoon within fighters and TB’s coverage. From there, if feasible, Andaman Island will be the next target. With the purpose of going Southbound parallel to Malaya. It’s pure speculation so far, but I have to start somewhere.
The 823rd Eng Av Bn is already there, the 251st UK Bde is loading on a Fast Transport TF to garrison the island.
2) US troops and planes are leaving Western Australia for a long and perilous journey to Colombo. I need more fighters and I need more troops (elsewhere useless): FCD!
3) I’ll play defence in the air until I have enough P-38’s to match the Tony’s, hence probably by early ’43.
4) Top secret. The US carrier TF now in Sidney will head for Colombo to join the British carriers. Mission: top secret!

AUSTRALIA
Northern Australia is beyond reach.
Western Australia will be used to train Dutch pilots over Exmouth.
New Guinea will be the next target. I’ll start bombing from Cairns and will develop Cooktown. It’ll take several months before anything can be attempted.
All units not belonging to Australian HQ and presently in Central Australia will head for Alice for reorganization and reassignment.

PACIFIC
Next target (or rather potential one) will be Fiji. I’ll try to bring, through Fast Transport from Bora Bora troops in Torangapu, (9) hexes from Fiji. If I succeed that could be my next starting point. Efate needs developing too.

The Supreme Allied Command is confident that morale checks will remain steady for a while … at least one week! [:D]

[BLurking]

Excellent News!
Keep up the good fight, remember the Allies just have to enjoy the small victories until the large ones are possible. Plan small operations just to keep up morale.
One suggestion: keep the carriers near a decent size shipyard until October(?). Those AAA upgrades make your carriers a force to be respected.

Good Luck.

[Bliztk]

I think that sending your US CVs to a backwater theather like IO is dangerous, after GH discovers the trick he can block the route back or worse, prepare an ambush.

The journey between India and Aus is long, and one damaged ship with FLT damage is at danger. If you want to be creative I would suggest the contrary, bring the RN to Pacific.

[mc3744]

I'll think about the carriers. They are still docked in Sidney. I haven't made up my mind yet.

August 2nd, 1942

INDIA-BURMA
The 23rd Chindit Bde is now available in Karachi.
In the picture the next potential route of expansion.

AUSTRALIA
(64) Liberators are loading in Perth, destination Colombo.

PACIFIC
No news.

[String]

I notice you still have three transport squadrons in SF. Get them to India ASAP so they can fly supplies to China. The best way for this would be to ship them to PH, wait a few days when they repair, then fly them all the way to Perth and then ship them from there, be sure to send some AK's ot Perth if there aren't any there.

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: String

I notice you still have three transport squadrons in SF. Get them to India ASAP so they can fly supplies to China. The best way for this would be to ship them to PH, wait a few days when they repair, then fly them all the way to Perth and then ship them from there, be sure to send some AK's ot Perth if there aren't any there.

On their way, thanks [:)]

[invernomuto]

August 1st, 1942

After a few failed morale checks the Allied Supreme Command is back on his feet.

That's an excellent news!
[8D][8D]

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: mc3744

August 1st, 1942

After a few failed morale checks [;)] the Allied Supreme Command is back on his feet. [:'(]

I never believed that you'ld quit[:)]!

1) Develop Ramree Is. to airfield size (4) to bring Rangoon within fighters and TB’s coverage. From there, if feasible, Andaman Island will be the next target. With the purpose of going Southbound parallel to Malaya. It’s pure speculation so far, but I have to start somewhere.
The 823rd Eng Av Bn is already there, the 251st UK Bde is loading on a Fast Transport TF to garrison the island.

Be careful not to overcommit in Burma. If he notices that there're many British/Indian units in Burma, he may go for India. Would be a dangerous course for him because he'ld have to face experienced RAF pilots, but nevertheless he should have enough time to conquer Trincomalee before your short-legged RAF fighters arrive in numbers.

2) US troops and planes are leaving Western Australia for a long and perilous journey to Colombo. I need more fighters and I need more troops (elsewhere useless): FCD!

Dangerous indeed! Even a small Japanese carrier raid could cost you too much. Without air cover available (that is: carriers), I'ld not try this now!

3) I’ll play defence in the air until I have enough P-38’s to match the Tony’s, hence probably by early ’43.

Well, not many places for air offensives now, but you still have to kill as many Japanese pilots as possible!

4) Top secret. The US carrier TF now in Sidney will head for Colombo to join the British carriers. Mission: top secret!

Would make sense if you want to escort a convoy with planes and other stuff (at least halfway until the RN carriers can take over), but otherwise?

PACIFIC
Next target (or rather potential one) will be Fiji. I’ll try to bring, through Fast Transport from Bora Bora troops in Torangapu, (9) hexes from Fiji. If I succeed that could be my next starting point. Efate needs developing too.

Once you know where KB is, it may be worth to try to directly attack Fiji with US forces. I don't think that your opponent can have much there (well, with GH one never knows, but you could try to find out before...).

The Supreme Allied Command is confident that morale checks will remain steady for a while … at least one week! [:D]

This lies in the nature of playing the Allies in WITP[;)]

[mc3744]

August 5th, 1942

Hi K! [:)]
Thanks. I wasn’t so sure. [;)]
Replies to your comments below.

INDIA-BURMA
I’m not too concerned by a Japanese offensive in Ceylon or India.
In 2-3 days I can bring the fighters on station.
Right now I have 4x(16) Spitfire squadrons with 78-80 exp. And the equivalent in Hurricane’s. Plus (144) P-40’s with exp 68-75. Add to that (8) Wirraway’s squadrons already at 75+ and tons of TB’s and LB’s.
Ceylon is at fortifications level (9) with some (400) AP, not much, but with mines and fortifications he’d have to stay on station for some time to conquer it. Away from air ground based support.
I really wish he’d go for it.
India is very well defended, mines and infantry units everywhere.
GH is most probably too good a player for me, but I still think I can defend India.
I’ve just discovered something very good. Pontianak is still in my hands and with air support too (see picture). Liberators can fly from Australia to Pontianak and from there to India [:D]. (16) are already in DH, (96) will be there in two days. I’ll then have some 250+ heavies. They should help the struggle for Burma.
As to the Indian Ocean. I’ve asked GH for one additional house rule. Since the map doesn’t allow to stay clear of Java and Sumatra, which could easily be done IRL, I’ve asked GH to consider the last two Western hexes as off map hexes. A sort of virtual safe passage in the Ocean. I’m confident he’ll accept.

The carriers are useless without the Hellcats, GH is way too good to be defeated in a carriers engagement. Right now he has better pilots and better planes, I need to have – at least – better planes to stand a chance.
Hence I’m only going to use the CV’s to try to ambush a smaller force. If he doesn’t know I’m there he may bring a force strong enough for the British but not for the combined fleet. In the Pacific I’ll never enjoy the surprise.

AUSTRALIA
I’m moving Liberators and Dakota’s to India, plus some nice US units.
The carriers remain in Sidney, at least for now.

PACIFIC
The first Fast Transport TF (21 DD’s and DMS’s) has left Bora Bora for Toganrapu. Pioneers on board.
It’ll take 2-3 weeks before the atoll will be safe enough from a sudden Japanese attack, but so far it’s worth trying. If I succeed I’ll have a base from which I can attack Fiji and Canton. I’m calling this operation ‘Snake’.

[mc3744]

I know GH is asking on his AAR , so I'll ask here as well.

I proposed a house rule to allow safe passage between India and Australia.

My opinion is that the Allies could (and did) easily find a safe passage to India by going nearer to Africa.
GH replies that since he cannot conquer Africa he has no way to prevent my passage.
He also argues that then his Chinese units should be allowed to leave China.
I do believe the the Chinese units represent a political issue. Such as not using Soviet airfields or having locked HQ for the Allies.
While the passage represents a map issue. I cannot get out of recon range by just a few hexes.

Please let me have your opinion.

Thanks

[Bliztk]

You dont need to move troops from India to Australia, if you want to reinforce SEAC, you can move the unit to West coast and change the HQ to Southeast Asia, the unit will appear in Karachi in 60 days, ***with no risks involved***, of course you can do it if you have spare PPs

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

You dont need to move troops from India to Australia, if you want to reinforce SEAC, you can move the unit to West coast and change the HQ to Southeast Asia, the unit will appear in Karachi in 60 days, ***with no risks involved***, of course you can do it if you have spare PPs

Yep, I know, but it sounds gamey.
However if we'll agree to stick to the game map limits I'll go for it.

[Bliztk]

It`s not gamey, its here to represent the Cape Horn route. If you want to reinforce India it`s thats the way