Rise of the Sheep! JocMeister(A) vs. Obvert(J)

[JocMeister]

Just to clarify. By "BB TF" I mean a SCTF containing BBs. Not bombardment TF. I thought I read somewhere that any TF set to a waypoint will stop there during one phase before continuing to the next Waypoint. I may have gotten that completely wrong though!

[JocMeister]

If I am incorrect and they move on which your post seem to indicate. Is there anyway to make them "stop" at a certain location after a high speed run like the one I ordered?

[ny59giants]

Waypoints don't have lingering, just refueling options. Patrol Zones have them for up to 9 days.

It would be nice to be able to form a TF or two from the hex a player has a bunch of CV TFs in. They could run to hex "X" during the night and then attempt to get back to the hex the CV TFs are now in at the end of the daylight naval movement phase.

[JocMeister]

Yeah, I might have confused waypoints with patrol zones...this can end up badly with 8 Fast BBs outside CV cover and within Japanese Naval LBA. Only hope I have is that I set the BBs with home ports to the west. So they SHOULD withdraw West and not South. [:(]

I guess there is no way to get the ships to move as I want?

[JocMeister]

Crap is all I have to say...

None of the BBs found the Moppo bombardments. The "Sweeping" DDs did though and took a chunk out of the DDs screens. So at least the bombardments never got to Moppo. But the Iowas of course ended up in Indian country for no reason what so ever. Full load of OPS. Fuel above 80%.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 101,54

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 107 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 6
J2M3 Jack x 10
P1Y2 Frances x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Iowa, Torpedo hits 1
BB Missouri, Torpedo hits 1
BB Wisconsin, Torpedo hits 1

No idea of the damage yet. Hopefully nothing critical. This TF DID of course had plenty of fuel and plenty of OPS. But apparently all they could make at full speed in two phases was a whooping 5 hexes. The other BB TF on the other hand which was low on fuel is half way to the Okinawas moving probably 18 hexes...[8|] Stupid game.

[Encircled]

Maybe having all the SCTF at Moppo as the patrol zone, with 0 reaction might stop his bombardments?

Not sure how you would LRCAP it effectively though

[Captain Cruft]

You need to pay attention to the various "retreating due to" and "resuming course to" type messages in the replay. These can affect movement greatly in this uber-dense environment.

[JocMeister]

No message whatsoever. They just decided to stay there. [:(]

To really rub it in this is from "my replay"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 101,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 19
P1Y2 Frances x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB New Jersey
BB Iowa

[Crackaces]

The design of this game is very very interesting to me. There are the moment to moment swings in momentum
and things that affect operations but the strategic effects of tactical decisions are often very subtle in this game.
Often some of the most critical decisions take a lot of time to fulminate into fruition and go unnoticed in the
haze of the day to day tactical swings.

Herman Goering got lost that way .. focused on multiple tactical momentum swings he lost sight of the original plan
to dominate airspace over England and changed his strategy multiple times .. much to the defeat .. of course if he
knew his original strategy of bombing airfields was working he would have continued his strategy ...but FOW interceded

I am not sure of the overall strategy of the Korea operations .. but I can say that:

1. With LOC's to major LI centers and a high level of operations in the area there is a limit of supplies. I do not know that limit.

2. Suddenly concentrating forces in a area without supplementing supplies causes a very insidious strategic change in supply flow.
it takes awhile. But big stacks of LCU's seem to me to have priority and will start drawing supplies at maximum distances [what I do not know]
and subsequently supplies begin pulsing through the LOC at a cost. LCU's in non-base hexs seem to have priority over bases unless the "hoard" button ?overrides?
So my point being that concentrations of troops pull supplies at great distances with added overhead of supply loss due to waste.
That takes some time to fully appreciate .. forget the FOW .. this game feature is hard for the same side player to appreciate
It takes me hours and Tracker to see how supplies are insidiously moving as LOC's change and the algorithm recalculates LCU demand vs. supplies available

3. Supply is key to the ground war ...Not only adjusted AV .. but it appears to me that unsupplied units do not recover disruption very well ..

Just my .02 looking beyond a couple of BB's getting torped ..

[Lokasenna]

I would guess that they got stuck due to ops - did they refuel the DDs at all?

If not ops limits, I have seen TFs stop at the destination for a day, if it was a suitable distance away...

Or it could have been your waypoint settings. The way you describe is probably not how I would have done it, but it's hard to tell as I'm not sure I understand exactly how you set it up.

[aztez]

First off.. congrats on getting married! [:)]

As for the game...Hmmmmmm... I warned you about going so close with carriers to the home islands. He still has a lot of stuff and those dark red icons spell troubles.

All in all considering I think you did good nailing some of his assets but don't trust the game since the flak seems abysmal at best.

You should soon start recieving tons of bombers of all sorts... than just blast him.. worry about the losses later and go for it. You should be able to pull that off since you have many supporting airfields. I had to fly bombers from Marianas without escorts. Yes, it was bloody but worth every drop.

...I know pretty lame suggestion but pretty much spells the obvious.

As for those battleships.. go figure the game does stuff like that. That japanese island held near Moppo might have had something to do with it though... I have few similar experiences.

Keep up the good fight though and now you can see how frustrating it is being out produced by the japanese even in 1945's! [:D]

[JocMeister]

Thanks guys. Have to admit those 3 TTs hit me pretty hard. Big events like that should happen because of mistakes or good play from your opponent. Not some inexplainable behavior from the game engine. I already lost 10 or so CVEs (although all but 4 was already damaged) on account of that. I kind of feel I have had my share of those groin kicks for this month.

Just got the turn back. Nothing in sinking condition but Wisconsin and Missouri are out for the war. They have a full load of OPS and had a full load before moving out. Nothing is refueled. They just moved to their destination 5 hexes at full speed and sat there. The BB2 TF that had less fuel and the exact same setting but destination set to 1 hex south of BB1 are halfway to Okinawa.

Sucks.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The design of this game is very very interesting to me. There are the moment to moment swings in momentum
and things that affect operations but the strategic effects of tactical decisions are often very subtle in this game.
Often some of the most critical decisions take a lot of time to fulminate into fruition and go unnoticed in the
haze of the day to day tactical swings.

Herman Goering got lost that way .. focused on multiple tactical momentum swings he lost sight of the original plan
to dominate airspace over England and changed his strategy multiple times .. much to the defeat .. of course if he
knew his original strategy of bombing airfields was working he would have continued his strategy ...but FOW interceded

I am not sure of the overall strategy of the Korea operations .. but I can say that:

1. With LOC's to major LI centers and a high level of operations in the area there is a limit of supplies. I do not know that limit.

2. Suddenly concentrating forces in a area without supplementing supplies causes a very insidious strategic change in supply flow.
it takes awhile. But big stacks of LCU's seem to me to have priority and will start drawing supplies at maximum distances [what I do not know]
and subsequently supplies begin pulsing through the LOC at a cost. LCU's in non-base hexs seem to have priority over bases unless the "hoard" button ?overrides?
So my point being that concentrations of troops pull supplies at great distances with added overhead of supply loss due to waste.
That takes some time to fully appreciate .. forget the FOW .. this game feature is hard for the same side player to appreciate
It takes me hours and Tracker to see how supplies are insidiously moving as LOC's change and the algorithm recalculates LCU demand vs. supplies available

3. Supply is key to the ground war ...Not only adjusted AV .. but it appears to me that unsupplied units do not recover disruption very well ..

Just my .02 looking beyond a couple of BB's getting torped ..

I had high hopes Erik would be suffering from supply restraints but this offensive makes me wonder. Why pour in 500.000 men if you don´t have supply for it? So perhaps he is not so badly off that I would have thought.

That being said I do hope he hasn´t done the proper calculations and will end up in a big crash and burn. [:D]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: aztez

First off.. congrats on getting married! [:)]

As for the game...Hmmmmmm... I warned you about going so close with carriers to the home islands. He still has a lot of stuff and those dark red icons spell troubles.

All in all considering I think you did good nailing some of his assets but don't trust the game since the flak seems abysmal at best.

You should soon start recieving tons of bombers of all sorts... than just blast him.. worry about the losses later and go for it. You should be able to pull that off since you have many supporting airfields. I had to fly bombers from Marianas without escorts. Yes, it was bloody but worth every drop.

...I know pretty lame suggestion but pretty much spells the obvious.

As for those battleships.. go figure the game does stuff like that. That japanese island held near Moppo might have had something to do with it though... I have few similar experiences.

Keep up the good fight though and now you can see how frustrating it is being out produced by the japanese even in 1945's! [:D]

Thanks aztez!

You did warn me. But stubborn as I am... [;)]

I´m still pretty happy with the Korea invasion though. At least I will be if I can avoid total destruction! [:D] It has forced Erik to divide his attention and that has given me loads of opportunities. Over 6000 AC destroyed in 20 days is a pretty good haul. He losing between 50-100 fighters PER DAY right now just to the sweeps hitting his lower LRCAP in Korea and over his fleet.

If I hadn´t gone to Korea I would be facing an absolute wall of 3500 Fighters over the HI.

I am pounding with everything I have right now. One of us will break eventually and whoever does won´t recover before the game is up.

Yes, being outproduced in 45 is not something I envisioned when I started this game! Not a pleasant experience! [X(]

[JocMeister]

I should also add here that all the other smaller TFs moved just as predicted with waypoints and all. And that is despite running in to several combats. Go figure...

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I should also add here that all the other smaller TFs moved just as predicted with waypoints and all. And that is despite running in to several combats. Go figure...

I think you got lucky that they did [;)].

Was this TF the one you were worried about? If so, I'd say that it wasn't some inexplicable quirk of the engine after all, and just the realization of your fears. A teachable moment! Looks like it didn't hurt very badly - no heavy damage, at least.

[JocMeister]

Lokasenna,

No this was the TF I was the least worried about. The DDs had around 80% fuel. Full load of OPS. It was the other BB TF that had me worried. That one is halfway to the Okinawas. As are the other smaller TFs. So every TF except this one moved just as predicted.

This one didn´t arrive at its destination until day. So it either moved very little or not at all during the night phase. It didn´t refuel. It didn´t react. It just sat there. I would most definitively say that this was some quirk of the engine. Not the first time and not the last time. But the timing of it is horrible. And they don´t need to be hurt very badly at this point to be out for the rest of the war.

I know these things happen from time to time. But there is a limit to how much of it I can take. I already lost more then anyone should when my CVEs scattered all over the place leaving the entire fleet including all Amphibs without air cover a couple of weeks back.

This is not how the game should be decided. Enough is enough. I´ve sent the turn back to Erik but this is the last major losses I will accept happening like this.

[Lokasenna]

Well, you did send them under LBA and outside of range of LRCAP... it happens.

Maybe it was a commander difference? More aggression, perhaps? Who knows.

[JocMeister]

Yeah, "It happens". My point being that I have had enough of it for now. Fearing the engine more then my opponent doesn´t make for a good time and it shouldn´t have to be like that.

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]6th June -45[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

I already covered the fate of the Iowas so I won´t bring that up again.

------------------------
Korea
------------------------
My smaller TFs race ahead and encounter lots of different TFs including the 3 CAs and the Yamatos exchanging fire. Most importantly we knock out 6 more Japanese DDs of which 2 were confirmed sunk! We also sink 7 "Es", 7 SCs and a couple of MLs and MTBs.

Allied losses are 2 Fletchers and a British DD.

In total we encountered only 8 DDs escorting the CAs and Yamatos. 2 of those were sunk and 4 suffered heavy fires or worse. Only 2 escaped without damage.

In trying to do so much with his air force the failed bombardment of Moppo yesterday meant that the Airfield is now open! I won´t get a better opportunity then this. We land reinforcements tomorrow. 4 US IDs, 2 USMC ID, loads of AA, all the Engineer fragments, some BFs and 500.000 supply. If I´m successful this probably tips the balance in Korea from "precarious" to "secure". So its well worth the risk.

Most critical will be to make sure the airfield stays open during the night. I hope Erik will go chasing the Iowas instead of trying another bombardment. Or that he is so short on DDs he doesn´t dare risk his BBs/CAs without a screen.

I´ve dedicated a large portion of the fleet to prevent any possible bombardments. 8 CAs, 12 CLs 50 DDs and 80 PTs will try to stop any bombardments before they can reach Moppo. If I can keep the airfield open in the morning I´m predicting a very bad day for the Japanese air force. So a big day tomorrow. If I can get the troops onshore I think Korea will be safe and Eriks gamble failed. 6 new IDs will make things very difficult for him. The 2 massive AA BDEs will certainly help too don´t you think Michael? [:D]

------------------------
China
------------------------
The Chinese Superstack have reached Tuyun and will rail towards Changsha. Many of the Corps are useless though with only a couple of AV. These will be used for Garrison duties in conquered bases.

Hong Kong is cleared out. Troops will turn back around and help deal with the Canton stack.

------------------------
Strat bombing
------------------------
Another 50 HI and 150 LI burned down at Osaka. Fires have started to burn down now though with only 3500 fires still going. Hopefully they will burn out with a bang!

Big raids over Korea tomorrow hitting Keijo and Mukden. Targets are the LI and HI there. I´ve switched the B29s to nightbombing again to give them a bit of a "rest". Hopefully there won´t be any NFs up and about. I wan´t to make supply as difficult as possible for Erik in Korea.

The other 4Es are switched to a ground support role for now.

------------------------
Air war
------------------------
Another good day. 171 Japanese losses for 97 allied. Sweeps continue tomorrow.