Malaria and Morale

[Panther Bait]

It would be nice if the different "modes" that an LCU can be assigned (i.e. Combat, Move, Strat Move, Reserve, Rest) would have an effect.  So that a deployed LCU in Combat mode, even in a base hex, might be susceptible to Malaria to simulate walking patrols or sleeping in foxholes, but a resting LCU might have little-to-no effects from malaria since they probably have better shelter/medicine available.

[Czert3]

Your idea of different modes of LCU is very good, I like it. 
Doesnt matter of mode - morale will raise, as long as unit is not in combat. Different modes only affect fatigue/distruption and regaining of morale.
And modes affect another atributes - like speed of move, vulnebality to uxexpected attack...etc.

[John Lansford]

I suppose if the troops are sitting in a swamp, though, even if they aren't fighting they won't be too happy about it.  The 1st Marine Division basically did that on Guadalcanal after the island had been controlled; they were sent back there for R&R before going to the Palaus and when it rained their tents were awash.
 
For fun they'd hunt the thousands of rats and kill the land crabs that infested every dry piece of ground there.

[Panther Bait]

I'd definitely agree that there were better places for R&R than Guadalcanal from what I have heard.  I'd much rather be in Hawaii or some Pacific atoll like Ulithi.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I suppose if the troops are sitting in a swamp, though, even if they aren't fighting they won't be too happy about it.  The 1st Marine Division basically did that on Guadalcanal after the island had been controlled; they were sent back there for R&R before going to the Palaus and when it rained their tents were awash.

For fun they'd hunt the thousands of rats and kill the land crabs that infested every dry piece of ground there.

But was their morale degraded because of it? And that was before the base was 'built out' like it can be in the game.

At the least, let the morale maintain itself. Having my base force at Guadacanal for a year after combat should not mean that their morale will be 15 (out of 100). Yeah, the crabs and rats and rain are tough, but not to that extent.

[John Lansford]

Actually the men quoted in the book were so sick and tired of being at Guadalcanal that they looked forward to the chance to go somewhere else, even if that meant combat on yet another Pacific island.  I'd say they certainly weren't happy to be there with the rats and the swamp and the land crabs...

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Actually the men quoted in the book were so sick and tired of being at Guadalcanal that they looked forward to the chance to go somewhere else, even if that meant combat on yet another Pacific island.  I'd say they certainly weren't happy to be there with the rats and the swamp and the land crabs...

17 morale out of 100 morale not happy?

I see your point though, and that is why one of my original arguments on page 1 was that if nothing else, morale should atleast maintain when at fully built out, well supplied and out of combat bases.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

There are no morale problems with land units in AE.

Still hoping for some clarification on this? [&:]

[Andy Mac]

Sorry guys we are all busy with AI not really got much time to come and talk to everyone.
 
 

[Chad Harrison]

No prob Andy. When you get a chance, just drop by and let us know why there are no more problems with morale

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

There are no morale problems with land units in AE.

Its been nearly three months since I dug this one up, so Ill give it a shot again.

Any explanation on this? I noticed in the most recent rash of screenshots that a morale factor was still listed for land units.

Thanks in advance.

Chad

[Andy Mac]

We are testing and I have to be honest morale has neverbeen a problem for me even in stock so
 
1. Not aware of any chnages
2. If we have I am not noticing any difference
3. Not noticing any problems so far
 
 

[BigJ62]

I never said anything about morale being removed, however a few minor changes were made to help units recover morale, reduce fatigue, repair disabled devices and reduce disruption primarily by using operations mode “Rest”.

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

There are no morale problems with land units in AE.

Its been nearly three months since I dug this one up, so Ill give it a shot again.

Any explanation on this? I noticed in the most recent rash of screenshots that a morale factor was still listed for land units.

Thanks in advance.

Chad

[treespider]

Here is some good anecdotal stuff in regards to this topic...

Love Company, 3rd battalion, 382 Infantry Regt, 96th Division was part of the initial wave that landed at/near Dulag on Leyte Island on October 20, 1944.

From October 20, 1944 through October 31st , 3rd battalion was either involved actively in the attack or serving as a regimental reserve. On November 1st, 3rd battalion was station on the flank of 96th Divisions advance toward the hamlet of Digahongan and set up active patrols. On November 5th , 382 regiment advances from Digahongan on towards the town of Dagami and the heights beyond in an effort to eliminate the Japanese 16th Division. On November 22nd ,3rd battalion 382nd is relieved from Front line duty and placed into Division reserve near Dagami in a hamlet called Hiabangan.

The following are some quotes picking up at this point in the narrative

Excerpts from p. 120 – 135

“We had been relieved in time for Thanksgiving holiday, truly our thanksgiving. Late that afternoon, our cooks had set up a field kitchen and we were served salty ham, fried eggs and apples. This was the first fresh food we had had since our early morning breakfast on LST 745 before landing on Leyte.

We continued to carry our weapons and had to be on the alert, as armed Japanese stragglers were still in the area. Rain fell again during the night. I don’t believe anyone imagined that Leyte could be so wet. It rained 35 inches during the first 40 days of the Leyte campaign.

The next morning November 23rd, 1944 was Thanksgiving. Still wet and soggy, I looked at my fatigues and they were about done for, rotting and falling apart. I did feel better, as my minor fever had passed, and by some miracle there were still no signs of jungle rot that affected the majority of our men…

…Battle casualties and non-battle casualties – sickness and disease – had reduced our foxhole strength to a little below 50 percent of those that had landed on October 20th. The overall poor physical condition of our remaining men had lowered our combat efficiency even further. The latent effect of our exposure to tropical diseases continued well after our relief from battle and by the end of the year our disease and illness non-battle casualties totaled 60. My slim frame had lost 20 pounds, being down to 130 pounds…

The next ten days were uneventful. We still had not received any tents, but we improvised a shelter, and the rain seemed to diminish. We wondered if the end of the rainy season was in sight.

My 20th birthday arrived on Saturday November 25th. I considered myself fortunate to be in good health and to have survived combat unscathed. A birthday present was the issuance of new fatigue pants and shirt. Without regret, I threw my combat weary uniform onto a bonfire. My boots were in tough shape, but their replacement was not yet in sight…

…On November 30th came and Love Company received 28 enlisted men replacements. Of these 7 were Privates 1st Class transferred from other outfits in the Southwest Pacific and 21 were recent Infantry Basic Training graduates fresh from the United States…

By December 1st our life had become quite routine in our positions at Hiabangan. We still had not received any tents, so our discomfiture of being wet a good part of the time did not disappear. However the quantity of fresh food continued to improve, and some of our less seriously wounded or ill comrades began to return to Company L. The more seriously wounded were hospitalized in New Guinea and were transferred to the Detachment of Patients at the respective hospitals…

…We also received our duffel bags…I immediately was able to start using my mess kit at the daily hot meals prepared for breakfast and supper.”

On December 6th Company L is moved by truck to the area of the Burauen airfields to assist in defending / eliminating a Japanese Para drop attack on the complex. The airfields were initially used by the air force to support the Leyte operations. However the ground in the area was soggy resulting in a disproportionate number of Ops losses so the air force moved operations to Tacloban and Dulag.

“With the Japanese threat to the station hospital abated, Company L, was issued square squad tents. Also to our surprise we each received a conventional Army cot. With each Mortar Squad having its own tent, we had plenty of space. This was easy living compared to sleeping in a foxhole covered by two shelter halves.

On December 17th a heavy rainstorm developed…(Next two paragraphs talk about the typhoon that hits the fleet at Leyte)…
…
December 18th was spent cleaning up and restoring our facilities after the typhoon. Our area and the 116th Station Hospital area were a soggy mess. Fortunately we were in an area free from palm trees as many were felled and windblown palm branches littered the ground. We pitched in on a major effort to reset our kitchen tent and to help hospital personnel reset several of their large tents that had been blown down. By evening our kitchen was again operating and our cooks managed to prepare a good supper.

During this period in December, the delayed effects from our exposure to tropical illness continued, and a stream of Company L men – from one to three daily – were going to sick call. While we were losing these men, there was also a steady trickle of men back to the company from hospitalization. However, overall, the effect was that our “present for duty strength dropped to 132 men on December 23rd – in spite of having received 28 replacements on November 30th.”

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

I never said anything about morale being removed, however a few minor changes were made to help units recover morale, reduce fatigue, repair disabled devices and reduce disruption primarily by using operations mode “Rest”.

So, if I leave the troops originally stationed at Port Moresby there for the duration of the war with 'Rest' mode, after it is fully built out, will the units have morale 1 by the end of the war?

Or could we just have the 'Over 10 combined size = no morale loss' instated?

Just suggestions. Obviously this does not make or break the game in the same way that the land combat and A2A combat routines did in stock WitP, its just a part of the game that never made sense to me.

Thanks for the promp replies.

Chad

[esteban]

I agree that current Malaria mechanics are messed up. Malaria shouldn't cause morale loss at bases larger than 2-3 total size.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

One of my biggest frustrations with WitP is morale loss for troops in a large, built out and fortified base in a malaria zone.

I am not talking about component disablements. That seems to work really nicely for a unit out of combat, with enough support and supplies in a malaria zone, but in a built out base. It is typically only one or two units of each type. That makes sense and *feels* right.

What doesnt *feel* right, or make sense is if you take that same unit, put in on Lunga, Port Moresby, Lae or Rabual after they are fully built out, have plenty of supplies (100's of thousands of tons), plenty of support, and are out of combat but their morale will continue to drop regardless.

Just thought I would dig this old one up too!

Last time I brought this up, the AI was dominating the dev teams time and as we all remember, it was a sad time of few updates on AE [:D]

Now that the floodgates have been opened, I thought I would dig this up again.

The question remains:

1. Do ground forces lose morale while in Malaria zones but in large bases, fully supplied, out of combat and fully supported? Or do the new OPS modes have more to do with controlling this?

For anyone who wants to do a self, double check on this simply open any WitP game and look at the morale of your troops at Port Moresby post 1942. In my PBEM game, Moresby is fully built out, out of combat, and all the troops there have morale in the teens or lower. I dont think this was intended to be the case by the original developers.

And now that we know morale plays a big part in combat resolutions, this is even more of an important issue.

Thanks in advance!

Chad

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Just thought I would dig this old one up too!

Compared to the "Patience of Chad", Job comes across as a whiny, spoiled 5-year old. Perhaps somebody on the team could simply give a one word answer to this question:

"Has AE specifically addressed the impact of malaria zones upon morale?" If not, we'll all move on and this thread can die a quiet death. But if it WAS addressed, then we'll patiently await a more in-depth explanation - when and if you have time to provide it.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Kull

If not, we'll all move on and this thread can die a quiet death.

Ah, but its been so much fun digging it up over the past year! [:D]

[Flying Tiger]

I'm still waiting for an answer on this too Chad. And still admiring your patience and perseverance!!
 
I say again - units NOT in combat (ie. no enemy units in their hex) in a base with say port 3, AF 3 or better, should not suffer penalty from malaria zones. Units in combat, YES! (they're living in foxholes/jungle). Units in totally undeveloped bases, YES!! (they're living in tents/jungle).