Malaria and Morale

[Chad Harrison]

I brought this up in the Land section above, but that was back on page one and we have all moved on to page 19 now [:)]

One of my biggest frustrations with WitP is morale loss for troops in a large, built out and fortified base in a malaria zone.

I am not talking about component disablements. That seems to work really nicely for a unit out of combat, with enough support and supplies in a malaria zone, but in a built out base. It is typically only one or two units of each type. That makes sense and *feels* right.

What doesnt *feel* right, or make sense is if you take that same unit, put in on Lunga, Port Moresby, Lae or Rabual after they are fully built out, have plenty of supplies (100's of thousands of tons), plenty of support, and are out of combat but their morale will continue to drop regardless.

Is this intentional? There were many areas of the South Pacific that the game considers 'malaria' which became huge, built out bases for the Allied advance and troops were sent there for R&R after combat operations. Lunga and Moresby come to mind immediately. In WitP, if you send troops there for R&R, instead of gaining morale, they will loose it. In my PBEM game, I will purposely avoid leaving troops pernamently at a major captured bases because they will eventually loose all their morale, which takes forever to regain. This includes even base forces. Rotating base and/or combat forces periodically would fix this, but should not be necessary.

Now, WitP:AE is giving us something new that we did not have before to possibly help with this: OP Mode Rest/Training. If I have units at a large, built out base in a Malaria zone which are set to Rest/Training, will they still loose morale? If nothing else, it should atleast stay the same. No gain, no loss. Just maintain.

This is deep codded too as far as I know, so theres not way to just mod it in if I want it there. Changing Rabual, Lunga, Moresby, Lae and such to temperate zone is not a solution either.

Heres hopefull [:D]

Chad

[Andy Mac]

Not sure I have not looked at this one I will take a look

[Rainer]

Might be worth to be looked at.
Example: Port Moresby Defense Brigade, fully supplied, June 1945. Morale: 7
Disruption 16, Fatigue 37.

Of course, no effect on the game. Still, it looks sort of silly.
Cheers
Rainer

[Chad Harrison]

Once again, thanks for taking a look Andy.
 
My biggest question is whether this is an intentional feature (ie. morale loss of units out of combat, in supply and a base w/ combined size over 10). If a base is considered big enough ingame to house 999,999 supply and 999,999 fuel without spoilage, you cant tell me that malaria is still a significant problem with base infastructure that big.

[Mike Scholl]

For a Japanese Base, it's possibly correct. For an Allied Base, part of the supplies arriving in 1943-45 would be DDT to control the local mosquitoes...

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

For a Japanese Base, it's possibly correct. For an Allied Base, part of the supplies arriving in 1943-45 would be DDT to control the local mosquitoes...

Which would explain the squad and component disablements for the Japanease throughout the war, not morale loss for either side. Again, this is only in very large, built out bases such as Port Moresby and Lunga for the Allies, or Rabual for the Japanease. Actual cases of malaria would be very low I would imagine due to the troops being out of combat and *in* base, not out in the junge as the game would have you believe. Any cases of malaria could be treated quickly and properly as a base of that size would have sufficient medical treatment.

[Gen.Hoepner]

I remember once they told us that as soon as a base reached level 10 (port+AF) the malaria wouldn't have been anymore a problem...this feature never worked

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

For a Japanese Base, it's possibly correct. For an Allied Base, part of the supplies arriving in 1943-45 would be DDT to control the local mosquitoes...

Any cases of malaria could be treated quickly and properly as a base of that size would have sufficient medical treatment.

Are we talking about the same IJA? The one I'm familiar with was generally short of everything but patients

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

For a Japanese Base, it's possibly correct. For an Allied Base, part of the supplies arriving in 1943-45 would be DDT to control the local mosquitoes...

Any cases of malaria could be treated quickly and properly as a base of that size would have sufficient medical treatment.

Are we talking about the same IJA? The one I'm familiar with was generally short of everything but patients

But was it a significant enough of a problem for bases in lets say, DEA/SRA, who were out of combat, in supply, properly supported but were still loosing morale? Again, I think that the effects of malaria belong with the component disablement, not a penalty against morale while units are in large bases and well supplied and supported.

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

I remember once they told us that as soon as a base reached level 10 (port+AF) the malaria wouldn't have been anymore a problem...this feature never worked

My point exactly. I dont think that how morale loss with large bases is currently working is a intended feature of the game. Which is why I am trying to get someone to look at it [:D]

I am certain that a close examination will show that the intended feature is exactly what both of us have said: once a base reaches a certain point, it is treated as a temperate zone as far as malaria is concerned. But that is currently not the case.

Again, this is not a discussion about disablements, which I think work just fine. This is about units who are out of combat, in supply, with adequate support, who are in a large base (combined size of 10+) but who continue to loose morale, which does not feel right or make sense.

[The Gnome]

But was it a significant enough of a problem for bases in lets say, DEA/SRA, who were out of combat, in supply, properly supported but were still loosing morale? Again, I think that the effects of malaria belong with the component disablement, not a penalty against morale while units are in large bases and well supplied and supported.

I would say that morale loss should not be tied directly to malaria at all. The loss of morale should come from the casualties - whether that's from malaria or enemy action.

So as long as there is a small casualty rate from malaria there should be some modest loss of morale, scaling up as the number of casualties increase.

[ChezDaJez]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

For a Japanese Base, it's possibly correct. For an Allied Base, part of the supplies arriving in 1943-45 would be DDT to control the local mosquitoes...

Any cases of malaria could be treated quickly and properly as a base of that size would have sufficient medical treatment.

Are we talking about the same IJA? The one I'm familiar with was generally short of everything but patients

You are correct. Imperial Japanese forces were perrenially short of anti-malarial drugs such as quinine even though Java was the world's leading producer at the time. This was especially true later in the war when the Japanese could not keep their garrisons supplied.

In response to some of the other posters, I would say that the impact on morale related to malaria would be less on Japanese forces than allied due to their style of training and culture however disablement should be substantially greater for the Japanese than Allied.

Chez

[Chad Harrison]

Just wanted to clarify something. I am not asking for a change. I think upon investigation in the code, you will find that the current system is not the intended mechanic for malaria. I see this as just as much of a serious bug as any of the other serious issues with WitP.
 
As Hoepner pointed out, I think that the intended play mechanic is for malaria afffects to stop once a certain combined base size is reached. Both disablements and morale degradation. If you can store 999,999 supllies and 999,999 fuel at a base without spoilage, that base has plenty of infrastructure and housing facilities for any base troops stationed there. I think the current system makes perfect sense with small, undeveloped bases for both combat and base forces. I dont think that that aspect needs to be changed.
 
So its not a change request. Its a bug fix request [:D]

[Chad Harrison]

Get a chance to check it out?

Not trying to be a nuisance. Just curious. [:D]

[Andy Mac]

No sorry neck deep in AI nothing else is getting in the way until we get it working so I am hardly even looking at the threads this week leave it with me until we get the AI up and running and we can get back to other stuff

[Chad Harrison]

Thanks for reply Andy. Good luck with the AI [:D]

[pad152]

In Witp there was nothing you could do to raise morale, I even tried shipping troops with low morale back to Japan for R&R. it didn't work. So is there anything in AE that the player can do to raise morale?

[Hortlund]

ORIGINAL: pad152

In Witp there was nothing you could do to raise morale, I even tried shipping troops with low morale back to Japan for R&R. it didn't work.

Eh...what?

Try to put them in a non-malaria, well supplied base under the command of a leader with good inspiration. If you can, put a HQ in the base aswell.

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: pad152

In Witp there was nothing you could do to raise morale, I even tried shipping troops with low morale back to Japan for R&R. it didn't work.

Eh...what?

Try to put them in a non-malaria, well supplied base under the command of a leader with good inspiration. If you can, put a HQ in the base aswell.

What Tokyo isn't a malaria free zone??[8|]

How do you raise morale?

What about low morale ground units that aren't in a malaria zone?

I've never seen a leader raise moral of a ground unit what's not in combat!

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

No sorry neck deep in AI nothing else is getting in the way until we get it working so I am hardly even looking at the threads this week leave it with me until we get the AI up and running and we can get back to other stuff

Openned a big O can of worms did ya![:D]

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

No sorry neck deep in AI nothing else is getting in the way until we get it working so I am hardly even looking at the threads this week leave it with me until we get the AI up and running and we can get back to other stuff

This is your friendly, monthly reminder Andy [:D]

After you fixed my other chief complaint (squad replacement w/ Allies), I have hope that Malaria issues will be addressed! [:)]