From little things, big things grow!

[Bil H]

Damn fine work John.  Can't wait to use your app to finish up my map, to tell the truth I am not having a lot of joy using the scene edit program, this is just in time.
 
Any chance you can add some random brush to heavy and medium forest areas?  Perhaps I ask for too much.  [:D]
 
Bil

[Stridor]

Sure, which brush models did you want in particular?

[Bil H]

Hehe.. not sure, can you tie it in to the type of trees selected?
 
Just a random scattering beneath the trees, especially in heavy forest, a lesser amount in normal... none in light woods.
 
Bil

[Stridor]

I know that PCOWS had brush don't remember if PCK did, would probably need new textures to reuse the PCOWS brushes

[Stridor]

Bil,

It is funny [:D]

There are heaps of model / texture references to brushes and grasses in the game dlls, but all the models have been pulled, I guess for performance reasons???? [:@] May be Erik can get them back???? So unless you want to model some brushes and grasses for me to include, I don't have time right now to do that, so for the moment you will have to use the ground texture to convey "brushiness" [;)]

Sorry.

Perhaps someone else out there could do a low poly brush / grass pack (summer / winter). You can LOD these as well.

Regards

S.

[Bil H]

No, that isn't funny.  [;)]
 
That's something we are going to have to address at a later time.  Thanks for looking.
 
Bil

[Erik Rutins]

Hm, I don't recall brush in Winterstorm either. As I recall it wasn't used for performance reasons, but should be pretty easy to put back in. Perhaps we should as Biffa for a few brush pieces? I agree that adding some brush and tall grass would make the maps much nicer.

[Motomouse]

very, very, very nice

Motomice
Regards

[Motomouse]

Now what about some 3d trees,
2 Minutes per Frame anyone [:)]

[Biffa]

I can't wait to add some brush into these maps, corn rows, grass clumps, lillies etc, need to work out exactly how the masks work in PCK shouldn't take long. Currently I have a problem paying for a reg key for Milkshake3d, I've been trying for 4 days now...my mrs is buying it for my birthday but it is getting silly now.

I had a LOS, AI question I wanted to ask first before turning to creating the cover above. It's basically this, we get the ? as the player regards last known position, what does the AI get when there is a possibility that we are no longer there?

Are things like fences, trees, long grass, crops just there to look pretty and sometimes act as a defence (to hit) bonus or would they really add to our options to ambush the AI?

I would prefer to play with 'coins' off but not if the AI will get all the advantages. PVP works with coins off with lots of cover but single player probably won't, anyone know?

Anyway first thing is to fix this problem I have with Milkshape and the idiots at Share it! [:@]

[rickier65]

This editor looks great Stridor. When this gets released there should be some more stir on other game forums. A map editor is a significant step forward!

Rick

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: SAF_Biffa

I can't wait to add some brush into these maps, corn rows, grass clumps, lillies etc, need to work out exactly how the masks work in PCK shouldn't take long. Currently I have a problem paying for a reg key for Milkshake3d, I've been trying for 4 days now...my mrs is buying it for my birthday but it is getting silly now.

I had a LOS, AI question I wanted to ask first before turning to creating the cover above. It's basically this, we get the ? as the player regards last known position, what does the AI get when there is a possibility that we are no longer there?

Are things like fences, trees, long grass, crops just there to look pretty and sometimes act as a defence (to hit) bonus or would they really add to our options to ambush the AI?

I would prefer to play with 'coins' off but not if the AI will get all the advantages. PVP works with coins off with lots of cover but single player probably won't, anyone know?

Anyway first thing is to fix this problem I have with Milkshape and the idiots at Share it! [:@]

Sorry you are having this problem with MS3D! why don't you email the developer directly.

Bushes and grass would be pretty easy to do most of it is in the textures. Biffa you are definately the right man for this job however as your house work was/is outstanding. Esp textures. Any bushes or grasses you do I will include in the map maker. I look forward to it [;)]

Hm, I don't recall brush in Winterstorm either. As I recall it wasn't used for performance reasons, but should be pretty easy to put back in. Perhaps we should as Biffa for a few brush pieces? I agree that adding some brush and tall grass would make the maps much nicer.

Erik the dlls are FULL of references to stuff that don't actually exist (including brushes and grasses). They are selectable in ScenEdit also but of course they then crash scenedit when you try and use them which is frustrating. Either Kevin or myself should remove them I think (or better yet Biffa could make replacement models with the same name).

[rickier65]

Would incorporating much brush into the terrain have the potential for creating "hull down" status too often? If I understand the sighting algorythm, a ground ray and a head-high ray are used and if the ground ray gets too many obstructions, target gets "hull down" status. This might cause too many shots to get "ground deflected" message.

Rick

[EagleMountainDK]

John, this is truely awsome. [&o]

[Biffa]

Once there is enough terrain we could replace almost everything though this may take time.

I'm guessing that the best option for grass and brush is to use the '#' design, I don't think it's billboard? I really know so little of the mechanics of this game atm.

Anyway this is starting to get really exciting nj.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Rick
Would incorporating much brush into the terrain have the potential for creating "hull down" status too often? If I understand the sighting algorythm, a ground ray and a head-high ray are used and if the ground ray gets too many obstructions, target gets "hull down" status. This might cause too many shots to get "ground deflected" message.

As far as I know, it actually checks to see if it has hit the _ground_ for hull down status, so lots of brush or grass wouldn't interfere with that, though it could affect sighting.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
As far as I know, it actually checks to see if it has hit the _ground_ for hull down status, so lots of brush or grass wouldn't interfere with that, though it could affect sighting.

What about the tree count? Somewhere Kevin said the LOS counts the number of tree planes it intersects. Would shrubbery be a tree intersection?

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Rick
Would incorporating much brush into the terrain have the potential for creating "hull down" status too often? If I understand the sighting algorythm, a ground ray and a head-high ray are used and if the ground ray gets too many obstructions, target gets "hull down" status. This might cause too many shots to get "ground deflected" message.

As far as I know, it actually checks to see if it has hit the _ground_ for hull down status, so lots of brush or grass wouldn't interfere with that, though it could affect sighting.

To affect sighting is reasonable, since it uses the two rays, as long as it doesnt give the "hull - down" result.

Do stone walls give "hull-down" and should they?

Thanks
Rick

[Mraah]

My understanding of how it works (as told to me from earlier posts) was if the underlying terrain map was showing "obstruction" or obstacle (red mark) then it looks at the 3D object lying on top ... remember the silo problem ... no red under the silo making it see-through.

Trees and other stuff just limits the LOS (should be in the manual explaining this) to a point.

Now, if you put a red mark under the tree or wall or whatever then it will block LOS fully. In the case of the wall it runs those 2 rays out and if it blocks the low ray and not the high ray then it's hull down. I don't know where the high ray originates but considering the animation tut Stridor wrote I'm thinking it reads it from the firingPoint01 location ... perhaps.

I remember all this because I drilled Erik and the team a few months ago asking why vehicles in woods didn't register as hull down ... my thinking was that a fully established forest would have so much debris on the ground you could probably achieve hull down.

I hope that helps ... just what I know.

Rob

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Mraah
Trees and other stuff just limits the LOS (should be in the manual explaining this) to a point.

I know it uses the green on the underlying 2D file for the lion’s share of the sight obscuring factors. But there was some mention of the sides of the 3D tree models adding to this in some little way. Also, does the F12 ‘clear the trees’ affect sighting in any way now?