WaW vers2T AAR

[cveta]

It will be hard to inflict more demage to Londoin since my air attacks went so wrong. My plains are droping from the sky like flies. I dont know what to do, but I will find a way. Maybe to send some saboteur to city?
Bartheart - can you answer me this - can Turkish soldiers enter SU?? Or they must fight inside of Turkey borders? I didnot find any kind of information about this. If this is a wrong time to ask, save your answer for latter, when we finish the game.

[Barthheart]

Turks cannot enter USSR...

[cveta]

Thanks for answer. I was hopin for this. If I see thing right then they are trapped in Turkey, they dont have production center and slowly they will become usless.  I hope hat this is thrue. I would hate to see a Turkish army storming Italians in Africa

[Barthheart]

[;)]

[Barthheart]

Feb. 1941 to Axis.

Russia attacks Japanese Manchuria! Some resistance met in the hills.

China cheering for Russia... helps to keep warm....

Turkish forces are being bombed by Italian warships on the Med. coast and by Luft. level bombers..... sure pick on the defenseless guy....

[tweber]

Japan turn sent. 
 
I am sending troops to Manchuria to fight the Russians.  How to take some pressure off my German Ally

[cveta]

War betwen Su and Japan, so early? I wonder will this have huge influence on Barbarossa?? I hope it does.
Italian attacks Turkey - yes. Expiriance is always welcomed.
Note to my JA frend - you dont have to worry about English nawy from India. They are playing with fishes. And can you belive that Italians did this??
Opening attack on London went well. I hope that my luck wont leave me.

[RufusTFirefly]

These subs are killing me. 24 subs attacked Gibraltar and sunk the remains of the Royal Navy. And at Suez I had placed destroyers in the first line to protect the capital ships that where waiting to enter the Med Sea. But the Italien subs blew the destroyers away and sunk the Indian fleet as well!

It looks bad for the west. Axis controls the waves and that makes it impossible to launch any operation in Europe. SU must fight all on its own. Canadiens are forced to stay where they are. And US might be too busy in the Pacific to send any help to Britain.

[82ndtrooper]

wow another great game going on.

and in both the west is really taking a beating.
Things are really interesting. keep the reports coming.

[RufusTFirefly]

ORIGINAL: 82ndtrooper

and in both the west is really taking a beating.

And in both games I am playing West [:D]

But to be serious:
The situation is very different in both games. In this one Cveta has pushed my back against the wall. Although London is still holding the Axis subs are ruling the waves and West is forced to keep in his bases. I dont know whether Axis will have enough land based units to fight SU. This might be the negative side of the medal.

In the other game nearly the whole Royal Navy is still sailing. Some Axis subs have already been sunk. But Tweber is a very strong player in land based warfare. So Egypt might fall soon and SU will have a really heavy duty to fight back the German hordes. But maybe West will be able to support SU in this game.

[82ndtrooper]

 Rufus I wasn't implying that you where not doing a good job. [;)]

I was looking at it from the aspect of how Explorer wanted to change the game to be more historical at the start. With the intention of causing the games to last longer. previously the games ended within a few years of game time. with the west usually winning fast once the USA came online.

In both of these games it looks like that trend has changed. In our test game ( explorer and I ) this is the case also and I am playing the west. In fact the winter of 41-42 is absolutely all that saved Russia from defeat. He has all of western Russia except for Leningrad Which I doubt if it can hold on, Kazan which held on by 30 troops and Astrakhan which is surrounded. I have no doubt that our game will go into 1944 at the very least most likely 1945 minimum. The USA has come online now but I am still in clear danger of losing.

it looks like both of your games will go into 44-45 minimum also which is exactly what he had hoped would happen. Being his test game partner I have had a little input on the game changes he has introduced and I am as eager as he is to see how these games work out. We dont really care who wins as long as both sides have a fair chance of winning once the USA comes online.

so keep the reports coming guys !!

[cveta]

Of course we will. It looks great at the moment ( at least for axis side ). And I wonder how well will SU campaign looks like, especialy when winter come. And axis efort on Atlantic will defenetly have a huge inpact on SU theathre. And especilay since Su withrov from the border ( but still under Su forward deploy rule ). So my initial pussh will lose momentum early on. If axis play well I belive that axis may spend a first winter relativly safe and on secon spring atvance and take Moscov on the secony year of Su campaign.
And still I belive that Subs are too strong. Especialy according to attack warships in the open see. And something must be done about Subs attack on ports with ships inside. I agree that a raid may be sucsessful, but all axis attack on port went well. I think that ports should be better defended ( in scenario scripts ), and hulls ( carier, batleship, cruiser ) must not be destroyed in a sub attacks. Destroyers shoud have greter defense and offense against subs. In multiple battles subs ws destroyers subs usualy wins, and if destroyers are on attacks subs almost always sink same ammount od DD. I am talking about aproximatly same numbers of ships involved in combat. If DD are weaker then subs, how should west counter Axis subs? And west should start ( or at least get in first years ) escort carriers for a sub hunt. Especialy when USA wakes up.
Also - it will be great if subs have a chance to dive, and avoid attack.

Coments please

[Barthheart]

March 1941 to Axis.

Russian troops continue to advance into Japanese Manchruia. Pitiful Jap landings crushed.

Chinese rice farms seem to be growing food again! Yeah!

Turkey, in a desparate bid for supplies, declares war on Vichy France and storms into Syria!

[82ndtrooper]

ORIGINAL: cveta

Of course we will. It looks great at the moment ( at least for axis side ). And I wonder how well will SU campaign looks like, especialy when winter come. And axis efort on Atlantic will defenetly have a huge inpact on SU theathre. And especilay since Su withrov from the border ( but still under Su forward deploy rule ). So my initial pussh will lose momentum early on. If axis play well I belive that axis may spend a first winter relativly safe and on secon spring atvance and take Moscov on the secony year of Su campaign.
And still I belive that Subs are too strong. Especialy according to attack warships in the open see. And something must be done about Subs attack on ports with ships inside. I agree that a raid may be sucsessful, but all axis attack on port went well. I think that ports should be better defended ( in scenario scripts ), and hulls ( carier, batleship, cruiser ) must not be destroyed in a sub attacks. Destroyers shoud have greter defense and offense against subs. In multiple battles subs ws destroyers subs usualy wins, and if destroyers are on attacks subs almost always sink same ammount od DD. I am talking about aproximatly same numbers of ships involved in combat. If DD are weaker then subs, how should west counter Axis subs? And west should start ( or at least get in first years ) escort carriers for a sub hunt. Especialy when USA wakes up.
Also - it will be great if subs have a chance to dive, and avoid attack.

Coments please

Well in our test game I have complete control of the Atlantic as the West. It was a battle but I did win it. I built a lot of DD's and used them in combination with 1 carrier group. And once my DD's gained experience I have no problems killing his subs with them. I had over 30 DD's at a time BTW. Which is historical correct, DD's where the most common ship in WWII by far. ( I lost 16 DD's in one turn )

as the West player you have 3 primary Objectives that you have to do until the USA comes online.

in order of Importance.

1. Defend Britain.
2. Fight to control the Atlantic and keep your supply lanes open.
3. Preserve your main battle fleet.

you can literally accomplish all three of these by building a lot of DD's.

secondary Objectives.
in order of importance.

4.Defend India and Mandalay.
5.Defend Cairo
6.Defend Australia.

key to all of the above is "defend"
you don't have to conquer North Africa or Norway you don't have to conquer anything just defend.

if you accomplish the first 3 objectives you will be in good shape in 1942.
if you accomplish all 6 you will be in great shape in 1942.

This is what England did accomplish in WWII. And in my opinion England saved the free world. The USA gets too much credit for the outcome of WWII. England hung on by her fingernails with guts and courage through the darkest days of human history.

Alone.

By doing so she allowed the USA to come into the war with forward bases on 3 continents already intact and secure and with a strong ally to help. Without that Europe would still be speaking German. Just the importance of England as the worlds largest aircraft carrier floating off the coast of Europe cant be measured.

so as the player for the West if you can do the same I think you will find that once the USA comes online the tide of War will turn in your favor.

I do agree that subs shouldn't be able to kill ship hulls which would be in a dry dock . But I don't know what Explorers thoughts are on this subject.
But I think that DD's are just fine and that the main weakness you are noticing is the lack of experience they start with.

below you can see the totals for Jan. 1942.

Germany has lost 50 subs total and the west has lost 27 DD2 plus 9 DD1 that you cant see.

so its 50 subs lost for 36 DD lost.
You can tell it has been a brutal fight.

[tweber]

Turn sent.  Japanese CV fleet strikes Russian tanks straying to near the coast.  I expect the Russians to surrender soon

[cveta]

Coments on 82ndtrooper replay - I agree with most of you sed. And I kill DD without trouble now becouse I attack them in a small formations ( 1,2 or 4-5 ). So we will see how will things goes.
I agree with your tasks for west. All of them.

And something about history -
England didnot fight alone. There were many other countries involved wich suported England. So if USA gets too much credits for outcome of WWII then S.A. New Zeland, Australia, India and Canada especialy are geting too less.

Now a coment from my country:
As you know ( I hope you does ) the largest "free" teritory in occupied Europe in 1941, or 1942 was a land wich was liberated by Tito partisan in Jugoslavia ( Bosnia and Dalmatia to be precise ). Operation Barbarosa was delayed for weak or two ( not certan ) becouse of this, and some 30 divisions ( german and local Croats and Serbs ( Cetnici )) were still stuck in Yugoslavia fighting partisans. What will hapened if they were deploy for a Barbarosa nobady know. So people often see Croatia ( and Jugoslavia ) as a part of Axis union but the truth is that realy strong partisan activity is going on there thru whole WWII. And at the end Titos partisan menage to liberate whole Jugoslavia almost without aid from Su or England ( Su have some units in the end fights near Beograd, and England was suporting Serbs ( Cetnici ) in the beguinig not knowing thet they work with Axis forces ). Only 1943-1944 help in a form of suplays and stuff officers were sent to Tito partisans.

[explorer2]

cveta-
Yes indeed, the Oxford Companion to WWII states that the largest and most effective resistance movement in WWII was by Tito and his partisans. This is why in WaW if you don't adequately garrison Yugoslavia, the partisans will multiply quickly.
(Currently, the setting is way too high for Soviet partisans, which did not enter the fray until relatively late in the war.)

[Barthheart]

Turn to Axis.

Russians continue to burn bridges and advance into Japanese Manchuria. Mukden cut off and bombarded and assaulted. We will never surrender!

China slowing building up.

Turkey might just make it to Mosul... maybe....

[tweber]

May 1940 Japan turn
 
The Soviets cut off Mukden but I am able to re-open the line.  I wipe out a Soviet infantry and artillery unit.  The Germans attacked this turn so I am pretty confident I will get a surrender.  If not, I will move towards Irkutsk and Vladivostock.  I will have to attack China next turn or China will get a production boost. 

[cveta]

ORIGINAL: explorer2

cveta-
Yes indeed, the Oxford Companion to WWII states that the largest and most effective resistance movement in WWII was by Tito and his partisans. This is why in WaW if you don't adequately garrison Yugoslavia, the partisans will multiply quickly.
(Currently, the setting is way too high for Soviet partisans, which did not enter the fray until relatively late in the war.)

Please specify what you mean by adequately garison Yugoslavia? Is there any kind of rule like in Japan/China war? Like 20 rifles per city?
Thanks