GGWAW vs HOIT2

Gary Grigsby's World At War gives you the chance to really run a world war. History is yours to write and things may turn out differently. The Western Allies may be conquered by Germany, or Japan may defeat China. With you at the controls, leading the fates of nations and alliances. Take command in this dynamic turn-based game and test strategies that long-past generals and world leaders could only dream of. Now anything is possible in this new strategic offering from Matrix Games and 2 by 3 Games.

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Svend Karlson
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RE: GGWAW vs HOIT2

Post by Svend Karlson »

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana
Though again I should add the caveat that I have never played HOI2 multiplayer and perhaps if I did perhaps I would find it more realistic. Has anyone played HOI2 mutiplayer and can they comment on this?

The fact is that Paradox is a great company with fantastic customer support, but they design their games primarily for multiplayer use and seem less concerned with having a competent AI. They choose to spend their development $ elsewhere and thats OK.

Mixed bag on the HoI multiplayer front in terms of realism, but certainly what you do not get against competent humans are nations that are far more easily overcome than they have any right to be, on the other hand you can get some pretty odd force compositions.

In fact I would say it's fairly well accepted that a game of Vanilla flavoured HoI/HoI2 begun in 1936 really does allow so much flexibility that you may get a total departure from anything like WWII.

However a significant part of this is under the player's control - through selection of historical or ahistorial options. Furthermore, if you play the 1939 scenario there will be a lot less flexibility and something a lot more like WWII. The highest level of realism however is achieved by using one of the outstanding mods such as CORE or HSR (Historical Stony Road). Couple those with a high difficulty level and you actually get something pretty realistic I venture. Many of the outlandish achievements and happenings reported are down to a combination of ahistorical play, vanilla HoI and low difficulty. Personally I can tell you that historical play, modded HoI and high difficulty can be combined to create a fairly faithful WWII experience.

Two things I'd say for the AI:

- In terms of challenge (for the developer making it) I would rate it above WitP because there are dozens upon dozens of countries (instead of 2), a longer time period, real time play and additional considerations like diplomacy & trade

- It does seem to improve from patch to patch
Harrybanana
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RE: GGWAW vs HOIT2

Post by Harrybanana »

Thanks for the answer Svend.
Again I don't really care if a game is ahistorical in the sense that nations/players have a wide variety of choices to make in terms of their diplomacy (ie who they attack and when), weapon development etc. In fact the more choices you can make the more the game "simulates" real life. What I do ask is that the choices you make in the game have realistic consequences. If I was playing the SIMs (which I've never done) with a number of people it wouldn't bother me at all if someone decided to jump off a cliff (even though some may argue that doing so is illogical) but it would bother me if instead of falling to his death this character started flying around. Similarly, if I'm playing Canada in a game which is attempting to simulate WWII and I decide I want to concentrate my production on 1st industrializing my Nation and then building a large army (historically Canada concentrated more on it's airforce) then I like the fact that I'm allowed to. But I should not be allowed (as I can in HOI2) to more than double my industry in 4 or 5 years, build 30+ divisions and build the transport capacity to land 10 of these divisions simultaneously (more than the Allies accomplished on DDay) on the coast of Italy sailing from Halifax. To be fair GGWaW allows me to double Canadian Industry in only 18 months, but at least the manpower restrictions prevent me from using this industry to do more than build research or supply. Actually I think Canada deserves 1 more population point and more industry to start WaW but I'll save that rant for another day.

You may be right about the AI in HOI2 being more difficult to program. I didn't take into account the fact that it is an RTS. But you have to admit that in games like HOI2 having a strong AI is even more important then it is for WiTP or WaW. In these latter games you can easily find human opponents for all the sides; but in HOI2 even playing multiplayer there is always going to be a large number of important countries played by the AI. Setting the difficulty level to High is not really an option for me personally as I want realism and giving the stupid AI laser guns so they can fight me on equal terms doesn't accomplish this. Again I really enjoyed playing HOI2 and I would reccomend it to anyone interested in the genre, but having beaten it several times as the Canadians (and even the French) I doubt I will play it again until I'm ready to try the Multiplayer.
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Panzer76
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RE: GGWAW vs HOIT2

Post by Panzer76 »

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana
Again I really enjoyed playing HOI2 and I would reccomend it to anyone interested in the genre, but having beaten it several times as the Canadians (and even the French) I doubt I will play it again until I'm ready to try the Multiplayer.

I think you will find it improved in the 1.2 version, and even more so if you apply one of the AI enhancing mods. There are also realism mods in the works, so I'm, not too worried :)

Cheers,
Panzer

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sfbaytf
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RE: GGWAW vs HOIT2

Post by sfbaytf »

Well I'm going to download the latest WAW patch and try again. Mabye I'll have a better appreciation for WAW. One huge thing WAW has going for it is it's PBEM system. I just started 2 PBEM games of WitP and it really is the way to go. Playing aginst another person beats any computer AI and being able to do so via a PBEM is really the way to go. You can download and play at your leisure.
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ravinhood
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RE: GGWAW vs HOIT2

Post by ravinhood »

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

Well I'm going to download the latest WAW patch and try again. Mabye I'll have a better appreciation for WAW. One huge thing WAW has going for it is it's PBEM system. I just started 2 PBEM games of WitP and it really is the way to go. Playing aginst another person beats any computer AI and being able to do so via a PBEM is really the way to go. You can download and play at your leisure.

Couldn't agree more, many think multiplayer online and LAN is the wave of the future, but, it's PBEM all the way IMHO. You can play when you can, you don't feel rushed and you can play as many games at one time as you can handle. So, nowadays it's the PBEM in a game I look for 2nd only to "random generated" scenarios and maps and units. ;)
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


Grosshaus
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RE: GGWAW vs HOIT2

Post by Grosshaus »

I thought this thread was about comparing HoI 2 to WaW and not HoI1;)

I can assure that also HoI2 can be tactically challenging with human players and frankly at least at my skill level even in SP.

I would not rate exploitativeness of a game to be fatal flaw, especially in SP. In all games I play I keep some moral codes, like no assassins in MTW or no signing of players without scouting in Football Manager. Whether one chooses to use them or not is a personal choice.

Oh, and planes in HoI2 do have the ability to damage ground units with the proper mission.

ORIGINAL: RodentDung


I like GGWAW much better than HOI cause of following reasons:
- HOI's AI is ferociously weak and can be beaten just by having your dog walk around on your keyboard and mouse for a few days (yes that's how long it takes to play a game of HOI)
- GGWAW is sweet and simple but looks like it can be very tactically challenging with human players or high level setting
- GGWAW is a very fun game and HOI tends to put my brain to sleep
- HOI is easy to exploit so from what I saw on their forum everyone just puts production on permanent tank building until they get bored of the cakewalk and then start a new game.. tanks... repeat... tanks again... repeat... hey lets build tanks this time... repeat.. yawn... so its a one unit game
- planes in GGWAW work nicely except for the heavy bomber exploit I saw on a thread here which needs editing, but in HOI planes cannot damage ground units but only reduce their organization which is lame I think
- GGWAW has very nice battle sounds plus animated battles which HOI has none of




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ravinhood
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RE: GGWAW vs HOIT2

Post by ravinhood »

No Assassins in RTW??? Hell the Assassins are a FEATURE??? Now, that says how much a game suks when you have to not use a FEATURE. Anytime a "feature" becomes an exploit, then the game is flawed. Bad beta testing and/or developers being indifferent (much like CA) to anyones feedback.
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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