GGWAW vs HOIT2

[sfbaytf]

I'm a big GG fan as I've spent way too much time playing his past games. I recently purchased WAW and for some reason can't seem to get into it. It's a fine game and it could just be a matter of taste. I bought Hearts of Iron2 and find I prefer it to WAW. I'm not trying to bash WAW. Has anyone else played bout WAW and HOIT2 and what do you think?

BTW: I'm currently also playing War in the Pacific and having a great time....

[Dalwin]

I would say that both HOI2 and WaW are good games. One thing they have in common is that an experienced gamer after learning the basic mechanics will beat the AI unless you give it such large handicaps that the resemblance to WWII is lost.

This means that the best game experience in both is multi-player. For me, it is very hard to commit to long sessions when all players can be available online to do HOI2 MP. The PBEM system in WaW is something that I can deal with even if the games progress slowly.

[sfbaytf]

You make an excellent point. I find the PBEM in War in the Pacific a big plus when I get tired of playing against the AI and need a real human player. When I have time I plan on giving WAW another go and see if I can get into it. I would really like to see a European theater game that is like War in the Pacific.

[Titanwarrior89]

Ive played both and like WAW better but i like your self can't get into WAW. I really don't know why. It is a good game. But too me it seems like a market game. Also i am not bashing WAW. I see why people like it. But for me it just seems i am not moving units. Maybe it has no identity. Oh well i do hope Matrix does well with it. I did buy a copy.[:D]

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I'm a big GG fan as I've spent way too much time playing his past games. I recently purchased WAW and for some reason can't seem to get into it. It's a fine game and it could just be a matter of taste. I bought Hearts of Iron2 and find I prefer it to WAW. I'm not trying to bash WAW. Has anyone else played bout WAW and HOIT2 and what do you think?

BTW: I'm currently also playing War in the Pacific and having a great time....

[Warpstorm]

I'll be counterpoint. I buy every one of Paradox's games hoping that this one will be the gem that I actually enjoy playing. No luck, yet...

[aletoledo]

I think the reason I never played HOI much was that it seemed to much like the original europa universalis. the only difference I felt between the two was the icons changed. I enjoyed them, but becuase of the length of the game, when I was finished I was too exhausted to commit to playing another.

[coralsaw]

ORIGINAL: Warpstorm

I'll be counterpoint. I buy every one of Paradox's games hoping that this one will be the gem that I actually enjoy playing. No luck, yet...

Did you not like Europa Universalis 2? To me, an all-time classic and still on my hard drive (heavily modded, of course), until EU3 comes out in a coupe of years.

/coralsaw

[PDiFolco]

ORIGINAL: coralsaw

ORIGINAL: Warpstorm

I'll be counterpoint. I buy every one of Paradox's games hoping that this one will be the gem that I actually enjoy playing. No luck, yet...

Did you not like Europa Universalis 2? To me, an all-time classic and still on my hard drive (heavily modded, of course), until EU3 comes out in a coupe of years.

/coralsaw

Same for me. I was *hugely* disappointed by HoI, who was some sort of unplayable monster with all fun sucked out from EU2 game system [:@] . I didn't dare to try HoI2 since.
OTOH I do really enjoy GGWaW, which is fun, very playable, and still conveys a good dose of historicity. On the latter, you can't feel much through the units or the battles, but rather at the strategic level. I like that much more than having to micromanage unnumerable provinces, divisions, brigades, generals, crates of rubber and so on .. [:'(]

[JudgeDredd]

I have both and enjoy both...but both also have their problems.

HOI2 I like the time frame and unit sizes and depth (although I feel VERY swamped at times...like trying to make sure you are maintaining a decent level of resources through trade...very hard indeed)

WaW I like for different reasons. It's easy to pick up and play and you can fit a whole game in a night...BUT...I would like to have seen it "a bit" longer. One month turns would have been better. One other thing I don't like is that when things start going wrong, they just seem to nose dive without any way of coming back. I'm currently playing Germany and in Fall 42. I am getting my ass handed to me and I have a sense that it's because I haven't been paying much attention to the intracies...but it doesn't look like I can come back. I can't move anywhere because the WA rule the med and Atlantic and North Sea...I can't move east because Russia has masses of forces there (I know because I cheated...I saved my game and attacked Russia. Took the first couple of regions and then they moved an entire MASS of units to the front to wipe me out....)

Also...I said WaW was easy to pick and play...NOT master. I have the game set on Easy and I am doing terrible.

I keep going back to both. I would like WaW simplicity with HoI2 scale (and I mean simplicity in relation to HoI2 complexity)

[coralsaw]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
Same for me. I was *hugely* disappointed by HoI, who was some sort of unplayable monster with all fun sucked out from EU2 game system [:@] . I didn't dare to try HoI2 since.

Amen brother. [:)]

[Graymane]

HOI 2 is quite a bit different than HOI 1 actually (although the latest HOI 1 patch makes the game quite good). I've played every Paradox game since EU 1 (and still play them all quite regularly). The differences between HOI 2 and WaW from my point of view are:

1. Scale. WaW is more "grand strategic" and overall a simpler design. Things are funnelled down a particular historical path.
2. Time to play. You can play a game of WaW in one night. You can play a game of HOI 2 over a few days to a week.
3. WaW AI is better. This is due to the nature of the WaW design being so much simpler. There are fewer provinces, fewer combat "factors", fewer terrain types, fewer countries, etc.

Overall, HOI lets you play a more "what if" kind of game. It also allows you to play "fantasy" if you want. Research is important in the game, but you won't lose the game just because you didn't keep within 2 levels of someone. By far, the biggest downfall so far for me is that the AI is just atrocious. It has absolutely no concept or understanding of how to do air and naval battles. It will rarely garrison beachheads correctly. Supposedly the 1.2 patch will fix some of this. We shall see as it comes out in the next week or so.

[Warpstorm]

ORIGINAL: coralsaw
Did you not like Europa Universalis 2? To me, an all-time classic and still on my hard drive (heavily modded, of course), until EU3 comes out in a coupe of years.

Of their games, that is the one I liked the best. Having said that, I grew tired of it before my first game was up.

[Mr.Frag]

One month turns would have been better.

I think that would have pushed it off a lot of buyers lists. The game's aimed at bringing more people into the wargaming world and increasing duration by a factor of 4 would have scared a lot of folks off. It would have added a large number of rules (move distance limiters and such) that would have taken away from it's clean lines. The rules are complex enough for people coming over from RTS/FPS games.

Something to be said for the KISS principal. [;)]

[Sonny]

I think two month turns would have been nicer. Problem is making a change like that would force a change in the map because right now it is scaled for 3 month turns. Plus they would have to think up names for six seasons of the year instead of four.[:D]

[hmsmystic]

Well, I can say I have probably logged more hours playing HOI and HOI2 than I care to admit.

If WAW came out years ago, on the heals of A & A when we were desperate for a real computer wargame, it would have been even more of a smashing success.

As it is, the complexity and strategic/operational nature of HOI is hard to match. Patching it with the latest mod (called CORE) makes for a truly awesome game experience (sans the AI) Naming your units, having ministers and leaders and sweeping campaigns and battles has been great. HOI2 is also fun.

I think WaW is also great- I have played only 5 games so far, all on normal.

China and Russia seemed quite simple, but I got creamed as Germany my 1st try! Managing the supply, partisans and being encircled seemed quite realistic. In fact, it took me 3 tries to win as Germany, if you count winning as having the game end in 1946 after you have just lost all of France to the WA!

This is a nice game, and I look forward to trying Japan. There is something to be said for being able to play a game through in one sitting...

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: I bought Hearts of Iron2 and find I prefer it to WAW. I'm not trying to bash WAW. Has anyone else played bout WAW and HOIT2 and what do you think?

The great plus for me with WaW is that I can actually play a game in an evening. Time is very scarce for me at the moment, and although I have HoI2 I've barely played it - by the time I could get back to a game I'd completely forgotten what had happened and what I was trying to do. I've seen some saying you have have a quick game playing as Argentina or something, but that's not my idea of fun in a WW2 game. HoI2 is certainly the "deeper" game, but in my case at least that isn't a plus, at the moment anyway.

[wongbil2]

In WAW, I can control both Germany and Japan in the same game something that cannot be done in HOI2 where often the AI controlled Japan lets down Germany big time. WAW give me double the fun as a world conquering dictator.

But HOI2 is great game too! Excellent depth and much improved interface from the earlier version. WAW depth is sufficient for its design scope.

[marc420]

Well, I can't compare to HOI2 as I won't buy it. I bought HOI1 and thought it was one of the worst game-buying decisions I've ever made.From some of the reviews I've seen, I think maybe they've fixed some of the major problems with HOI in HOI2. But for me, they got my money once and won't get any more from me. This attitude that says release a very sorry game, get people to buy it, then use the money to fix the game and sell the fix as another full price game really PO's me.

My main problems with HOI was the real-time game system. Here I am trying to manage a world-wide war. But when I zoom in to one area to see what's going on, things get out of control somewhere else. From playing HOI1, you'd think Churchill was personally flying to the Middle East to plan an attack there, and thus couldn't be around to handle any production question in the UK until he flew back. ARrrrgh!

For a tactical game, this helps to recreate some of the battlefield confusion. I kinda like real-time when playing at the level of something like Sid Meier's Gettysberg. But for a strategic game where I'm supposedly representing a commmander-in-chief with a massive general, political, and diplomatic staffs that are helping me, this out-of-control real-time method always seems wrong to me. I much prefer a turn-based game for this scale where I can analyze a situation and plan moves and production to try to deal with it.

So, I don't know about HOI2. But I've only played GGWAW for one night, and it already beats the heck out of HOI1.

GGWAW seems to have a great deal of depth. At first glance it appears to be a game that is deceptively simple, but where the details are well-done to the point of making a very interesting strategic game.

[ravinhood]

This attitude that says release a very sorry game, get people to buy it, then use the money to fix the game and sell the fix as another full price game really PO's me.

Amen to that. [:D]

[ravinhood]

I much prefer a turn-based game for this scale where I can analyze a situation and plan moves and production to try to deal with it.

Just wait till AGW is released by Schwerpunkt and it's very soon now. The whole of the Western Theater and parts of the Eastern and all turn based and some of the best graphics and unit counter information you ever saw. For $29.99 it's going to be a steal and the best overall operational warsim of the theater I think.