The Italian Job (2) - Comments from the Allies

[mc3744]

December 10th, 1942

IBC
He is indeed retreating from Burma! [X(]
I don’t get it. Why is he not fighting? It’s not like he is short on ground troops. [&:]
If it is a trap, it’s really a good one because I don’t have a clue. He has no way to trap those advancing units, at worst they’ll be pushed back.
Anyway the 45th Bde is being flown into Myitkyina with no opposition and Japanese troops are apparently running away.
The LB’s are wreaking havoc on the few troops left in Mandalay.
Maybe he is not willing to face ground combat without air superiority.
However this approach could work in the Pacific, especially once I get to the longer ‘jumps’, but by land I’ll always be able to stay under my air force umbrella.
Can anybody provide me with any idea on this?

PACIFIC
US pilot’s training goes on real well. It’s a pleasure.

[Tom Hunter]

I don't feel that I can comment on this without giving to much information about Hoepner's plans.

That is the disadvantage of not posting your long term plans in the AAR. I feel I can comment on Hoepners plans for 3 months from now, because that kind of comment is unlikely to give him an edge against you right now. If I think he could get an edge I keep quiet.

Sorry

At the very highest level of strategy I will say that I may react tactically to an enemy move, but my strategy is driven by my goals not my opponents moves. That is not going to interfere with you game, but I doubt it gives you the answer you want either.

[mc3744]

December 11th, 1942

A critical day in the war against the yellow menace.

The carrier TF composed by (3) CVs escorting a small convoy to Nukufetau engaged in a relevant carrier battle.
Btw, the damned Catalina’s at Nukufetau did not notice any of three different Japanese KB! [:@]

Unfortunately the partial victory is clouded by a GH’s trivial mistake. He left his Zero’s on Naval Attack instead of Escort, as he told me in the email. [:(]
I was going to offer to redo the turn, however after watching the combat I changed my mind. The mistake is obvious, but his effects not so much.
Let me explain and, please, let me know what you think.

During the morning phase my CVs were covered by clouds, hence no attacks in or outgoing.
However the Zero’s attacked a Minewarfare convoy, certainly not a big prize, still in this little battle the Zero’s on Naval Attack enhanced the effect of the attack.
See below.

-----------------------------------------------

Day Air attack on TF at 84,110
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
A6M3a Zero x 8
B5N Kate x 60

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DM Pruitt, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DM Preble, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Deloraine
DM Tracy, Bomb hits 1, on fire
ML Oglala, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DM Breese

Day Air attack on TF at 84,110
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 31

No Japanese losses
Allied Ships
DM Pruitt, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DM Tracy, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
ML Oglala, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Day Air attack on TF at 84,110
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
A6M3a Zero x 11
B5N Kate x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DM Breese
DM Tracy, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
ML Oglala, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

---------------------------------------------------------------

In the afternoon phase my planes attacked one of the enemy KB’s. The CAP was there, hence the mistake did not affect the defense, only the subsequent attack. The serious damage inflicted to the Kaga and the Ryuho - from what I can understand – would not have been altered without the naval attack setting: the CAP was there.
See below.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air attack on TF at 87,106

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
A6M3a Zero x 25

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 9
SBD Dauntless x 94
TBF Avenger x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 7 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 47 destroyed
TBF Avenger: 14 destroyed, 14 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
CV Kaga
CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Maya
CA Chokai

-----------------------------------------------------------------

And here is where he lost power due to the wrong setting. (35) Zero’s attacking ships (although not one survived the CAP) instead of engaging my (72) fighters.
Only (4) Kate’s passed my CAP and still one managed to score a hit! [8|]
There’s no doubt in my mind that with the fighter escort more Kate’s would have attacked my ships, however the results may have not been devastatingly different. Moreover I’d gladly exchange CVs on 1:1.
See below

------------------------------------------------------

Day Air attack on TF at 85,109
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17
A6M3a Zero x 18
B5N Kate x 51

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 72

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 17 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 18 destroyed
B5N Kate: 45 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Wasp
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1 (dmg 24-37-2)

Hence, albeit I recognize the mistake, I don’t feel like offering to redo the turn because the damage he received has not been altered.
Right now I’d record this event under the long list of ‘sh#t happens’ in war. Only this time it happened to GH.

I would however really appreciate your feed-back. Do you think that I should offer a redo?

[Speedysteve]

Hi MC,

My feeling is that you shouldn't offer a redo.

May sound harsh but I only believe a redo should happen if a bug or glitch occurs that is NOT in the players control. He made an error and in war if an error is made it can be paid for.

Regards,

Steven

[anarchyintheuk]

What Speedy said. [:D]

[hawker]

Hi MC,
I think you should offer redo turn.It is not fair victory.
Becouse of his stupid mistake,dont ruin the game.

[Speedysteve]

Hi Hawker,

It's not MC's fault his opponent made a mistake. It's war and mistakes heppen and could be punished. Could you imagine if MC does offer a redo and then loses his carriers due to Gen being able to modify things? I can assure you there would be uproar!

Regards,

Steven

[aztez]

I would say that no redo is necessary. He made a mistake and paid for it [:D]

As you said sh*t sometimes happens in war [:D] ...Game engine is far from perfect and this time around it favoured you.

[hawker]

Speedy,
Allies has a lot of advantage in this game.They dont need to exploit "stupid mistakes"

[Taglia]

In my game against Mc I've also did some mistakes.

I've lost Enterprise in early 1942 because I told her to go in a hex I tought was not in range from Nells, and didn't set correctly my CAP setting (because I tought the carrier was safe)

I've lost some DDs cause I forgot to turn off "Escort Bombard On"

But I never ever tought about asking a replay. These are MY mistakes, and mistakes are part of the game. Even Nagumo at Midway forgot to switch "Airfield Attack" to "Naval Attack" [;)] and he lost 4 carriers.

And besides that ... why one should ever put zeros on NAVAL ATTACK? [:-]

[Barbarigo]

This is when this game really differs from reality.

What happened --> he clicked the wrong button [:(]

Equivalent in real war--> very difficult to find. [&:]

Bottom line: if you're interested in winning --> no redo.

If you're interested in a challenging game --> redo, maybe with some conditions (he knows where the carriers are now)

B.

[Taglia]

Well ... I just wonder a thing: whenever I move a ship, I generally assure myself about its orders. Whenever I move warships, I DOUBLE CHECK orders and settings. Whenever I move CVs (especially after what happened me to Enterprise) I first touch my "coconuts", then I triple check all the single ships in the TF, all the planes and all the stuff that can inspect, then at the end of the turn, when the cursor is marching toward the "End Turn" button, I suddenly feel panicked and I recheck all of the above, ESPECIALLY when I know I'm moving against the enemy and there are chanches about entering combat.

The equivalent in real war is when operations are planned with haste and result in complete failure. This is not real war, this is a game. A game that goes on for a long time, and there is absolutely no point to play with haste to do 1 turn more a day. And the player should only blame himself if it loses assets for giving wrong orders to his units (like happened to me too...)

[jwilkerson]

Equivalent in real war--> very difficult to find.

Midway - Nagumo clicked the wrong button - and he got no redo !

[Speedysteve]

Exactly.

Once more just my thoughts but IF you assume and accept Gen hit the wrong button then before you know it every PBEMer will be asking for redo's due to a 'clicking error'......

[Andy Mac]

No redos for mistakes IMO

[Speedysteve]

Exactly. This is your finals exams not your mocks.........

[pauk]

Well it is not so simple... but the bottom line is what several people said here

"Midway - Nagumo clicked the wrong button - and he got no redo !"

Sorry for interupting this Allied thread[;)], but this Jap fanboy is on your side - this time....

Of course, your victory wont be sweet because you didn't outplay him, it was his mistake after all but WiTP is like chess - winner will be the person who make fewer mistakes!

[mc3744]

Just came back on line.

Thanks everybody for your feed-back. [&o]

I'd like to clarify that GH never asked for a redo, he is a tough one! [;)]
It's simply the first thing I thought when he told me that he had the Zero's on naval rather than escort.

Then, after watching the turn, I noticed that he was actually able to defend the carriers (the primary task I always assign my navy fighters to), but not to escort his DB and TB (I had only 10% on escort).
Now my guess is that he had the Zero's on naval attack to expand the attack radius of the KB vs. fast transports, convoys and monelayers and would have changed them to escort at the right time.
However he forgot to switch from Naval to escort before the carrier engagement. Hence he did not click the wrong button (otherwise at least some Zero's would have been on escort), he 'just' forgot to change orders. This somehow makes me feel slightly better [:)]

Bottom line, based on your advice and my evaluation here is what I've decided.
If GH was a rookie I'd offer a redo. But he is no rookie [:-] [:)] He is toughest opponent I ever met and I'd really like to stand a chance at beating him [;)]
Hence no redo.

[Tom Hunter]

A lot of this game comes down to remembering to set your forces up correctly. Correct home port, CAP setting, you name it. He missed one, and lost a nice CV for it. I have lost nice CVs the same way.

You gambled and you won, fair and square. What if he had sent all 6 carriers and set CAP differently. You would have been murdered.

[mc3744]

December 12th, 1942

Tom has been complaining [;)] because I’m not describing my long term strategy.
Wouldn’t want to make a veteran like Tom unhappy! [:-] So let’s talk medium term (I’m not sure I have long term!) [:D]

IBC
Obviously India is in no imminent danger whatsoever: the main KB is in the Pacific.
GH has retreated his troops from all Northern Burma, but for a small garrison in Mandalay. Going southbound, Rangoon is the first heavily defended base I’ll encounter.
Some ‘bunker tactic’!
I can see - at least - part of his reasons: a) the Burma road has no longer any value since China is Japanese, b) those bases have very low VPs, c) nearby the Indian border I enjoy total air superiority, d) any valuable resource has been erased long ago by my bombers. He may have more reasons, but those could be enough already.

My strategy here is pretty straightforward.
1) Move all the available units - by land - southbound. They’ll go as far as their strength will allow to.
2) Keep the Chinese troops (actually they are so many that a part will suffice) for garrisoning duty.
3) The air force will provide the main defense vs. an unlikely seaborne invasions and will suppress enemy ground units barring the way.
4) Ground all the bombers till Jap planes appear in any nearby airfield or until I need to soften up any Jap LCU’s.
5) Once Northern Sumatra and/or Andaman will be within reach of my Burma’s air force I’ll conduct a seaborne invasion with my Indian reserve troops and the best Chinese ones.
6) I’m yet undecided on the CV’s role.

AUSTRALIA – NG
Not much to do here.
Without Northern Australia I have one target only: NG. I have not yet decided when to attack. But I’ll do it within the first quarter of 1943.
Right now I think I’ll wait to engage his carriers once again when the Essex will be deployed (one month to go). Hopefully I may be able to cripple some more Jap CVs. Then I’ll go for NG. The hundreds of heavies I now have will pave the way from Cooktown and Cairn.
Meanwhile Coen has reached airfield size (2). Tonight the first Australian fighters will start their training.
The base is not drawing any supply by land, I have to airlift everything. Sounds like a minor map problem to me.

PACIFIC
The bittersweet victory of yesterday h[:o] as not altered the balance heavily, but has eroded part of his advantage.
The (24) ships strong carrier TF is headed back to Suva. I need to dock the Enterprise and to replenish the air squadrons of the Saratoga and Wasp.
The other carriers will join this group within two days.
Some 500 planes are at Fiji airfields, he cannot come close or it’s game over.
I now have (5) CVE’s available. (1) is in SF, (3) on their way to PH and (1)a few hexes from Suva.

The strategy in the Pacific is quite simple.
Canton is out because I cannot use LBA and it’s too far from my bases. Unless I win a more decisive carrier battle I have to stay within a couple of days distance from my airfields. To run back under air cover if I’m wounded.
There are two possible attack vectors and two only: Guadalcanal and Tarawa.
When will it happen? It all depends on the speed at which my Seabees build up the bases and, of course, by any Jap reaction.
Given the relatively short distance (max one week) between the three potential objectives - NG, Guadalcanal and Tarawa – I’ll switch the intensity of the push mainly according to his reaction.
On my side I have a) the increasing exp of my pilots, b) a powerful US Navy (albeit with low crew experience): I have all BBs but one and all CV’s, c) the Seabees, d) the P-38.
On the Jap side: a) GH’s skills!! [8|], b) my damned patrol planes, they always spot the carriers when it’s too late. [:@] I cannot rely on them. C) Japanese Navy’s fighters.

That’s all folks for today.
I hope Tom is a bit more satisfied. [;)] [:)]