Japanese Death Star Artillery

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Terminus
We're discussing it at the moment. Stay tuned.

Thanks, Terminus. Knowing that you guys are evaluating the situation are all I can ask for. It's also pretty cool that once again the people who created this game are so responsive.

[Q-Ball]

JOIN the EMPIRE, don't fight it![:@]

[Chickenboy]

[:D]

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: pad152

ORIGINAL: Terminus

We're discussing it at the moment. Stay tuned.

Well in the example given there are 8 artillery battalions and 9 artillery regiments, plus infantry units, I just don't see the issue here!

So when the Russians show up with Artillery Divisions and Corps you won't have any problem with entire Japanese Armies being destroyed in a turn or two? [:D]

[DuckofTindalos]

Oooh, Scholl twists the knife in the wound... Nice![:D]

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Oooh, Scholl twists the knife in the wound... Nice![:D]

Just thought I'd point out that artillery devastation is a two-way street...

[DuckofTindalos]

There you go, raining on people's whining parade with your logic...[:D]

[Canoerebel]

Q-Ball has been jealous of my ability to handle artillery ever since this occurred:

[Q-Ball]

I might be disappointed if she wasn't a vegetarian, and could act worth a crap.[:D]

Seriously, after her performance in Star Wars I, I wanted the Empire to win. At least they have a pair.

Hopefully Jar Jar was on Alderon when it was toasted.

I guess this is getting a little OT from modelling of Japanese Artillery....

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: pad152

ORIGINAL: Terminus

We're discussing it at the moment. Stay tuned.

Well in the example given there are 8 artillery battalions and 9 artillery regiments, plus infantry units, I just don't see the issue here!

So when the Russians show up with Artillery Divisions and Corps you won't have any problem with entire Japanese Armies being destroyed in a turn or two? [:D]

Are you actually suggesting that is not what happened in August 1945? [:)]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I might be disappointed if she wasn't a vegetarian, and could act worth a crap.[:D]

Seriously, after her performance in Star Wars I, I wanted the Empire to win. At least they have a pair.

Hopefully Jar Jar was on Alderon when it was toasted.

I guess this is getting a little OT from modelling of Japanese Artillery....

Model schmodel.... when the Japanese empty all the tubes out of Manchuria and unleash them on a disorganised rabble what would you think should happen?[:)]

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: pad152

ORIGINAL: Terminus

We're discussing it at the moment. Stay tuned.

Well in the example given there are 8 artillery battalions and 9 artillery regiments, plus infantry units, I just don't see the issue here!

So when the Russians show up with Artillery Divisions and Corps you won't have any problem with entire Japanese Armies being destroyed in a turn or two? [:D]

You might want to read about the boarder clashes between Japanese and Russians forces! Every time the Russians show up in force the Japanese were defeated! When war starts between Japan and Russia, the Russians are going to win, the expereince levels for Russians forces are sooooooo over the top, artillery won't make a bit of difference!

[Canoerebel]

(Yes, I've gone off-topic and hijacked my own thread, but Terminus answered the original question to my satisfaction, so now I am turning my attention to Q-Ball).

[treespider]

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[88l71]

Don't forget US div's have a lot more (and better) organic artillery.

[crsutton]

In my pbemail as the Allies, artillery has blown me out of Singapore, Bataan and is working me over in China. I imagine the Allies can do the same thing later on but it is out of whack in my opinion. Fix it or somefink.[;)]

[wpurdom]

The artillery results here are quite comparable to WWI stats and reasonable for a static front (where the opponent is digging in) with railroads. I wouldn't be surprised if it would accord with the results at Stalingrad.

Under most, but not all, circumstances in WWII the fronts were more fluid and the logistics wouldn't support this. But consider the attack on Army Group Center in Bylorussia(sp)? If there is going to be a quick fix, folk are going to be satisfied with a rough approximation that is inappropriate in many situations.

At the beginning of this thread, I saw it asserted that reserve status doesn't protect against bombardment, elsewhere the contrary has been asserted - perhaps in Seydlitz's AAR, perhaps by Treespider. It would be appropriate to have a definitive answer. I don't really think quoting the manual answers the question since the manual is not that clear on that point to me.

I wonder what happens if you put all or most of your forces on reserve and you're kicked out of the hex. Are your losses less than if you're kicked out after a fight to the death? Is this the way to escape bombardments and retreat? How do the reserves react in practice to an attack? The Chinese defended in a very mobile way outside of the cities in China - can that be modelled in AE - draw the Japs off, then react. Or must the mobile force be consumed. This would not be feasible, and shouldn't be allowable on many/most of the islands.

Any of the modellers out there willing to provide the community with a test? Apollo11, are you there?

[wpurdom]

Treespider:

Model schmodel.... when the Japanese empty all the tubes out of Manchuria and unleash them on a disorganised rabble what would you think should happen?

If a fight to the death (Hold at all costs) in the city, maybe what is actually happening. If the country, the rabble should fade out without too much damage either in personnel or morale.

[Canoerebel]

For you guys that are taking the position that just maybe this is historical, stop and think a minute about what you are saying.  There is no way to defend against this strategy and because of it all of China will fall.  You think that's good for the game? 
 
Not to mention that it is entirely a-historical.

[wpurdom]

I think the China front as a whole is very ahistorical. The artillery effects are probably OK for some circumstances and way off base for others. Allowing the Allies to control the Red Army is also very ahistorical, but fixing it would probably lead to even more ahistorical overall outcomes.
I am skeptical of the ability to accomodate good modelling of a front where guerilla warfare is important in a game where island assaults are even more important, not to mention air and naval combat. Solutions - Either you need to freeze the front and take it out of the game except in very abstract terms like in Grisby's early version Eastern front game, (not familiar with the current version) or you're going to have a rough model that doesn't simulate the reality of the front, but more accurately leaves the front in balance until some smart gamer figures out a flaw, or you're going to have to design a whole new game with different mechanics for China. Or let the Japs go ahead and conquer China in some versions and freeze the front in others and argue over which version to play with your partner.


There's also the Korean War solution - let the Japs withdraw artillery from Manchuria, conquer Red Chinese cities, etc., only at the cost of increasing the chance of Soviet intervention. Just because the Japs got away with briefly drawing down their occupation forces when their anti-bomber offensive went in in 1944, doesn't mean that they weren't running a risk of bad consequences.