MG42s... wtf

[TheReal_Pak40]

Steve, Oddball, and Andrew,

Thanks for the explanations. I can now understand the logic behind your changes. However, with regards to this quote "For LSA I re-did significant parts of combat modeling to get more realistic results", I can't help but think that combat modeling in LSA is not realistic in it's current state - or at least a good deal less realistic than previous CC incarnations . I also think that anybody who has play tested the game in this state would come to the same conclusion.

I remember playing CC2 when it first came out. The MG42 would cut you down in the open but once you got your guys behind cover they were significantly better off. They might take a lot of suppression and even route or take a couple of casualties after a minute or two, but they wouldn't get cut down within seconds of hiding behind a stone wall or building. This is what you should be striving for IMO.

[patchogue]

When you read personal accounts of fighting the Germans the main issues are the machine guns, the mortars and the 88s - so the MG42 should be deadly because it was.

[DasHoff]

it should be deadly but it shouldn't be magic. go play the campaign with a human opponent, patch, and i guarantee you will change your tune

[SteveMcClaire]

ORIGINAL: TheReal_Pak40
I can't help but think that combat modeling in LSA is not realistic in it's current state - or at least a good deal less realistic than previous CC incarnations...

As I said in the original post, the MG area fire issue will be toned down some. If you have other specific cases you would like to bring up, please do.

Steve

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: patchogue

When you read personal accounts of fighting the Germans the main issues are the machine guns, the mortars and the 88s - so the MG42 should be deadly because it was.

Agreed - and the Tigers and the Me262 and the Blitzkrieg tactic as well. Yet the Axis still lost the war, both on and off the battlefield, so the Allies must have had some equally deadly fire power. If that was added to the game (i.e. the true effect of artillery, naval bombardment and air attack) it would be unplayable.

The real test of any war game is probably whether an experienced player can pretty much replicate the historical result. If experienced players find it impossible to do what the Allied infantry did historically, then something needs to be adjusted, which is what Steve is telling us will happen.

[Sheytan]

A 7.62 MM round isnt going to penetrate a stone facing. Sorry. As a ex Infantryman whom humped the "pig". I can assure you it wouldnt have any effect on a stone structure. If the gunner manages to hose the interior of the house via a window or doorway thats a different story. On brick facing a 7.62 MM round with sustained fire will begin to break the brick down, but outright penetration would be unlikely. If you were talking about a 50 cal, then brick would disintegrate, and allow penetration, and stone would break down, allowing progressive penetration. Again, ive fired all of these weapons, and was a squad gunner for the M60. Take it for what its worth.

Edited to add, the M60 was built with the MG42 design in mind. I also note the round for the MG42 was 7.92x57. Actually a heavier round the the 7.62x51 Nato. Hate to be hit by one of those puppys.

ORIGINAL: DasHoff

no, it happens in brick and stone houses as well. i understand MGs are lethal, but if you are behind brick or stone, wouldn't that stop bullet penetration somewhat? if it was the 50 cal MG i'd understand. my problem is, is that the damage is just as good as if he were firing at me with an inf gun. at the start of each round i have to make sure i am at the back of EVERY single house, because my opponent will just blind fire likely areas and kill half my team in a couple of bursts with his magic bullets before he even begins an attack

do different types of rounds have different penetration vs different materials in this game? it'd be sweet if they did. a 50 cal ripping into a house would be cool. i notice one of my AB groups on the 2nd drop has some 50 cals, i cant wait to use them