MG42s... wtf

[DasHoff]

a friend and I are playing through the GC, and i just have one issue: the MG42s. they are insane; they're like an AT gun with splash damage. i will have a squad in a building, in ambush mode, and if the enemy fires on that building (even though he can't see my men), instantly my men start dropping like flies. it's gotten to the point where i can't even go to the window anymore; i'm forced to wait at the back of the house. I notice the 30 cal will do the same, but to much less effect. This happens even at long range, and it also happens vs trenches and other cover as well. you'd think a guy lying in a trench or behind a brick wall on ambush mode wouldn't have that much trouble with bullets. i would say 70% of my deaths in the campaign so far (early 2nd day) have been from MG42s blind firing into houses

[MajFrankBurns]

I tell you what you go sit in a house and let me fire my MG42 into it and see how long you last from RICOCHET's!

[D.Ilse]

well it's max rate of fire is 1200rds/min..and it doesn't have a selective fire trigger like the MG34 so when you pull the trigger on the MG42 it full open.

[jomni]

I'm not complaining.  That MG is really insane and is being used until today.
Is the house made of wood?

[CSO_Talorgan]

ORIGINAL: D.Ilse

it doesn't have a selective fire trigger like the MG34

Seriously?

[DasHoff]

no, it happens in brick and stone houses as well. i understand MGs are lethal, but if you are behind brick or stone, wouldn't that stop bullet penetration somewhat? if it was the 50 cal MG i'd understand. my problem is, is that the damage is just as good as if he were firing at me with an inf gun. at the start of each round i have to make sure i am at the back of EVERY single house, because my opponent will just blind fire likely areas and kill half my team in a couple of bursts with his magic bullets before he even begins an attack

do different types of rounds have different penetration vs different materials in this game? it'd be sweet if they did. a 50 cal ripping into a house would be cool. i notice one of my AB groups on the 2nd drop has some 50 cals, i cant wait to use them

[D.Ilse]

ORIGINAL: CSO_Talorgan

ORIGINAL: D.Ilse

it doesn't have a selective fire trigger like the MG34

Seriously?

The MG34 could fire a single round or full auto.

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg34_rc.jpg

MG-34 was a selective fire weapon, with mode of fire being controlled by dual trigger. A pull on the upper part of the trigger produced single shots, while a pull on the lower part produced full auto bursts.

[RD Oddball]

I wonder what 1200 rounds per minute would do to the inside of a building if the rounds were fired through a window. [X(] I'd imagine there'd be more than one ricochet.

[DasHoff]

so that is a standard military tactic then? fire into a window and use ricochets to kill the enemy? because one of my guys dies with almost every burst. surely ricochets in combat aren't that deadly?

[jomni]

<deleted>

[CaptRio]

ORIGINAL: DasHoff

so that is a standard military tactic then? fire into a window and use ricochets to kill the enemy? because one of my guys dies with almost every burst. surely ricochets in combat aren't that deadly?

Dude!

Just retreat whenever you have a MG42 firing at your position, especially if you dont have enough frindlies flanking its position and a considerable firepower advantage.

Its just crazy to face a MG42 with a lone squad! [X(]

[RD Oddball]

ORIGINAL: DasHoff

so that is a standard military tactic then? fire into a window and use ricochets to kill the enemy? because one of my guys dies with almost every burst. surely ricochets in combat aren't that deadly?

Fats Domino style. [:D] No, sorry, wasn't suggesting that just throwing in an observation about the MG42 rate of fire. The thought kind of occurred to me. Didn't mean for it to be a direct reply to anyone. I usually quote the person I'm replying to when I'm replying directly.

I don't know if it helps but during the project the lead developer went through all the data files to normalize values relative to themselves and the terrain values so that there is some real world relativity between all of them in respect to each other. Not sure which weapon was used as the baseline reference.

[DasHoff]

ORIGINAL: CaptRio

ORIGINAL: DasHoff

so that is a standard military tactic then? fire into a window and use ricochets to kill the enemy? because one of my guys dies with almost every burst. surely ricochets in combat aren't that deadly?

Dude!

Just retreat whenever you have a MG42 firing at your position, especially if you dont have enough frindlies flanking its position and a considerable firepower advantage.

Its just crazy to face a MG42 with a lone squad! [X(]

i'm not facing the MG42... just hiding in ambush mode. i wouldn't try to shoot it out with a lone squad

[Redmarkus5]

You won't get many ricochets inside a normal house, whether made of wood, brick or standard concrete. Most rounds will either pass through or embed themselves in the far wall and the main effect should only be to suppress the occupants, with possibly a few minor wounds. Most internal walls will be might of materials (plaster and wood) that minimise the effect or chance of ricochets within the structure. Even a reinforced concrete bunker will contain design features to minimise the ricochet effect.

Where you could potentially get serious issues with ricochets is inside an armoured vehicle if small arms rounds do enter... however, that's too rare an event to be modelled by the game. On the other hand, German troops sometimes forced tank crews out of their vehicles by firing 37mm AA canon at them - no penetrations but the noise inside was too much to bear and the crews would bail out in shock.

If DasHoff is actually seeing 70% casualties from MG42 fire, them it sounds to me like something is wrong. Unless targeting troops moving in the open, MG fire should pin and/or suppress, rather than kill troops under cover. Even troops lying down in the open should have a reasonable chance of survival as long as enemy infantry doesn't close with them.

[Uncle_Joe]

IMO, the CC series has always inflated lethality of weapons vs infantry. Well, at the very least they allow you to SPOT and fire on infantry way too easily. Once spotted, it's very easily to just pour on the firepower until the unit is destroyed.

Casualties rates in the game are EXTREMELY high IMO. At the rate the game allows, entire regiments would be wiped out in an afternoon as a matter of course.

[Dundradal]

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

Casualties rates in the game are EXTREMELY high IMO. At the rate the game allows, entire regiments would be wiped out in an afternoon as a matter of course.

But that's what makes it fun at times. There's nothing better than decimating an enemy. [:D]

[7A_Woulf]

...and I have a friend who thought the MGs were too weak in tLD. -Guess that someone always will be disappointed?

We can't really compare CC with the reality; -they didn't have a 15-20 min time-limit to complete their tasks, they could go to ground and call for artillery/mortars, they could move outside the map and flank the enemy, they didn't had an almighty commander that ordered them to move even if they had gone to ground and crawled for cover... [8|]

And 'yes'; -A single MG 42 could take out an entire squad in less than a minute, why do you think US squads started with a point-man? [8D]

[Reboot]

If you want to have some sick fun with a MG42 play Valkenswaard with it up in the 4-storey tower. You have to set as recruit (and against recruit so you have lots of inf targets) to get the MG42 in the static unit but then you can have 2500 rounds of bloodthirsty target practice (hey-I figure that is what sadistic SL had in mind when he built that tower). It ain't fair but you'll get intimate with the capabilities of the 42.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: 7A_Woulf

We can't really compare CC with the reality...

From the Matrix CC:LSA product page:

"STANDARD FEATURES FOR ALL CLOSE COMBAT VERSIONS
Accurately depicts World War II tactical warfare and its challenges
Accurate and realistic equipment modelling"

So, we shouldn't complain if the game doesn't have some kind of resemblance to reality?

[7A_Woulf]

We are taught that we have the right of free speech and as customers we have the right to complain about products if they are crap, complain all you want.

But if you are expecting a tactical simulator, you are screwed if you buy any computer game! Read my entire post, don't just quote the most suiting parts...

2 keywords: "depict", synonyms: "represent", "illustrate" and "give a picture of"
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "model", synonyms: "representation", "replica" and "reproduction"

I'm a WW II freak, and a reality freak! I could bash tons of details in CC, MoH, the Cross of Iron-games, Advanced Squad Leader and so on, but I don't 'cause they are just games! They give a felling of what happened and an opportunity to re-enact the battles.

Yes, the AI is hopeless as an attacker.
Yes, you have to slowly herd your vehicles to where you want them.
-That's real problems with LSA, and everyone will find their own problems to complain about, and that's fine with me! (Beside the big probs, I personally finds the low points hampering, there is too little ammunition for longer games and the FPs are only 'decent' in my eyes. -You see, I'm not really satisfied either.)

But you must give the developers some creds, they work to give us a good experience from what they got and can do. We can't expect a true simulator, don't even think that's within the scope of the AI and the current CC engine. With some patches (not too many I hope) I believe that LSA can be a great step up from previous CC games, and definitely as a h2h experience; -As CC should be played to come to it's full potential.

Just a final question: -Do you guys bash Microsoft just because you have to spent an hour upgrading and patching when you have installed your OS, or do you curse and accepts that that's the world of PCs and Windows?