No hard feelings here Nec. I will answer your post shortly or this evening. Too much busy now with work [;)].
=S=
Petition for Battleships in Starshatter
To Necromancer
Dear Necromancer,
I will answer this based on the principle that :
1. You own the current full version of SS, have entirely read the manual and offcourse, have paid the commercial price for it;
2. you have played all single missions and all campaigns;
3. you have played all MP missions and regularly play MP (I do and never see you there though, which doesn't mean you don't hook up with other people);
4. You've achieved the Rank of Grand Admiral (meaning you have at least 250.000 points - which is sign of significant SS experience) at least once and have seen what effect the different ranks have on play;
5. You have all or almost all the medals in SS (wich again, is a reflection of SS experience and it means you've been through almost everything the game can bring to you as scenario possibilities and variants);
6. You own and have played at least other titles of the genre like SFC (Starfleet Command), Star Wars (any or all of the space simulations), Battlecruiser, Nexus, Hegemonia, among others (and yes! There are others, like Dark Space, etc.).
This is for me the minimum "background" you need to have to understand why I post what I post, otherwhise I am loosing my time.
If you haven't explored all the above topics, my answer is :
"This is freedom of speech. As a registered user of the Matrix forums, I just posted as it is my right to do. I have respected the terms and agreements of this forum and I haven't offended or attacked anybody". So I will post anything related to SS, whenever I feel like it or whenever I want to, PERIOD.
You can find the terms of use of the Matrix Games websites and Forums here http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/termsofuse.asp
Now, if you are an "educated and studious" member of the SS community (meaning that you meet at least all those "requirements"I've mentioned above...), please take them in consideration and please read my comments, just below.
Well it is not yours either and unless you have read Milo's contract with Matrix games, you shouldn't be commenting/speculating on whatever exchanges you think there exist between Milo and Matrix games (wich is not my business either...).
But suppose Milo is working for Matrix games and that Matrix games has bought all rights over SS (wich seems to be the most likely option - as Matrix is a first line game company and not just a mere distributor of games - they have recently bought several titles that were offered for sale by other companies, which will be offered sometime for download here, in the Matrix website)?
Suppose Matrix games has bought all rights from Milo and has hired "Destroyer Studios" (Milo's company) to do all the Developping for this game, as they (Destroyer Studios) know SS better than anybody else, and this from the beggining?
If all this is right then :
1. Milo imagined this Universe, he implemented it, SOLD IT TO MATRIX and Matrix is distributing it - because if Milo wanted to distribute it, he wouldn't need Matrix (as you can easily set up a secure transaction site for digital downloads and payments and he could reach lots of people with amazon - that have a very interesting worldwide destribution service, for instance);
2. Now this is one of Matrix's "babies" and Matrix wants their money back.
Most unfortunately, MONEY is what is all about (to a few exceptions).
Matrix and Destroyer studios, as any intelligent and decent Game Company, work in a "long-term" perspective, which explains why feedback is appreciated.
Other, in order for any game to last (so sell more copies over time) it needs to create itself a name, become a reference among the "genre" (Like Microsoft's Flight Simulator series, for flight sims - everybody has or had sometime in his life, a version of MS flightsim and you can fly every aircraft in the world with it).
In order to create itself a name, a game has to please the vastest public possible.
To achieve this, a spacesim must offer :
1. An intuitive and simple interface (which is the case);
2. A vast universe with at least 5-6 different factions (not yet, as we are limited to 20 systems divided amongst 2 factions, an unknown empire and a few separatist/independent/pirate systems);
3. Variety (lots of objects) and all classes of ships represented, whith at least one ship of each class;
4. Stable MP capabilities (which is not the case yet, as SS only allows 8 players at the time and is plagued with countless bugs, on all sorts MP solutions it offers, judging by the too frequent CTDs, connectivity/built in game server issues and absence of 24/7 game servers) - if possible massive Multiplayer (32+).
A game that offers all this, with the simplicity of SS is inevitably a "BEST SELLER"!!
It can't be otherwhise...
I am sure Matrix will, sometime in history refit SS so it will become all of this and possibly much more.
You see, I love SS and it is whithin it's grasp to achieve all of this! I will do whatever I can to support a better SS and the addition of Battleships will add another "flavour" to SS.
Any influence that can bring more and better to the community is a good influence.
... the rest is pure "dogma", misplaced "conservativesm", lack of vision and as the americans say, "the rest is peanuts"!
You seem to know so much about the Universe Milo created. If that is the case, you have read the background history as written on the game manual and here is what it says :
"The galaxy has become dotted with human colonies and laced with trade
empires. First contacts have been made with a few rare alien civilizations."
Dotted means lots of human colonies (not just 20 starsystems divided between 2 major factions and 5 independent systems).
Trade Empires means "large factions" (so far only 2 empires in the game : Hegemony and Zolon).
A few rare Alien civilisations means at least 4 or 6. We know the Zolons exist, that the Ele'ann exist (as they are mentioned on one of the campaigns), so there must be some factions out there that are not yet part of the current full version of SS (4.03).
But there is more :
"When the first Tau Ceti probe discovered the terrestrial planet Clavius..."
Please look at the pic below and show me where the planet Clavius is :
I will give you a candy if you find the planet Cavius on that chart[:D]!
"Over the next seven centuries, humankind used the faster-than-light quantum drive
to explore and colonize dozens of star systems in the galactic region surrounding Sol,
ranging from the Clavius Colony in (...)"
Dozens of Star systems, not 20!!!... and as you see they are not on that chart either, and this during the "First Wave" period of huma expansion... you have no idea at all of how big it is, the SS Universe of the current timeline, do you buddy?... how can you even suggest it doesn't involve "ships as large as Battleships"... [:-]
Wait son, it is't over yet...
"Within a few years of starting the colony, the Marakan Colonists encountered the
edge of the alien Zolon Empire." and "the Zolon Empire considered the Nephrys system to be the southern
edge of their realm. Human starships that ventured further north than Nephrys
uniformly failed to report back to base."
Open the game (SS) and see in what state Nephrys is. There was once a Marakan Hegemoy colony there. Look at how the planet is. That couldn't be achieved by a cruiser...
I could go on for a few more hours on SS's universe background...
His Universe does involve larger ships than you can imagine. There is even substantial evidence in the game like an unfinished Zolon Command Cruiser (CC), that has no weapons.
There is also more evidence "here and there" of the existence of bigger classes of ships like this one :
Whatever it is inside that space dock/yard is lots bigger than a cruiser, as it occupies most of the screen.
I conclude that "what we have now" is a "hasty" version of SS, where the priority went to making a smaller "working universe", that could be credible and be released whithin a certain deadline, for commercial reasons.
If Milo had the time and/or the money to do it, SS would be now something bigger and better than SW, BSG, B5 and ST combined!
Evidence and some hidden elements in the game suppose huge bases and goals were set for the original universe but that couldn't be met for some reason.
Obvously, Matrix hasn't overlooked this and I am sure that sometime we will have a major refit of SS that will surprise the "Space game community" and become a best selelr, amongst titles such as the ones I have mentioned earlier.
This is where trying to influence/ask for/hope for or whatever you call it comes in!
You miss a few very important details :
1. I am not a modder;
2. I have no working knowledge of Magic - wich is not an intuitive software for begginers with no modding knowledge;
3. You need at least 2 months to have a minimum "working knowledge" of 3d modelling.
4. You need to know how to edit .def files, which takes lots of time as well.
5. as of now there is no manual on how to build models, not even a Magic manual.
6. The day has only 24 hours, and on a very calm business day, more than 12 hours elapse between the hour I leave home for work and the hour I get back home, perhaps even more. On the remaining time, I have to be a father (2 kids), a husband, play SS and other games and maintain Starshatter Central and... get some sleep.
I am only off on sundays but I dedicate at least 2 hours of SS play in my evenings and during the day (work allowing it), I update SS and participate in this community's life (forums, etc).
7. Most unfortunately I don't have the time to learn 3D modelling + def editing + dat formating ina reasonably short period.
Note that only a scarce few people playing this game, among all those copies sold or given can actually making working mods and they must be a dozen at max, on an Universe of perhaps 50,000 copies...
I don't possibly see how I could build a BB...
BBs exist in all those game titles of this "genre" so I don't see why they shouldn't appear here.
I really resent that remark. What have you done for this community? What are you giving to it other than bitter remarks?
I give my precious time and money to support people that have their projects for SS and for those that are no longer whith us, so that their contribution to the community is preserved and not forgotten.
This site that I "tout so much" costed more than 100 USD jus to start it over and costs over 53 USD per each 3 months, not to mention the endless hours I spend to maintain it and to keep it going, all this from my pocket with no external help from Matrix or Destroyer studios or anybody else.
I am not even mentioning Damocles's over 60 hours to create SSC in about 2,5 days and all the webmastering and efforts he is still delivering in order for people like you and me to have a community site for free.
I won't refer even the wonderfull help some of the community members are giving by volunteering to help on the site as moderators and staff.
Besides, you must think that most people don't have your knowledge of computers and any solution for the "end user " (the guy that is actually playing the game) must be simple and easy!
Well that is what the .dat was made for!
One single file instead of many, the ability to enable it directly from the options menu and MP capability - wich the .def series of files don't offer, not to mention the complicated editing of the stars.exe shortcut.
Again, for a 50 USD + game, I expect it to be nice and easy for the user, so he doesn't have to play the computer genius.[:-]
Even for modders it is very interesting to make a .dat version as it is a garanty that their work will be accessible to a vaster public and perpetuated by the possibility of MP.
As it has been said over and over, SSC freely hosts all sorts of SS related files (from your game screenshots to 400 MB + game mods), preferably in the .dat format, although there is no policy on it and there never will be an obligation to submit in .dat only.
Notwjitstanding it is a shame to limit the hours you have spent modding and tweaking your creations to a limited public.
I have demonstrated that the original product is bigger than you think.
Starshatter is the most wonderfull game of the "genre" but it needs a refit to last!
The modding community is already sensible to Battleships and they want them too, otherwhise Melkor would have ruled out the ISD, Damocles woundn't have included them on the B5 mods, TurgotZ the Yamato and so on.
BBs as well as other innovations are inevitable, some time in SS update history.
Besides, that new engined SS may bring more surprises than you can imagine!!![;)]
As I have said earlier, I am surprised on the resistance a few of the community members putted to the addition of 3 more ships models (3 BBs, one for each power). I am glad it has provoked some reaction in you, as debate is always good.
If you made some suggestions for SS earlier and they were not implemented and you gave up on them it is your fault.
You should never give in! Never!
Asking for what you wish is not nagging!
Besides, I am affraid that if the publishers and developpers had a problem with my posts they'd have contacted me by now.
Now, I have passed about 2h30 writing this instead of flying SS. I hope I won't have to go through this again for such an undocumented post.
=S=
I will answer this based on the principle that :
1. You own the current full version of SS, have entirely read the manual and offcourse, have paid the commercial price for it;
2. you have played all single missions and all campaigns;
3. you have played all MP missions and regularly play MP (I do and never see you there though, which doesn't mean you don't hook up with other people);
4. You've achieved the Rank of Grand Admiral (meaning you have at least 250.000 points - which is sign of significant SS experience) at least once and have seen what effect the different ranks have on play;
5. You have all or almost all the medals in SS (wich again, is a reflection of SS experience and it means you've been through almost everything the game can bring to you as scenario possibilities and variants);
6. You own and have played at least other titles of the genre like SFC (Starfleet Command), Star Wars (any or all of the space simulations), Battlecruiser, Nexus, Hegemonia, among others (and yes! There are others, like Dark Space, etc.).
This is for me the minimum "background" you need to have to understand why I post what I post, otherwhise I am loosing my time.
If you haven't explored all the above topics, my answer is :
"This is freedom of speech. As a registered user of the Matrix forums, I just posted as it is my right to do. I have respected the terms and agreements of this forum and I haven't offended or attacked anybody". So I will post anything related to SS, whenever I feel like it or whenever I want to, PERIOD.
You can find the terms of use of the Matrix Games websites and Forums here http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/termsofuse.asp
Now, if you are an "educated and studious" member of the SS community (meaning that you meet at least all those "requirements"I've mentioned above...), please take them in consideration and please read my comments, just below.
"Star shatter is the property of Matrix Games and Destroyer Studios and as such, it is a commercial venture."
Yes it is; but it's not your commercial venture, so you shouldn't go around trying to influence it, this is Milo's universe, he imagined it, he implemented it, and Matrix is distributing it for him.
Well it is not yours either and unless you have read Milo's contract with Matrix games, you shouldn't be commenting/speculating on whatever exchanges you think there exist between Milo and Matrix games (wich is not my business either...).
But suppose Milo is working for Matrix games and that Matrix games has bought all rights over SS (wich seems to be the most likely option - as Matrix is a first line game company and not just a mere distributor of games - they have recently bought several titles that were offered for sale by other companies, which will be offered sometime for download here, in the Matrix website)?
Suppose Matrix games has bought all rights from Milo and has hired "Destroyer Studios" (Milo's company) to do all the Developping for this game, as they (Destroyer Studios) know SS better than anybody else, and this from the beggining?
If all this is right then :
1. Milo imagined this Universe, he implemented it, SOLD IT TO MATRIX and Matrix is distributing it - because if Milo wanted to distribute it, he wouldn't need Matrix (as you can easily set up a secure transaction site for digital downloads and payments and he could reach lots of people with amazon - that have a very interesting worldwide destribution service, for instance);
2. Now this is one of Matrix's "babies" and Matrix wants their money back.
Most unfortunately, MONEY is what is all about (to a few exceptions).
Matrix and Destroyer studios, as any intelligent and decent Game Company, work in a "long-term" perspective, which explains why feedback is appreciated.
Other, in order for any game to last (so sell more copies over time) it needs to create itself a name, become a reference among the "genre" (Like Microsoft's Flight Simulator series, for flight sims - everybody has or had sometime in his life, a version of MS flightsim and you can fly every aircraft in the world with it).
In order to create itself a name, a game has to please the vastest public possible.
To achieve this, a spacesim must offer :
1. An intuitive and simple interface (which is the case);
2. A vast universe with at least 5-6 different factions (not yet, as we are limited to 20 systems divided amongst 2 factions, an unknown empire and a few separatist/independent/pirate systems);
3. Variety (lots of objects) and all classes of ships represented, whith at least one ship of each class;
4. Stable MP capabilities (which is not the case yet, as SS only allows 8 players at the time and is plagued with countless bugs, on all sorts MP solutions it offers, judging by the too frequent CTDs, connectivity/built in game server issues and absence of 24/7 game servers) - if possible massive Multiplayer (32+).
A game that offers all this, with the simplicity of SS is inevitably a "BEST SELLER"!!
It can't be otherwhise...
I am sure Matrix will, sometime in history refit SS so it will become all of this and possibly much more.
You see, I love SS and it is whithin it's grasp to achieve all of this! I will do whatever I can to support a better SS and the addition of Battleships will add another "flavour" to SS.
Any influence that can bring more and better to the community is a good influence.
... the rest is pure "dogma", misplaced "conservativesm", lack of vision and as the americans say, "the rest is peanuts"!
His universe doesn't involve Ships as large as battle ships, but being the considerate developer he is, he’s allowed us, the players and modders a way to make our own universes…
You seem to know so much about the Universe Milo created. If that is the case, you have read the background history as written on the game manual and here is what it says :
"The galaxy has become dotted with human colonies and laced with trade
empires. First contacts have been made with a few rare alien civilizations."
Dotted means lots of human colonies (not just 20 starsystems divided between 2 major factions and 5 independent systems).
Trade Empires means "large factions" (so far only 2 empires in the game : Hegemony and Zolon).
A few rare Alien civilisations means at least 4 or 6. We know the Zolons exist, that the Ele'ann exist (as they are mentioned on one of the campaigns), so there must be some factions out there that are not yet part of the current full version of SS (4.03).
But there is more :
"When the first Tau Ceti probe discovered the terrestrial planet Clavius..."
Please look at the pic below and show me where the planet Clavius is :
I will give you a candy if you find the planet Cavius on that chart[:D]!
"Over the next seven centuries, humankind used the faster-than-light quantum drive
to explore and colonize dozens of star systems in the galactic region surrounding Sol,
ranging from the Clavius Colony in (...)"
Dozens of Star systems, not 20!!!... and as you see they are not on that chart either, and this during the "First Wave" period of huma expansion... you have no idea at all of how big it is, the SS Universe of the current timeline, do you buddy?... how can you even suggest it doesn't involve "ships as large as Battleships"... [:-]
Wait son, it is't over yet...
"Within a few years of starting the colony, the Marakan Colonists encountered the
edge of the alien Zolon Empire." and "the Zolon Empire considered the Nephrys system to be the southern
edge of their realm. Human starships that ventured further north than Nephrys
uniformly failed to report back to base."
Open the game (SS) and see in what state Nephrys is. There was once a Marakan Hegemoy colony there. Look at how the planet is. That couldn't be achieved by a cruiser...
I could go on for a few more hours on SS's universe background...
His Universe does involve larger ships than you can imagine. There is even substantial evidence in the game like an unfinished Zolon Command Cruiser (CC), that has no weapons.
There is also more evidence "here and there" of the existence of bigger classes of ships like this one :
Whatever it is inside that space dock/yard is lots bigger than a cruiser, as it occupies most of the screen.
I conclude that "what we have now" is a "hasty" version of SS, where the priority went to making a smaller "working universe", that could be credible and be released whithin a certain deadline, for commercial reasons.
If Milo had the time and/or the money to do it, SS would be now something bigger and better than SW, BSG, B5 and ST combined!
Evidence and some hidden elements in the game suppose huge bases and goals were set for the original universe but that couldn't be met for some reason.
Obvously, Matrix hasn't overlooked this and I am sure that sometime we will have a major refit of SS that will surprise the "Space game community" and become a best selelr, amongst titles such as the ones I have mentioned earlier.
This is where trying to influence/ask for/hope for or whatever you call it comes in!
you don’t like the fact that there’s not any battle ships in Star Shatter, then darn it make some for yourself
You miss a few very important details :
1. I am not a modder;
2. I have no working knowledge of Magic - wich is not an intuitive software for begginers with no modding knowledge;
3. You need at least 2 months to have a minimum "working knowledge" of 3d modelling.
4. You need to know how to edit .def files, which takes lots of time as well.
5. as of now there is no manual on how to build models, not even a Magic manual.
6. The day has only 24 hours, and on a very calm business day, more than 12 hours elapse between the hour I leave home for work and the hour I get back home, perhaps even more. On the remaining time, I have to be a father (2 kids), a husband, play SS and other games and maintain Starshatter Central and... get some sleep.
I am only off on sundays but I dedicate at least 2 hours of SS play in my evenings and during the day (work allowing it), I update SS and participate in this community's life (forums, etc).
7. Most unfortunately I don't have the time to learn 3D modelling + def editing + dat formating ina reasonably short period.
Note that only a scarce few people playing this game, among all those copies sold or given can actually making working mods and they must be a dozen at max, on an Universe of perhaps 50,000 copies...
I don't possibly see how I could build a BB...
BBs exist in all those game titles of this "genre" so I don't see why they shouldn't appear here.
and post them on your site you tout so much (and don’t forget to put them in .dat format)…
I really resent that remark. What have you done for this community? What are you giving to it other than bitter remarks?
I give my precious time and money to support people that have their projects for SS and for those that are no longer whith us, so that their contribution to the community is preserved and not forgotten.
This site that I "tout so much" costed more than 100 USD jus to start it over and costs over 53 USD per each 3 months, not to mention the endless hours I spend to maintain it and to keep it going, all this from my pocket with no external help from Matrix or Destroyer studios or anybody else.
I am not even mentioning Damocles's over 60 hours to create SSC in about 2,5 days and all the webmastering and efforts he is still delivering in order for people like you and me to have a community site for free.
I won't refer even the wonderfull help some of the community members are giving by volunteering to help on the site as moderators and staff.
Besides, you must think that most people don't have your knowledge of computers and any solution for the "end user " (the guy that is actually playing the game) must be simple and easy!
Well that is what the .dat was made for!
One single file instead of many, the ability to enable it directly from the options menu and MP capability - wich the .def series of files don't offer, not to mention the complicated editing of the stars.exe shortcut.
Again, for a 50 USD + game, I expect it to be nice and easy for the user, so he doesn't have to play the computer genius.[:-]
Even for modders it is very interesting to make a .dat version as it is a garanty that their work will be accessible to a vaster public and perpetuated by the possibility of MP.
As it has been said over and over, SSC freely hosts all sorts of SS related files (from your game screenshots to 400 MB + game mods), preferably in the .dat format, although there is no policy on it and there never will be an obligation to submit in .dat only.
Notwjitstanding it is a shame to limit the hours you have spent modding and tweaking your creations to a limited public.
So instead of influencing the original product, which is a wonderful game, influence the modding community… put them in yourself, plenty of other modders do… I think Milo did a damn good job of thinking big when he developed this title by himself, he gave you all the tools you need to make it bigger yourself, so do it. Make the ships yourself, or if you don’t have the capacity or talent to do it (not trying to make a cheap shot there) have someone do it for you. I’ve made mods in the past for star-shatter, none were earth shaking good but I did it because I could… so if you want battle ships make them… but don’t expect Milo to do it for you… he’s got plenty to work on right now as it stands re-writing the engine and all…
I have demonstrated that the original product is bigger than you think.
Starshatter is the most wonderfull game of the "genre" but it needs a refit to last!
The modding community is already sensible to Battleships and they want them too, otherwhise Melkor would have ruled out the ISD, Damocles woundn't have included them on the B5 mods, TurgotZ the Yamato and so on.
BBs as well as other innovations are inevitable, some time in SS update history.
Besides, that new engined SS may bring more surprises than you can imagine!!![;)]
I’m sorry, I’m not normally one to rant (um…or for that matter post much), but I do read the forums, and somehow this particular topic just ticked me off, I’ve made suggestions for Star Shatter in the past (animated beams and long, long ago on the original Star Shatter boards for a way to scale missile explosions) and they didn’t get implemented,
But you don’t see me nagging endlessly about it…stop Diabolico you’ve got the tools to do what you want done, use them to do it but stop nagging the developer and publishers to do it for you…
As I have said earlier, I am surprised on the resistance a few of the community members putted to the addition of 3 more ships models (3 BBs, one for each power). I am glad it has provoked some reaction in you, as debate is always good.
If you made some suggestions for SS earlier and they were not implemented and you gave up on them it is your fault.
You should never give in! Never!
Asking for what you wish is not nagging!
Besides, I am affraid that if the publishers and developpers had a problem with my posts they'd have contacted me by now.
Now, I have passed about 2h30 writing this instead of flying SS. I hope I won't have to go through this again for such an undocumented post.
=S=
RE: Petition for Battleships in Starshatter
I suggest you grow up kid!... and get the full verson before you talk of things you ignore about SS and suggest you actually support the game before ranting on the people that go above and beyond for it. [:-]
=S=
=S=
RE: Petition for Battleships in Starshatter
Milo started looking publisher when most of the game was done. There wasn't much left when he signed contract with Matrix. I know, I was there. You can find plenty of Starshatter development history from here:But suppose Milo is working for Matrix games
http://www.starshatter.com/forum
What if Matrix don't aim for vast public? Only Matrix game I know has big name is Steel Panthers World At War. It sure please vast public.In order to create itself a name, a game has to please the vastest public possible.
But how about War in the Pacific? There are few people who love that game and they worhip its creator, Gary Grigsby, as their god. But descriptions I have read about that game indicate it is too heavy (too good?) for vast public.
That scare shit out of me! I don't want try even demo!Gary Grigsby's strategic level wargame covering the entire War in the Pacific from 1941 to 1945 or beyond. Every naval unit, land unit and air unit is represented with turns lasting one to three days. Every aspect of the war is now yours to play. Several scenarios covering smaller campaigns are provided along with with larger scenarios covering years as well as a full grand campaign.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.
MekWars
MekWars
-
Necromancer
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:53 pm
RE: To Necromancer
1. You own the current full version of SS, have entirely read the manual and offcourse, have paid the commercial price for it;
2. you have played all single missions and all campaigns;
3. you have played all MP missions and regularly play MP (I do and never see you there though, which doesn't mean you don't hook up with other people);
4. You've achieved the Rank of Grand Admiral (meaning you have at least 250.000 points - which is sign of significant SS experience) at least once and have seen what effect the different ranks have on play;
5. You have all or almost all the medals in SS (wich again, is a reflection of SS experience and it means you've been through almost everything the game can bring to you as scenario possibilities and variants);
6. You own and have played at least other titles of the genre like SFC (Starfleet Command), Star Wars (any or all of the space simulations), Battlecruiser, Nexus, Hegemonia, among others (and yes! There are others, like Dark Space, etc.).
Sounds to me like I have no voice in this forum (according to you) if I don't own the commercial game, have a lot of time to play it, have a worthwhile internet connection (or a home-based lan), actually think that the points and metals you earn in a game have some effect on real life, all that and have time to play other games as well... so if that's the case I'd like to refer you to:
http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/termsofuse.asp
I'm not going to argue over what goes between Matrix and Milo... that wasn't
the point of my origional post...
ORIGINAL: Diabolico
2. A vast universe with at least 5-6 different factions (not yet, as we are limited to 20 systems divided amongst 2 factions, an unknown empire and a few separatist/independent/pirate systems);
3. Variety (lots of objects) and all classes of ships represented, whith at least one ship of each class;
While I agree that variety is good in a game, my point still is, this is all
fluff.. Not needed to convey the stories that Milo wanted to convey... I can't
say I know his background and universe inside and out, but look, I as a programmer don't tack on tons and tons of extra stuff that won't ever be used from my core application... If I'm programming an accounting program to look at my company's Trial Balance I don't throw in the capability to look at the Bill of Materials for Items... It just won't get used, takes up more space and basically serves no real purpose. There might be only 4 defined factions (one being the miscellaneous pirates/raiders group) but Milo provided IFF codes into the thousands....the point is we have room for waaaaaay more than just 4 factions.
ORIGINAL: Diabolico
as the americans say, "the rest is peanuts"!
I can't actually remember ever saying that...or knowing anyone who says that..and if those words ever spew forth from my mouth I hope someone would have the mercy to shoot me where I stand and put me out of my misery...[:D]
See my PM on that...ORIGINAL: Diabolico
Wait son, it is't over yet...
I think you've got a lot of nerve here... Milo's spent what, maybe 4-5 years on SS... pretty cheap shot if you ask me...ORIGINAL: Diabolico
I conclude that "what we have now" is a "hasty" version of SS, where the priority went to making a smaller "working universe", that could be credible and be released whithin a certain deadline, for commercial reasons.
I lack vision!? SS is bigger and better than those games...frankly I've played quite a few space simmie type games... SS seems to be the only one that can keep my intrest...ORIGINAL: Diabolico
If Milo had the time and/or the money to do it, SS would be now something bigger and better than SW, BSG, B5 and ST combined!
Nope, I didn't actually...that was my point...ORIGINAL: Diabolicoyou don’t like the fact that there’s not any battle ships in Star Shatter, then darn it make some for yourself
You miss a few very important details :
ORIGINAL: Diabolico
1. I am not a modder;
2. I have no working knowledge of Magic - wich is not an intuitive software for begginers with no modding knowledge;
3. You need at least 2 months to have a minimum "working knowledge" of 3d modelling.
4. You need to know how to edit .def files, which takes lots of time as well.
5. as of now there is no manual on how to build models, not even a Magic manual.
6. The day has only 24 hours, and on a very calm business day, more than 12 hours elapse between the hour I leave home for work and the hour I get back home, perhaps even more. On the remaining time, I have to be a father (2 kids), a husband, play SS and other games and maintain Starshatter Central and... get some sleep.
I am only off on sundays but I dedicate at least 2 hours of SS play in my evenings and during the day (work allowing it), I update SS and participate in this community's life (forums, etc).
7. Most unfortunately I don't have the time to learn 3D modelling + def editing + dat formating ina reasonably short period.
As of right now, you may not like me very much, but, hey, look I'm going to extend an olive branch here...
1. Ok, if your interested in becomming a modder, I'd be glad to help.
2. Don't use magic, I don't, I use a combo of Anim8tor and 3dsMax,
Anim8tor will work all by it's lonesome quite well...
3. No you really don't, noone will laugh at a first try...and you have to
start somewhere...
4. I an anyone else here would really be happy to help you there.. it's not
that hard...
5. When I started modding, I looked and looked for a book on how to make
models, i believe most people actually have their own style...you'd have
to get a feel for what your style would be. There's very few 'wrong ways'
to make a model.
6. Yep...my clock agrees..24 hours...and I too spend a ton of time away from
my family (4 kids -- adding one more in april or may of this year -- YAY!!)
I tend to not get 2 hrs to play games at night... and while I'm off on
weekends, I spend saturday training our horses and sunday Jousting with
with them... so by the time I get to bed on Sunday I'm a bit pooped too...
I don't normally post because all I've got time for normally is reading
the posts...but I'll sacrifice a lunch hour here and there...(like now)
7. If you want to learn it, I'd be more than willing to help you off the
forum, we could email back and forth...I could give you examples ect...
maybe it would make learning quicker for you... but just a suggestion.
As suggested above...I'd be glad to help...I'm not a complete D!@k...ORIGINAL: Diabolico
I don't possibly see how I could build a BB...
Right. This is where I eat crow all... This was a bad statement by me and it was in absolutly poor form... I exetend a heart-felt apology to you Diab. I guess I just allowed myself to get more fired up than I should have..ORIGINAL: DiabolicoI really resent that remark. What have you done for this community? What are you giving to it other than bitter remarks?and post them on your site you tout so much (and don’t forget to put them in .dat format)…
Actually, I don't only play a computer genius...I work as one as well (more affectionatly known as 'mr. fixit')...every day...day in and day out...over and over and over and over ::ORIGINAL: Diabolico
Besides, you must think that most people don't have your knowledge of computers and any solution for the "end user " (the guy that is actually playing the game) must be simple and easy!
Well that is what the .dat was made for!
One single file instead of many, the ability to enable it directly from the options menu and MP capability - wich the .def series of files don't offer, not to mention the complicated editing of the stars.exe shortcut.
Again, for a 50 USD + game, I expect it to be nice and easy for the user, so he doesn't have to play the computer genius.[:-]
:: what!? did you see it...the AS400 is mocking me... :::: didn't you see it!? :::: no one believes me.....maybe so...but developers do what they do for a reason...being a programmer I can understand that and I'm only going to post a suggestion once...ORIGINAL: Diabolico
If you made some suggestions for SS earlier and they were not implemented and you gave up on them it is your fault.
Sorry to have wasted your time...wasn't my intention to begin with.ORIGINAL: Diabolico
Now, I have passed about 2h30 writing this instead of flying SS. I hope I won't have to go through this again for such an undocumented post.
Necromancer
RE: Petition for Battleships in Starshatter
Milo started looking publisher when most of the game was done. There wasn't much left when he signed contract with Matrix. I know, I was there. You can find plenty of Starshatter development history from here:
http://www.starshatter.com/forum
What is in the forums is cool but nothing is more important than what is on the manual. period.
What if Matrix don't aim for vast public? Only Matrix game I know has big name is Steel Panthers World At War. It sure please vast public.
Well if they don't, they'll probably be swallowed by a bigger company and perhaps lots of things will change...
I don't know what is War in the pacific and don't see how it is related to SS.
RE: To Necromancer
There we go again...
I don't think it is a cheap shot. milo did an AWESOME work. I love this game because I go far beyond the limits we've described above. SS is a platform for me to express my imagination.
I go as far as reproducing any known boardgame scenario with it (for space Batles I mean).
Nevertheless Milo is a 1 man army and he has done most of the work.
He is not a leader of a game development company, with a team of developpers working for him. He achieved so much in considerably little time, for the size of the task.
Nevertheless what generally happens when game companies buy projects or smaller companies is a general refit like Matrix games is doing for an old space sim wich I don't remember anymore how it is called.
Anyway I am under the impression (in view of the facts I've presented - including objects that exist in the current commercial version and evidence in the manual), that the original version of SS is a lot bigger, but time will tell... [;)]
I agree, me too. I have always been saying that. Furthermore I try to support it as best as I can, above and beyond the call of duty.
I accept your offer, though I am not sure it is for me. It seems to be very demanding. But lets try...
=S=
I think you've got a lot of nerve here... Milo's spent what, maybe 4-5 years on SS... pretty cheap shot if you ask me...
I don't think it is a cheap shot. milo did an AWESOME work. I love this game because I go far beyond the limits we've described above. SS is a platform for me to express my imagination.
I go as far as reproducing any known boardgame scenario with it (for space Batles I mean).
Nevertheless Milo is a 1 man army and he has done most of the work.
He is not a leader of a game development company, with a team of developpers working for him. He achieved so much in considerably little time, for the size of the task.
Nevertheless what generally happens when game companies buy projects or smaller companies is a general refit like Matrix games is doing for an old space sim wich I don't remember anymore how it is called.
Anyway I am under the impression (in view of the facts I've presented - including objects that exist in the current commercial version and evidence in the manual), that the original version of SS is a lot bigger, but time will tell... [;)]
I lack vision!? SS is bigger and better than those games...frankly I've played quite a few space simmie type games... SS seems to be the only one that can keep my intrest...
I agree, me too. I have always been saying that. Furthermore I try to support it as best as I can, above and beyond the call of duty.
As of right now, you may not like me very much, but, hey, look I'm going to extend an olive branch here...
1. Ok, if your interested in becomming a modder, I'd be glad to help.
2. Don't use magic, I don't, I use a combo of Anim8tor and 3dsMax,
Anim8tor will work all by it's lonesome quite well...
3. No you really don't, noone will laugh at a first try...and you have to
start somewhere...
4. I an anyone else here would really be happy to help you there.. it's not
that hard...
5. When I started modding, I looked and looked for a book on how to make
models, i believe most people actually have their own style...you'd have
to get a feel for what your style would be. There's very few 'wrong ways'
to make a model.
6. Yep...my clock agrees..24 hours...and I too spend a ton of time away from
my family (4 kids -- adding one more in april or may of this year -- YAY!!)
I tend to not get 2 hrs to play games at night... and while I'm off on
weekends, I spend saturday training our horses and sunday Jousting with
with them... so by the time I get to bed on Sunday I'm a bit pooped too...
I don't normally post because all I've got time for normally is reading
the posts...but I'll sacrifice a lunch hour here and there...(like now)
7. If you want to learn it, I'd be more than willing to help you off the
forum, we could email back and forth...I could give you examples ect...
maybe it would make learning quicker for you... but just a suggestion.
I accept your offer, though I am not sure it is for me. It seems to be very demanding. But lets try...
=S=
RE: To Necromancer
Game is released by Matrix (SS is released by Matrix too) and that game is not meant for vast public. It is meant for hardcore heavy strategy freaks. If Steel Panthers World At War is tank, then what I have understood about War in the Pacific, it is battleship. If all commercial games would be directed for vast public, games of that battleship caliber would not exist.I don't know what is War in the pacific and don't see how it is related to SS.
Meaning of this is to demonstrate you that it is not only profit what Matrix Games is after. Marc, what do you say about this?
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.
MekWars
MekWars
RE: To Necromancer
Again, profit is a matter of balance of many things.
Matrix games as any company, needs profit to live, otherwhise it will close down.
If the game you mentioned is destined to a particular public, I am sure Matrix did or is doing whatbis necessary so it stays the best of that kind, for that kind of public.
SS is ment for the general public, as the hardcore simmer won't find an FS style space sim here and the strategist won't find a "space harpoon" game.
SS is a Jack of all trades... so it has to go above and beyond...
BTW, how many years of sales experience do you have? How many projects have you lead?
Matrix games as any company, needs profit to live, otherwhise it will close down.
If the game you mentioned is destined to a particular public, I am sure Matrix did or is doing whatbis necessary so it stays the best of that kind, for that kind of public.
SS is ment for the general public, as the hardcore simmer won't find an FS style space sim here and the strategist won't find a "space harpoon" game.
SS is a Jack of all trades... so it has to go above and beyond...
BTW, how many years of sales experience do you have? How many projects have you lead?
suggestion
Just an idea: when the two of you can get the modelling sessions done and there are no big surprises regarding the shiplist in the next Star Shatter release maybe you could make a MOD together: "Starshatter Expanded". You could add all those Ship types that are missing right now: Corvettes, Battleships and Freighters[;)]
No seriously I'd be happy to help out as soon as I have got most of my Star Trek stuff ready...which would be sometime around 2050.
Anyone else crazy enought to join in?
No seriously I'd be happy to help out as soon as I have got most of my Star Trek stuff ready...which would be sometime around 2050.
Anyone else crazy enought to join in?
-
Necromancer
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:53 pm
RE: To Necromancer
Although...you have to admit...a "space harpoon" game would be quite cool...ORIGINAL: Diabolico
SS is ment for the general public, as the hardcore simmer won't find an FS style space sim here and the strategist won't find a "space harpoon" game.
Is that directed at Matti or me?ORIGINAL: Diabolico
BTW, how many years of sales experience do you have? How many projects have you lead?
Necromancer
RE: To Necromancer
Is that directed at Matti or me?
To Matty, who doesn't get anything done, only knows how to rant (and to my knowledge) does't and hasn't done anything to improve this community.[:D]
=S=
RE: suggestion
Freighters are already there.ORIGINAL: Mr. D
You could add all those Ship types that are missing right now: Corvettes, Battleships and Freighters[;)]
I recommend you to try out Rules of Engagement and Starfleet Command series. They could be close.Although...you have to admit...a "space harpoon" game would be quite cool...
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.
MekWars
MekWars
RE: suggestion
ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
Freighters are already there.ORIGINAL: Mr. D
You could add all those Ship types that are missing right now: Corvettes, Battleships and Freighters[;)]
I am aware of this fact, that is why I made a " [;)] " behind the word "Freighter", besides there is also a Corvette in the game.
But my point was that I can't believe that there are only this little amount of civillian and comercial vessels in this universe.
I am aware that this is still a militay simulation and not "Starshatter Privateer", but my idea was that the average pirate for example would not just use fighters and corvettes, but also converted freighters with weapons and supercharged engines to catch up with abd disable its target. They would also serve as a "poor man's battleship" (no pun intended!) to fend off potential rivals and the occasional military ship you are bound to bump into, althought I would not count on it that would be their largest ship in use.[:D]
I also thought that there would be more variety in size and purpose for civillian ships, if only for use as additional "plot devices", like passenger liners, smuggling ships ("Millennium Falcon" -style) and large tankers.
RE: suggestion
But my point was that I can't believe that there are only this little amount of civillian and comercial vessels in this universe.
My point's exactly!!! I have demonstrated evidence that suggests that SS is a lot bigger and that some factions are indeed missing (at least the Ele'an and the earth Empire, not to mention a few other "rare alien civilisations", according to the game's manual).
It's too few, even for a 20 starsystem universe.
I am aware that this is still a militay simulation and not "Starshatter Privateer", but my idea was that the average pirate for example would not just use fighters and corvettes, but also converted freighters with weapons and supercharged engines to catch up with abd disable its target. They would also serve as a "poor man's battleship" (no pun intended!) to fend off potential rivals and the occasional military ship you are bound to bump into, althought I would not count on it that would be their largest ship in use.
Why not let your imagination grow and go one step further and have pirate BBs as well? Like a BB crew that decided to remain loyal to a loosing political faction on a power struggle? we shouldn't be limited by "stereotyped conceptions". A game's main goal is to give fun to the players. All is possible.
I also thought that there would be more variety in size and purpose for civillian ships, if only for use as additional "plot devices", like passenger liners, smuggling ships ("Millennium Falcon" -style) and large tankers.
Indeed! My feeling is exactly the same. I have suggested and still suggest, at least one ship of each class for each faction and all classes of ships represented.
=S=
RE: suggestion
ORIGINAL: Diabolico
Why not let your imagination grow and go one step further and have pirate BBs as well? Like a BB crew that decided to remain loyal to a loosing political faction on a power struggle? we shouldn't be limited by "stereotyped conceptions". A game's main goal is to give fun to the players. All is possible.
I thought more of slightly outdated ships that were scavenged from old battlefields, abandoned due to lucky shots from the enemy that hit the reactor (brownout) or life support, or "arranged" from mothball storage and through black market transfer. Those ships would presumably be refitted with.... well whatever big guns the average pirate has got in his arsenal.
I guess they would be hitpoint heavy, bot not with the usual bite associated with a ship of that size, or at least not with the armament usually installed.
I guess if I only had pdbs and those Raider Cannons and such a big hull to arm I'd FILL IT WITH THOSE CANNONS!
Presumably not very scary to a real BB, but still enought against anybody else![:D]
I do not intend to be limited by the military theme in this game, but I thought for the start it would be wise not to drift too far away, not to get from "wood to stick", as we Germans say.
RE: suggestion
Very interesting perspective indeed, that of Old BBs abandoned because of damage. [:D]
Or even old fleet cemeteries or space parks, where ancient fleet models are parked, like the equivalent of the Arizona airbase where the US stocks all those modern and old aircraft that have passed their flight hour limit.
A rebel faction or pirates could well seize those BBs, cruisers and Destroyers and refit them with whatever means available.
=S=
Or even old fleet cemeteries or space parks, where ancient fleet models are parked, like the equivalent of the Arizona airbase where the US stocks all those modern and old aircraft that have passed their flight hour limit.
A rebel faction or pirates could well seize those BBs, cruisers and Destroyers and refit them with whatever means available.
=S=
-
Dragonlead
- Posts: 303
- Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 6:25 am
RE: Davis-Monthan AFB
Diab,
The base you are referring to is Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. It is home to what is officially called the Aircraft Maintenance And Regeneration Center (more commonly referred to as the Boneyard.)
The Boneyard does store older aircraft (most often used as a spare parts store to keep other aircraft flying.) The more modern aircraft are put into a "preserved" status because of cost. It is far cheaper to "mothball" excess jets than try to keep all of them flying at once.
One word of caution about pirates "hijacking" older ships. It is highly unlikely that these ships would be capable of mounting existing or first-line weaponry without EXTENSIVE modifications to old systems. As a result, they would be "easy meat" for any real warship. Picture one Broadsword eating an old BB for lunch.
A far more likely scenario would seem to be the idea of hijacking abandoned/under repair vessels and finishing the repairs at a secret location.
Just my 2 cents.
V/R
The base you are referring to is Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. It is home to what is officially called the Aircraft Maintenance And Regeneration Center (more commonly referred to as the Boneyard.)
The Boneyard does store older aircraft (most often used as a spare parts store to keep other aircraft flying.) The more modern aircraft are put into a "preserved" status because of cost. It is far cheaper to "mothball" excess jets than try to keep all of them flying at once.
One word of caution about pirates "hijacking" older ships. It is highly unlikely that these ships would be capable of mounting existing or first-line weaponry without EXTENSIVE modifications to old systems. As a result, they would be "easy meat" for any real warship. Picture one Broadsword eating an old BB for lunch.
A far more likely scenario would seem to be the idea of hijacking abandoned/under repair vessels and finishing the repairs at a secret location.
Just my 2 cents.
V/R
USAF Ret.