MWiF Map Review - Pacific Islands

[composer99]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: composer99

As long as they're close enough for strat bombers & (maybe) escorting fighters.

At 12 hexes away, only a few of the USA fighters can reach Tokyo from the Bonins islands. Most of the USA bombers can but they would have to fly at extended range.

Hmm... It is true historically (as far as I have read) that the US did not have much in the way of escorting fighter power on its bombing raids over Japan, but in WiFFE it certainly does given the ranges Patrice quotes. Plus bombers can reach without necessarily flying at extended range. I quite like the changes on the whole but I suppose they may make it more difficult for the US to hammer away at Japan in the late game (if the Japanese are prepared) than perhaps should be the case. Ah, well, that is something that playtesting will ultimately determine.

[Froonp]

Here is a second pass I did at the Caroline Islands, this time with more maps, and with the big help of Google Earth. I did it because I was not 100% satisfied with the 1st pass (Post #17). I joined the Palau to the Caroline in this picture, they are so close.
I reviewed more particulary the western islands.

The modifications I would do are, from East to West :

- Delete the island hex S of Mokil / Pingelap.
- Move the Island that is W of Ponape 1 hex W (Orotuk).
- Add 1 island hex 3 hexes W of Truk (Pulusuk).
- Delete the 2 island hexes W of Pulap.
- Add 1 island hex NE of Satawal (Pikelot).
- Add 1 island hex NW of Satawal (West Fayu).
- Add 1 island hex W of Satawal (Elato & Lamotrek).
- Add 1 island hex NW of Olimarao (Gaferut).
- Delete the island hex SW of Ifalik.

With this map the global distances between islands within the Western Carolines Islands are much better respected (see Google Earth).
The global distances between islands within the Eastern Carolines Islands (Ponape) and the distance from them to Truk is not as good, the whole group of islands around Ponape is too near from Truk. Should me moved 1-2 hexes Eastwards. Moreover, this would be more accurate in regards to the position of the Ponape Island group to the Marshall to the north. Should I make a map showing the Ponape group Islands better placed ?

Also, I ask the question ;
Should the Yap Islands be part of the Caroline Islands Territory or the Palau Islands Territory ?
From real Geography it should be the later.
From WiF FE it should be the former.

I the earlier CwiF times, it was part of the Palau Islands, but I had Chris change it because it was part of the Caroline Islands in WiF FE.

Now I feel it would be better to respect real geography in this regards.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Patrice,
 
Yes to all your decisions.  Move the Eastern Carolines and make Yap islands part of Palau group.
 
While I want to stay faithful to WIFFE, the change in scale precludes that to a large degree in the number and placement of these small islands in the Pacific.  CWIF had several mistakes here which I have notes about from my own earlier examination (not as thorough as yours).
 
Therefore I am taking a long view.  5 years from now, when I look back on this decision, which choice will I be happier with?  That is the basis for my agreement with you on all of the islands floating about in the south Pacific.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Patrice,
Yes to all your decisions.  Move the Eastern Carolines and make Yap islands part of Palau group.

While I want to stay faithful to WIFFE, the change in scale precludes that to a large degree in the number and placement of these small islands in the Pacific.  CWIF had several mistakes here which I have notes about from my own earlier examination (not as thorough as yours).

Therefore I am taking a long view.  5 years from now, when I look back on this decision, which choice will I be happier with?  That is the basis for my agreement with you on all of the islands floating about in the south Pacific.

Well, indeed this is more complicated than I first said.
I saw that the placing of the Carolines was quite awkward in the whole Pacific region.
In fact, I took a lot of measurements (Tokyo - Guam, Tokyo - Manila, Tokyo - Irkursk, Tokyo - Honolulu, Honolulu - Guam, Honolulu - San Diego, Honolulu - Los Angeles, Honolulu - San Francisco, Honolulu - Kwajalein, Kwajalein - Truk, Truk - Guam, Truk - Rabaul, Truk - Palau, Palau - Davao, Palau - Yap, Truk - Yap), and it seems that Truk and the whole Carolines are placed too much Eastwards. That's why the eastern Carolines (Ponape) seems to be too close to Truk. The Marshall and the Marianas are at the right place.

- The Eastern Carolines shouls be shifted about 1 hex Eastward (Kosrea 1 hex SE, 1 hex E).
- Truk and the Western Carolines should be shifted 3 hexes Westwards (in reality, Truk is a little West from Rabaul, nearly on the same North/South line, in MWiF it is really east of Rabaul).
- The Western Carolines from Pulap to Ifalik should be shifted 2 hexes Westwards.
- The Yap Island group should be shifted 1 hex Westwards.

I can also only move the Eastern Carolines as I said (1 hex Eastwards) to make them farther away from Truk, but they won't be far enough.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Patrice,
Yes to all your decisions.  Move the Eastern Carolines and make Yap islands part of Palau group.

While I want to stay faithful to WIFFE, the change in scale precludes that to a large degree in the number and placement of these small islands in the Pacific.  CWIF had several mistakes here which I have notes about from my own earlier examination (not as thorough as yours).

Therefore I am taking a long view.  5 years from now, when I look back on this decision, which choice will I be happier with?  That is the basis for my agreement with you on all of the islands floating about in the south Pacific.

Well, indeed this is more complicated than I first said.
I saw that the placing of the Carolines was quite awkward in the whole Pacific region.
In fact, I took a lot of measurements (Tokyo - Guam, Tokyo - Manila, Tokyo - Irkursk, Tokyo - Honolulu, Honolulu - Guam, Honolulu - San Diego, Honolulu - Los Angeles, Honolulu - San Francisco, Honolulu - Kwajalein, Kwajalein - Truk, Truk - Guam, Truk - Rabaul, Truk - Palau, Palau - Davao, Palau - Yap, Truk - Yap), and it seems that Truk and the whole Carolines are placed too much Eastwards. That's why the eastern Carolines (Ponape) seems to be too close to Truk. The Marshall and the Marianas are at the right place.

- The Eastern Carolines shouls be shifted about 1 hex Eastward (Kosrea 1 hex SE, 1 hex E).
- Truk and the Western Carolines should be shifted 3 hexes Westwards (in reality, Truk is a little West from Rabaul, nearly on the same North/South line, in MWiF it is really east of Rabaul).
- The Western Carolines from Pulap to Ifalik should be shifted 2 hexes Westwards.
- The Yap Island group should be shifted 1 hex Westwards.

I can also only move the Eastern Carolines as I said (1 hex Eastwards) to make them farther away from Truk, but they won't be far enough.

What you need to be aware of here is the distortion due to the Mercator projection. Take some starting point (Tokyo seems appropriate) and measure distances from there using latitude and longitude. The farther you go from the equator, the more hexes will be required for a fixed distance. Using the major cities in Australia and New Zealand as secondary reference points would be a good idea too. Less important is the number of hexes to South America.

[Froonp]

Here's what the whole Palau + Carolines + Marshalls + Gilbert look like before any mods.

[Froonp]

Here is what it looks like with the mods I talked about.
It is more true to real Geography, and still true to WiF FE too (even if there ae less islands that MAR units could hop from one to the next).
The coastlines are only added to better understand the map.

[Froonp]

Here's how it looks like in WiF FE Pacific Scaled map.

[Froonp]

Here is how it looks from space (Google Earth).
Palikir is Ponape.
Truk is the yellow blob W of Ponape.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Ok.

The only suggested change I have to what you have done is moving the sea area boundary so it runs through Minto rather than east of it.

Edit: No, I take that back. But the sea area boundary should not run abreast of Orotuk. It should be clearly between Minto and Orotuk.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

And now I see that the same should be true for the Magur islands. My intent is for only Truk to be astride more than 1 sea area. Nama Lusap is ok, since that is true for WIFFE.

[Froonp]

Ok.

The only suggested change I have to what you have done is moving the sea area boundary so it runs through Minto rather than east of it.

Edit: No, I take that back. But the sea area boundary should not run abreast of Orotuk. It should be clearly between Minto and Orotuk.

And now I see that the same should be true for the Magur islands. My intent is for only Truk to be astride more than 1 sea area. Nama Lusap is ok, since that is true for WIFFE.

Here is what it looks like with those mods.
Also, I removed the Weather line around the Gilbert Islands, because WiF FE has them in the South Monsoon weather zone, as the Sea Area they are in.

[YohanTM2]

Great stuff Patrice.

[Froonp]

Here is how look the Coral Sea Area (Solomons, New Hebrides, New Caledonia, New Britain, New Ireland, Eastern Papua, Santa Cruz).

Here I made strictly no modifications, only drew the coastlines. I did not drew the Austraian Coastline, maybe later.
I think it is fine.

[Missouri_Rebel]

What are those red dashed lines on the map and what do they represent? Also, will the whole map have the coastlines on them? They look awesome.

Mo Reb


edit: dang fat fingers....

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel
What are those red dashed lines on the map and what do they represent? Also, will the whole map have the coastlines on them? They look awesome.
Mo Reb

The dashed red lines & curves show the boundaries between the territories formed by the Islands.
For example, there is the New Hebrides Territory, and the Santa Cruz Islands territory. I traced those red dashed lines to better see which islands are part of which Territory on the MWiF map. The MWiF maps tells you which Territory / Minor Country / Major Power an hex belong, but a JPG doesn't, so this was to see that.

Territory / Minor Country / Major Power are the 3 political entities that exist in WiF FE.

I believe the whole map will have coastlines on them.

[Zorachus99]

Am I seeing an invadable alpine hexside where Papua is described on the map?

I dont think I've ever seen an all-sea alpine hexside.

Does this mean only mtn units can invade from a amphib?

It's an interesting edge case for combat.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

Am I seeing an invadable alpine hexside where Papua is described on the map?
I dont think I've ever seen an all-sea alpine hexside.
Does this mean only mtn units can invade from a amphib?
It's an interesting edge case for combat.

It's just that I drew the Coastline too near from the Alpine hexside.
There is a Mountain hex SW of that Alpine hexside. This Alpine hexside is not on the coast.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Patrice,

Thank you for all the work you've done on this.[&o][&o][&o]

You have been adding in a lot of the names for individual islands, which I really like. I can add these to the MWIF data files easily enough. The format I would need them in is:

Labels for map: [cities, ports, governed areas]
ID, column, row, OfsX, OfsY, city position (0-24), port position (0-24), factory position (0-24), resource position (0-24), color, size, text of label

Don’t worry about the ID, I will assign consecutive numbers starting with the next available number. Also, you can use zeroes for most of the fields. What I need is the name itself (last data field) and the hex row and column numbers where the name/label should start. Note that the label’s starting hex is only occasionally the same as the island hex itself.

An example would be:
0,ccc,rrr,0,0,0,0,0,0,clBlack,9,name

There are no blanks allowed and obviously ccc, and rrr are the column and row numbers (leading zeroes not required). I am assuming a font size number of 9 (which gets modified according to zoom level) but will probably try different ones out to see how they look.

Steve

[Froonp]

There are no blanks allowed and obviously ccc, and rrr are the column and row numbers (leading zeroes not required). I am assuming a font size number of 9 (which gets modified according to zoom level) but will probably try different ones out to see how they look.

Great you like those islands names. They add a lot to the WWII feel, as lots of those islands sound familliar to people who know WWII. Often those names were not on the WiF FE maps because the scale precluded drawing too many islands. Makin, Chichishima, Tinian, Wotje, Vella Lavella (Baa Baa Baaaaaa [:D]), Espiritu Santo, Bougainville...

Also what are OfsX, OfsY ?
Have you got a schema of the 0-24 positions within an hex ? I could try to pre-position some names.
About the positions, I'll take the positions I showed in my posted bitmaps.

Edit : While I'm at it, I'll include the Chinese names from the China map too, and those of Caucasus, and those of Urals.