Japanese Strategy guide

[SoulBlazer]

Okay, that's close to what I had decided, but always nice to get some feedback. He may just decide to pull out of PM and say it's not worth it. I know as the Allies I've gotten this close sometimes after having the base pasted from the air, major planes shot down, and bomardment forces coming in. Thanks.

[Inigo Montoya]

Cool. Thanks for the help Cap and Soulblazer!

[Admiral DadMan]

Originally posted by cap_and_gown
... Also, if possible, open up the range between your carriers and his to take advantage of the greater range of Jap planes. Ideally, the Japs should fight a carrier battle at a range of 8 hexes...

As the Japanese, Vals and Kates have a Normal Attack Range (NAR) of 7 (210 miles) and Extended Attack Range (EAR) of 10 (300 miles). If you're gonna fight at range 8 (240 miles), you're already in the Extended Range, so you would be better off to fight at range 10.

There are three benefits to that strategy:

1. At range 10, IJN CV's stay out of strike range of USN SBD's (EAR 9).
2. TF don't react so that USN can bring TBD's to bear. (Reaction moves occur at 4-7 hexes for USN, 5-9 hexes for IJN.)
3. IJN Fighter Escorts are within their Normal Range, and are quite effective.
   [/list=1]
   
   On the minus side of the ledger, you get smaller strikes, more groups missing targets, and smaller payloads (Kates without torpedoes might seem like a waste of time, but the IJN was pretty good at level bombing ships with Kates a la Pearl Harbor...)

[Grotius]

<< You have to position yourself to fight the carrier battle on advantageous terms. That means moving out of range of his land based air. >>

Just so I'm sure I understand: am I "out of range" of US/Australian LBA if I'm out of range of their fighter escorts? Or do I also need to be out of range of B-17s and the like? If I put up some CAP over my CV TF, that's enough to deter unescorted bombers?

[DoomedMantis]

Originally posted by Grotius
<< You have to position yourself to fight the carrier battle on advantageous terms. That means moving out of range of his land based air. >>

Just so I'm sure I understand: am I "out of range" of US/Australian LBA if I'm out of range of their fighter escorts? Or do I also need to be out of range of B-17s and the like? If I put up some CAP over my CV TF, that's enough to deter unescorted bombers?

thats correct. If you are outside of escort range, then LB Bombers will very rarely attack your CV's if you have CAP present, although they can sometimes piggyback on the escorts from carriers this is very rare and take some really good coordination, something unlikely to happen untill you get some Air HQ's

[CapAndGown]

Actually, I meant getting the h#ll away from PM and Australia. No way I want his level bombers taking a wack at me while there are also carriers in the vicinity. But this doesn't mean getting out of the range, necessarily. Just get far enough away that they are unlikely to attack because it is hard to find a moving TF. This range is about 12 hexes. Just to be safe, try to get about 14 or 15 hexes away from his bomber bases and you should be safe. Trying to get out of range of the B-17 is pointless; you would have to fight the battle at the door step of Truk!

[Inigo Montoya]

Thanks for that tip, Cap_and_Gown!

8 )

[Grotius]

<< Just to be safe, try to get about 14 or 15 hexes away from his bomber bases and you should be safe. >>

Ah, that's very helpful; thanks.

<< Trying to get out of range of the B-17 is pointless; you would have to fight the battle at the door step of Truk! >>

Yep!

[Bax]

Very interesting discussion, gents!

I would like to open up the floor for discussion on whether or not the Japanese should ignore PM and instead try to take Luganville and Efate early on in scenario 17.

In my PBEM game with Toro, he is Allied and I am Japan. I very nearly captured both Luganville and Efate in the same turn. While he was over protecting Gili-Gili and PM with his CV's, I had assembled multiple fleets and had sailed undetected to within a day's sailing of Lunganville and Efate. Both landing fleets sailed together and were escorted by surface TF's and my CV TF.

I captured Efate with a SNLF unit on day one, which was undefended except for the poor engineers that were stationed there. I captured about 5,000 supply points and fuel, enough to replenish the Shokaku and Zuikaku. Efate was also a size 3 airfield, so had I been smart enough to send the base force I took with me to Efate instead of Luganville, I would have been able to transfer some air assets to there to help out. AS it was, I screwed up and send the base force to land at Luganville. What a rookie mistake!

Unfortunately for me, and fortunately for Toro, he had sailed one RCT of the Americal Division up to Luganville. I had the 144th Reg and another SNLF unit as the attacking units. I knew I was probably not going to get Luganville afterall, and decided it was not worth it to try to keep fighting for it by bringing more troops in from Shortland or Rabaul.

So, my grandiose plans for a blitzkrieg style takeover of those islands failed in the end, but it did have some positive effect. My landings at those islands got his attention away from PM pretty quickly, and his previous desire to avoid the obligatory battle of the Coral Sea evaporated. He came on with both CV's blazing, and I was fortunate to send both American CV's to the bottom without loss.

After this carrier battle, both sides withdrew to re-group. For the entire operation, I had lost approximately 5 APs, one CL and a couple of DD's. I also lost the 144th Regiment and the SNLF unit and base force on Luganville eventually, and I also eventually lost Efate when he performed a counter-offensive.

I know Mogami and others will tell me how stupid I was to even bother with those islands, but let's talk about what would have happened had that RCT from the Americal Div not been there on Luganville when I arrived. I would have captured both island bases, without loss (the majority of the ships lost were due to the extended fighting in the area when I didn't initially capture Luganville).

Had I captured both bases, while sending both his initial CV's to the bottom, would I not have been in a good position to seriously delay his inevitable march up to Lunga? Not to mention he would always have to watch his back, so to speak, when he was tempted to send anything up to re-inforce PM.

With a quick build up of Efate to a size 4 airfield, would I not have been able to establish sufficient air power to discourage excessive SS activity in the area(not to mention surface naval activity).

Of course, keeping those bases supplied is the major nightmare. but with superior surface and CV unit numbers, would it have been all that difficult to sustain enough supply? One would think it enviable to get the US to try to fight the IJN surface fleets early in the game, when the IJN has all the night fighting expertise.

Because I failed, the point is moot for me now. But I would like to hear of some pro's and con's for doing what I did, and why. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who managed to capture both bases in a PBEM game, and what happened afterward.

[bilbow]

Interesting approach, Bax. I tried a similar strategy in one PBEM game and successfully captured both bases. My assault came a bit later (mid June), when I had available a greater ground force to commit. Fortunatly, he had not garrisoned either, but my ground forces would have been sufficient to overwhelm any reasonable 1-2 regiment force present. His carriers were neutralized not by sinking but because he transferred the air groups to Luganville for defense, then got them trapped when the base closed down and subsequently fell. Immediately afterwards the Americal division invades from Noumea, but dies on the beach since I hade most of 2 divisions defending. Sounds good, right?

Well maybe. The problem is that both bases are within easy bomber range of Noumea from witch they could be continuously pounded. Also, these locations are far from Japanese supply making supporting naval forces there dificult, resulting is Allied suface bombardment groups visiting frequently. By the fall of 42, Allied airpower has built up to make long-term defense untenable. We did not play all the way to Jan 43 (we re-started when 2.0 appeared), but I'm pretty sure he would have been able to retake Luganville well before the auto victory condition kicked in. I had already started to withdraw major portions of my ground and air forces since it was becoming more and more difficult to supply them and keep the airbase open.

This strategy did force the Allied player into a major delay of his Solomons campaign, which in the end is it's main benefit. In the long-term any units based at Luganville would be lost. My offensive became in effect a delaying action instead of the decisive stroke I was hoping for.

[Bax]

Hey billbow,

I guess that's the real question I'm asking. Is the delay caused by the capture of Luganville and Efate worth the effort and risk?

How much delay is enough to make a difference to the long-term survival of Lunga for the Japanese?

hmmm.....

[CapAndGown]

Both of you gents might wish to read my AAR. The first installment discusses my own effort to capture Luganville/Efate and my reasoning behind that effort.

showthread.php?s=&threadid=28804

[mogami]

Originally posted by Bax
Hey billbow,

I guess that's the real question I'm asking. Is the delay caused by the capture of Luganville and Efate worth the effort and risk?

How much delay is enough to make a difference to the long-term survival of Lunga for the Japanese?

hmmm.....

Hi, Building Irau (San Cristobal Island) to at least a size 4 airfield size 3 port will protect Lunga more then going to L'ville/Efate early
(without the supporting bases)
Going there with the intention of remaining (attempting auto victory) will cause the allies problems (and loss of sleep)
But at the same time it provides a target for him. The allies have no place to hurt the Japanese until they build bases within range.
The B-17's are not reliable from L'ville (distance and weather)
But they are much more effective bombing L'ville/Efate from Noumea. Minelayers take 3-4 days to mine L'ville and return (2-3 for Efate) The allies have aircraft that can reach past L'ville and attack transports. (L'ville can not provide CAP over TF's since it is going to be under constant attack.) L'ville's port can not provide refuge for damaged ships for the same reason.

If you are going to invade L'ville early, make sure to send engineer units to Irau and one of the bases north of L'ville between there and Irau. Build at least size 1 airfield (LRCAP for transports) size 4 is better (to provide bombers to discourge allied TF) and a size 3 port (a close, safe base to send ships damaged further south)

If the Japanese try to hold L'ville/Efate and fail and in the process suffer material loss they are in fact speeding up allied offensive operations (since the allies would have had no place to hurt the Japanese they would have been granted a headstart.
If the Japanese go to L'ville/Efate early with the intention of doing as much damage while building their rear bases. And are gone before the allies can hurt them, I think it is a sound idea.
The Japanese if the telegraph their intention of going for auto victory must face the fact the allies will have 5-6 divisions before Nov 42. The Japanese troops will have been sitting for 4-5 months under attack and all their rear bases will be empty (the Japanese have to place at least 3-4 divsions worth of troops on base they want auto victory from)

The Japanese should not make a comitment to L'ville/Efate without first defeating the USN CV that arrive prior to Aug (depending on comitment levels and arrival dates as many as 6 USN CV could be on map)
Also this effort largely conceeds Port Moresby to the allies.
Long before Jan 43 it will have made an impact favouring the allies. (Port Moresby requires at least 3 divisons be on hand-they may not all be needed but once the Japanese start landing troops if they fail to bring enough the allie will reinforce and the operation takes a toll on Japanese transports. (as does the L'ville/Efate operation.)

[DoomedMantis]

Irau is one of the keys, because you can also have recon plnes fly out of here and reach Lunganville. Its certainly nice to know what you will actually be fighting

[denisonh]

It seems to me that having a plan with concrete short range objectives framed by on overall goal is key, but taking advantage of early success, or compensating for an early reversal, seem to be critical.

The outcome on the early CV battle sets the tone for the rest of May 42 into June. Because of the short time line for the Japanese offensive against PM, the goal of the early CV battle is to neutralize the enemy capability. If this is not completed, then the timeline for taking PM must be adjusted. Maybe even cancelled. (an enemy carrier that the IJN cannot eliminate hanging around south of GG makes things troublesome)

If the battle is decisive (USN carriers eliminated with IJN CV capability retained), then maybe pushing ahead with the timetable to take advantage of the victory.

In either case, a reserve of ships, land forces and aircraft can provide a way to plug holes from a defeat or reinforce success. Mogami talks to these points, but I think that having some kind of reserve with some basic contingencies are keys to adding flexibility to adjust to "tactical or startegic opportunities". (Like committing a fresh bomber squadron(s) to Naval Attack after a decisive naval battle fought within LBA range to pick off cripples )

[dpstafford]

My question is this: Do the Japanese have any hope of winning any of the long scenarios (including #19) if the game goes the distance? Can they win on points? Or if they win will it always be by meeting the requirements of the AUTO-VICTORY.

[Chiteng]

Yes they can win, but they need to kill the pre-war american CV.
If the USN is able to put SIX CV in one hex, there is little or nothing, barring a lucky sub hit, that the Jap can do.

You must agressively seek to engage OR force the commitment
of the american CV.

[m0ngoose]

Hi, all!

Mogami I have a question for you. How do you put your TFs together? What do you like in terms of composition? From this thread it sounds like you have a plethora of TFs running about at any one time (rotating troops, barge chains, strike TFs, etc.)

I've been running my transport TFs at the full 25 (sometimes with escorts and sometimes not) but have been doing 10-15 ship TFs for my bombardment, surface combat, and air combat TFs.

It's been a real treat reading this thread. I have a lot to think about (in my AI games as well as PBEM).

Thanks to all of you fellows who contributed here.

Eric

[Grotius]

Hi m0ngoose,

I'm also curious about how people compose their TFs. Cap & Gown recommends rotating Bombardment TFs when invading a major base. How many ships per Bombardment TF, Cap? At the start of Scenario 17, the IJN hardly has enough ships for one such TF, much less three.

Likewise, how big do people like their Air Combat TFs? You want to protect the CVs with DDs and surface combat ships, of course, but you also don't want the TF to be too large. Larger TFs are easier to detect, among other things.

For what it's worth, m0ngoose, I generally keep my TFs to a max of 15 ships or so, and usually less. My Transport TFs tend to be quite small, to make them harder to detect. I don't think I've ever made a 25-ship TF, even with barges.

[mogami]

Hi,
Aircombat TF (IJN)
I assign the CV/L according to speed. I use certain historical pairings for the CV if possible
Hiryu and Soryu, Shokaku and Zuikaku, Kaga and Akagi, Junyo and Hiyo.

So the CVL tend to be assigned with Junyo and Hiyo or form their own TF.

Nagumo commands Kaga and Akagi, Yamaguchi commands Hiryu and Soryu,

so standard IJN Aircombat TF
2xCV
2xCA (Tone class because of 5 float planes)
2xDD for each CV/CA=8 DD
CL destroyer leader for each 4 DD=2 CL

2Cv, 2CA, 2CL, 8 DD=standard IJN Aircombat TF

Bombardment/Surface combat TF

2xBB (BB's also work in pairs)
Kongo, Hiei and Kirishima, Haruna
Mutsu, Nagato

2 CA per BB assigned

2 DD per BB/CA

2xBB
4xCA
12xDD
3xCL

If there are not enough BB's to make 2 such groups then I split the group in half. I like to hit a target often rather then hard but sheldom.

1xBB
2xCA
6xDD
2XCL (extra CL because DD's are now groups of 3)