Greetings, I am going to attempt to compose a complete guide for both sides. I am only dealing with the long campaigns that begin on 1 May 42 and end on 1 Jan 44. I am not attempting to produce sets of operational orders but rather a general outline of things that must be considered. I will edit this post as I go. Please reserve comments or questions for later as I am writing this in between turns from PBEM games. This piece is strictly my opinion. Of course what is true for the Japanese player should be true in reverse for the Allied player. (and in must cases apply equally) The future Allied guide will be mainly concerned with how to counter or exploit details of the Japanese position. I am aiming my post at players with a similair style or conception to my own. I do not attempt things I consider outside or beyond the Japanese total war picture. I try to conserve assets for future use in areas outside the scope of Uncommon Valor and to have them available past the time frames
covered here.
Japanese Strategy in long campaigns.
The goal of the Japanese player in long campaigns should be view as a part of the whole war picture and not just towards victory conditions in Uncommon Valor. This will prevent the player from adopting unrealistic goals and maintaining a broader Operational outlook. Game settings should be historical with variable reinforcement set to 100 percent. In this way the game adopts the part of larger picture concept and avoids becoming a choreographed repetition of previous games.
Several ideas remain constant. Although the means of their accomplishment might change from game to game due to differing arrival dates of major ships.
Main long term objectives must be decided on prior to commencement of play.
How far does the Japanese player intend to go. Is he going to seek an Auto victory or force the Allied player to resign from hopelessness or simply last the entire 610 turns and finish ahead in points.
One ever present item for thought is the status of Port Moresby. If the Japanese player wishes to maintain New Guinea he must secure possession of this base.
If he wishes to expand into the Solomon's area and beyond he must be aware that Port Moresby will be a constant danger to his supply lines. Because of the disparity of force existing in the early months of scenarios 17 and 19 Japan should consider using this period for operations directed at the capture of Port Moresby.
Logistics are the single most important factor impacting the player. Everything requires the consumption of material in the form of supply or fuel points that must be transported from Truk to the bases in the operational area. The Port Moresby operation consumes around 100k of both supply and fuel. In addition to supply and fuel the combat elements that perform the actual capture have to be lifted.
Also the nature of the environment in the South Pacific/New Guinea causes units to suffer adversely the longer they are present. So you must plan for replacement and rotation of units. Specifically the ground units of all types. This requires the player to view available forces and future arrivals when planning.
Regarding planning, I should perhaps define several differing attitudes. Is would be of advantage during the course of the game to define both yourself and your opponent.
1. The "Easter Egg" hunter. This type of planning is where the player conducts operations "by the seat of their pants" each turn they view the forces at hand and assign missions by proximity to enemy or opportunity, Not bothering with future considerations. These games tend to be rather bloody as forces are committed upon arrival and used until depleted. The "Easter Egg" hunter reacts to enemy action rather then directing the course of events.
They attempt to deny their opponents objectives rather then define their own.
2. The "Porcupine" This type player refuses contact without over whelming mass.
Operations are very slow to develop and while underway can produce prolonged periods of intense activity followed by long periods of consolidation. This type player is very dangerous if allowed a free hand. However the tempo of operations allows you to meet the enemy with favourable terms. Proper recon and distribution of forces (pre-emptive actions) can keep a "Porcupine" so worried they never do anything. (Just avoid their dens)
3. The "Mastermind" develops very complex plans. Often multi tasking units during operations. Very deep operational goals. The main problem with "Masterminds" is the tendency to become derailed by events if their actions do not produce the planned result. Flexibility is not the trade mark of the "Master Mind"
The over tasking of forces results in weakness at some point
(units can only be/do one place/thing at a time. Stretch the resources of a "Mastermind" by launching Operations directed at
what ever point he weakens during his operations.
4. The "Dreamer" actually does nothing. Planning consists of waiting for "The right moment" when suddenly in one bold counter stroke they will reverse the course of events and achieve victory. Up to that moment their forces mill about. Sometimes large movement of units and combat for objectives of limited use. Sometimes failure to provide for defense/capture of critical bases.
Be a solid player when faced by "dreamers" just go one step at a time and don't provide the chance for "the desisive battle"
5. The "Grognard" UV is not a game. Will attempt to out perform historical combatants while staying within the realm of what might have been and within National characteristics and doctrine..
Has an end objective in mind on 1 May 42 Will adjust operations to suit conditions and to facilitate future operations.
Keeps track of units. Has plans for replacing/resting.
The Grognard does not consider any unit as expendable. The Grognard as Japan wishes to maintain the initiative the Japanese possessed on May 1st 42. As Allies he is looking for an opening to stop Japanese expansion and begin offensive actions. Grognards dispise the term "micro manager" or "leaving details to staff" The Grognard knows Operational Commanders are only as good as their staff so Grognards become the staff not the Commander.
Japanese Strategy guide
Japanese Strategy guide
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Steps to Japanese victory in UV
1 Win Coral Sea CV battle.
2 Invade and capture Port Moresby before American CV reinforcements arrive.
3. Take Lunga and station enough planes there to sink any non-CV force that comes your way.
4. Mine everything in sight to protect from bombardment groups.
5 Lay low until December 42.
6 Invade a base that will give you automatic victory on January 1st 43.
Yamamoto
1 Win Coral Sea CV battle.
2 Invade and capture Port Moresby before American CV reinforcements arrive.
3. Take Lunga and station enough planes there to sink any non-CV force that comes your way.
4. Mine everything in sight to protect from bombardment groups.
5 Lay low until December 42.
6 Invade a base that will give you automatic victory on January 1st 43.
Yamamoto
What type of player are you?
This whole guide is gonna be great, but the one part I really loved was your analasys of the type of players out there. It really got me to thinking about how I would class myself.
Well I think Im a combination of 3 maybe, Porcupine/Grognard/Dreamer ,most of the emphasis on Porcupine. I think Porcupine and Dreamer can go hand in hand sometimes and hence I owned up to the Dreamer part:-)
Reasons ,well I will only do battle on my terms (hopefully) ,I will react to situations if forced but generally I like superiority in numbers or better equipment. This also means I like to consolidate what I have ,but in so doing can lead to the Dreamer part as your opponent may be doing the same , so in fact you can be planning for something that may not happen.
I also classed Grognard down, strictly speaking Im not really, but by Mogami's philosophy I am, insomuch every asset I have I try to take care of.
Anyway I think it would be interesting to find out what other player's think they are, and thier reasons for it?
Well I think Im a combination of 3 maybe, Porcupine/Grognard/Dreamer ,most of the emphasis on Porcupine. I think Porcupine and Dreamer can go hand in hand sometimes and hence I owned up to the Dreamer part:-)
Reasons ,well I will only do battle on my terms (hopefully) ,I will react to situations if forced but generally I like superiority in numbers or better equipment. This also means I like to consolidate what I have ,but in so doing can lead to the Dreamer part as your opponent may be doing the same , so in fact you can be planning for something that may not happen.
I also classed Grognard down, strictly speaking Im not really, but by Mogami's philosophy I am, insomuch every asset I have I try to take care of.
Anyway I think it would be interesting to find out what other player's think they are, and thier reasons for it?
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CapAndGown
- Posts: 3078
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: Virginia, USA
Part II
Greetings, Actually I tend to ramble based on the amount of adult beverage I consume. Since my present situation provides almost unlimited adult beverages I fear where I might end up. I myself possess traits of all the above styles. I begin campaigns with long range goals but tend to lose my way. After carefully planning and movement of troops and staging of units I become plagued with doubt. Then after the belated commencement of operations I fiddle with the components disrupting co-ordination. After nearly bankrupting the plan I spend a few hours finding means to fix the damage or salvage something. When the smoke clears I pretend the whole operation went like clock work.
There is no single base in UV that can be used to insure victory. (I am ignoring auto victory for the moment) If the allies pile all their resources into one small area simply avoid it and take those parts that will enhance your position. (As the allies if the Japanese pour everything into Lunga ignore that base and capture everything you can outside it's area of influence.
This brings us to the central theme of operational planning in UV (and I am surmising WITP) The inter dependency of unit types.
Air units are the main units for inflicting damage to the enemy.
Air units require land bases to operate from. Air units are vulnerable to naval units at night and destruction if the base they occupy is captured by enemy ground units.
Naval units are needed to deny enemy movement between bases.
Ground units provide support for airgroups and possession of bases.
Although airgroups are the most dangerous units their inability to operate in all weather and during all hours makes them the most unreliable.
Ground units lack the mobility and cannot generally be used to combat Air and/or Naval units.
Therefore the single most important (as regards planning) units are the naval assets under a players control. Every offensive plan calls for fleet units to pave the way, transport, and protect friendly air and ground units to a point contested by the enemy.
The planning of operations in UV has several distinct phases. My definition of an operation is a series of missions resulting in the attainment of an objective. Objectives are of several types. Short term, Long term, Conditional, and Special.
Short term objectives are those that must be accomplished to allow further development of the long range plan. (supply bases must be built, airfields placed where needed)
Long term objective generally involve taking possession of bases currently under enemy control to allow further growth of sphere of influence.
Conditional objectives are those that rely on the enemy reacting as expected, or success of other missions.
Special objectives are those that arise from conditions that cannot be predicted and exist for limited times.
First an objective must be defined.
Second the units needed to conduct the missions must be decided on and then the units made ready
Third the logistics required need to be transported and staged where they can be used by the units performing the missions.
Fourth. The conditions required for commencement of missions must be met.
All operations therefore consist of phases.
"Steps to Japanese victory in UV
1 Win Coral Sea CV battle.
2 Invade and capture Port Moresby before American CV reinforcements arrive.
3. Take Lunga and station enough planes there to sink any non-CV force that comes your way.
4. Mine everything in sight to protect from bombardment groups.
5 Lay low until December 42.
6 Invade a base that will give you automatic victory on January 1st 43.
Yamamoto"
Using the abridged version of how to win as Japanese as a guide I will try to define the type of objectives listed
Steps to Japanese victory in UV (against AI-in PBEM game it is too vague (there is going to have to be some fancy dancing to achive the goals but we'll put off planning them for now) in concept. Has no defined objectives beyond what can be done prior to Aug 42 and assumes Allies will cooperate)
1 Win Coral Sea CV battle.-special/conditional since there exists a limited time before allies receive further CV assets and the allied player must oblige us by committing when and where the Japanese desire
2 Invade and capture Port Moresby before American CV reinforcements arrive.-Long term, effects future operations and requires completion of short term objectives. Also it predicts time of allied CV reinforcement. With Variable setting the Japanese may in fact find themselves outnumbered. (I once had a PBEM game where Japan NEVER sent any further CV till late 42)
3. Take Lunga and station enough planes there to sink any non-CV force that comes your way.-Assumes enemy will direct his actions here. In daylight and in good weather.
4. Mine everything in sight to protect from bombardment groups.-???? Mine everything???? Friendly TF's are effected by mines as well as enemy. Better to place alot of mines in a few hexes then mine alot of hexes.
5 Lay low until December 42.-not sure how this is accomplished.
6 Invade a base that will give you automatic victory on January 1st 43.-I cannot recommend waiting till late 42 before trying for a auto victory base. I advise against beginning game with auto victory as ultimate objective If while laying low you fail to destroy the enemy fleet, this might be impossible and then you are left with a further 365 days to fight..
Yamamoto
OK this is good advise in general but could you conduct a campaign based on it?
Objective Capture of Port Moresby (or any enemy held base)
Phase one. Secure sea lane from Embarkation port to Port Moresby.
This includes removal of threat from enemy air, surface, mine, and carrier borne air.
Missions during phase one will include locating enemy carrier/surface units. Location/clearing of enemy mines, Shutting down enemy airfields in and around target, providing air search, refueling, repair, emergency landing fields. preventing supply reinforcment of target, and others as needed.
Task force types to be employed during operation will consist of
Carrier-to remove enemy carrier and provide cover for transport groups
Bombardment-to close enemy airfields and effect enemy supply/ground units
Transport-to move men and material
Replenshment-to allow carrier/surface groups to remain on station
Minewarfare-to remove enemy mines and place own mines on enemy routes to target
Surface Combat-to protect Transports and engage and remove enemy surface threat to transports.
Submarine-to scout, mine, inderdict enemy movement to target
The nuts and bolts of the operational planning will be deciding the what/where/whens
Time frame for Port Moresby Operations
Commencing on 1 May 42 and concluding with capture of target
Missions needed to accomplish conditions for movement of troops to target
1 Prevention of resupply and reinforcment of Port Moresby. (CV/sub/LBA)
2. Airfields closed (bombardment/LBA)
3. mine removal (mine warfare-sweep)
(more later with many insert/delete edits)
There is no single base in UV that can be used to insure victory. (I am ignoring auto victory for the moment) If the allies pile all their resources into one small area simply avoid it and take those parts that will enhance your position. (As the allies if the Japanese pour everything into Lunga ignore that base and capture everything you can outside it's area of influence.
This brings us to the central theme of operational planning in UV (and I am surmising WITP) The inter dependency of unit types.
Air units are the main units for inflicting damage to the enemy.
Air units require land bases to operate from. Air units are vulnerable to naval units at night and destruction if the base they occupy is captured by enemy ground units.
Naval units are needed to deny enemy movement between bases.
Ground units provide support for airgroups and possession of bases.
Although airgroups are the most dangerous units their inability to operate in all weather and during all hours makes them the most unreliable.
Ground units lack the mobility and cannot generally be used to combat Air and/or Naval units.
Therefore the single most important (as regards planning) units are the naval assets under a players control. Every offensive plan calls for fleet units to pave the way, transport, and protect friendly air and ground units to a point contested by the enemy.
The planning of operations in UV has several distinct phases. My definition of an operation is a series of missions resulting in the attainment of an objective. Objectives are of several types. Short term, Long term, Conditional, and Special.
Short term objectives are those that must be accomplished to allow further development of the long range plan. (supply bases must be built, airfields placed where needed)
Long term objective generally involve taking possession of bases currently under enemy control to allow further growth of sphere of influence.
Conditional objectives are those that rely on the enemy reacting as expected, or success of other missions.
Special objectives are those that arise from conditions that cannot be predicted and exist for limited times.
First an objective must be defined.
Second the units needed to conduct the missions must be decided on and then the units made ready
Third the logistics required need to be transported and staged where they can be used by the units performing the missions.
Fourth. The conditions required for commencement of missions must be met.
All operations therefore consist of phases.
"Steps to Japanese victory in UV
1 Win Coral Sea CV battle.
2 Invade and capture Port Moresby before American CV reinforcements arrive.
3. Take Lunga and station enough planes there to sink any non-CV force that comes your way.
4. Mine everything in sight to protect from bombardment groups.
5 Lay low until December 42.
6 Invade a base that will give you automatic victory on January 1st 43.
Yamamoto"
Using the abridged version of how to win as Japanese as a guide I will try to define the type of objectives listed
Steps to Japanese victory in UV (against AI-in PBEM game it is too vague (there is going to have to be some fancy dancing to achive the goals but we'll put off planning them for now) in concept. Has no defined objectives beyond what can be done prior to Aug 42 and assumes Allies will cooperate)
1 Win Coral Sea CV battle.-special/conditional since there exists a limited time before allies receive further CV assets and the allied player must oblige us by committing when and where the Japanese desire
2 Invade and capture Port Moresby before American CV reinforcements arrive.-Long term, effects future operations and requires completion of short term objectives. Also it predicts time of allied CV reinforcement. With Variable setting the Japanese may in fact find themselves outnumbered. (I once had a PBEM game where Japan NEVER sent any further CV till late 42)
3. Take Lunga and station enough planes there to sink any non-CV force that comes your way.-Assumes enemy will direct his actions here. In daylight and in good weather.
4. Mine everything in sight to protect from bombardment groups.-???? Mine everything???? Friendly TF's are effected by mines as well as enemy. Better to place alot of mines in a few hexes then mine alot of hexes.
5 Lay low until December 42.-not sure how this is accomplished.
6 Invade a base that will give you automatic victory on January 1st 43.-I cannot recommend waiting till late 42 before trying for a auto victory base. I advise against beginning game with auto victory as ultimate objective If while laying low you fail to destroy the enemy fleet, this might be impossible and then you are left with a further 365 days to fight..
Yamamoto
OK this is good advise in general but could you conduct a campaign based on it?
Objective Capture of Port Moresby (or any enemy held base)
Phase one. Secure sea lane from Embarkation port to Port Moresby.
This includes removal of threat from enemy air, surface, mine, and carrier borne air.
Missions during phase one will include locating enemy carrier/surface units. Location/clearing of enemy mines, Shutting down enemy airfields in and around target, providing air search, refueling, repair, emergency landing fields. preventing supply reinforcment of target, and others as needed.
Task force types to be employed during operation will consist of
Carrier-to remove enemy carrier and provide cover for transport groups
Bombardment-to close enemy airfields and effect enemy supply/ground units
Transport-to move men and material
Replenshment-to allow carrier/surface groups to remain on station
Minewarfare-to remove enemy mines and place own mines on enemy routes to target
Surface Combat-to protect Transports and engage and remove enemy surface threat to transports.
Submarine-to scout, mine, inderdict enemy movement to target
The nuts and bolts of the operational planning will be deciding the what/where/whens
Time frame for Port Moresby Operations
Commencing on 1 May 42 and concluding with capture of target
Missions needed to accomplish conditions for movement of troops to target
1 Prevention of resupply and reinforcment of Port Moresby. (CV/sub/LBA)
2. Airfields closed (bombardment/LBA)
3. mine removal (mine warfare-sweep)
(more later with many insert/delete edits)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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SoulBlazer
- Posts: 766
- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 5:28 am
- Location: Providence RI
Good guide, please keep up the good work.
In my one PBEM game right now where I am Japan, it's about two weeks into the game and my inital force of cruisers and destroyers has returned to Rabul from covering landings on Giri Giri and joined up with the rest of the destroyers from Truk. I don't have any CV's planned to come down, but three battleships as well as a number of cruisers and destroyers are on their way. I suspect by the time they come and I can organize a huge fleet, the Americans will have carriers, and perhaps battleships of their own. By then, all of New Guinea save for Port Moresby should be in my hands.
I'm planning to send the main fleet -- the BB's, all my Cruisers, and any destroyers that will fit -- to go bombard PM while a transport fleet slips in behind them. There should be enough flak from the main fleet that they can beat down any air attack thrown at them. I'll also send a smaller fleet down to the southern Solomons, to try to 'bait' the American fleet away. It's risky without any CV's to cover my fleet, but I think it can work.
In another game, where I'm the Americans, no BB's are due but the Saratoga should be coming in a week. I'm going to just attach her to my invasion fleet for Guadalcanal and hope one carrier is enough to fly CAP.
In my one PBEM game right now where I am Japan, it's about two weeks into the game and my inital force of cruisers and destroyers has returned to Rabul from covering landings on Giri Giri and joined up with the rest of the destroyers from Truk. I don't have any CV's planned to come down, but three battleships as well as a number of cruisers and destroyers are on their way. I suspect by the time they come and I can organize a huge fleet, the Americans will have carriers, and perhaps battleships of their own. By then, all of New Guinea save for Port Moresby should be in my hands.
I'm planning to send the main fleet -- the BB's, all my Cruisers, and any destroyers that will fit -- to go bombard PM while a transport fleet slips in behind them. There should be enough flak from the main fleet that they can beat down any air attack thrown at them. I'll also send a smaller fleet down to the southern Solomons, to try to 'bait' the American fleet away. It's risky without any CV's to cover my fleet, but I think it can work.
In another game, where I'm the Americans, no BB's are due but the Saratoga should be coming in a week. I'm going to just attach her to my invasion fleet for Guadalcanal and hope one carrier is enough to fly CAP.
The US Navy could probaly win a war without coffee, but would prefer not to try -- Samuel Morison
continued
Greetings,
May 1 1942, Japan has sveral bases of importance. Rabaul of course is the main base below Truk. Most of the airgroups will base here in opening months. Supply and fuel will be stockpiled here. I like to use the 3k AP for transport TF to and from Truk. This keeps them as safe as possible. The 2k AP run supply from Truk to Rabaul and then some of them homeport at Rabaul and move troops and supply to the next level bases. Shortland and Lae. Lae however only gets AP convoy if the airfield at Port Moresby is quiet (so run a convoy here early) the 1k AP are used for the more exposed bases. Fast Transport using CL/DD are the safest means but this will wear out the ships. Prior to attampting invasion of Port Moresby it is a good idea to have Gili Gili (capture with Nav Gar unit on Fast Transport-then move a baseforce and engineer. build port to level 3 and airfield to level 2. Then if ships are damaged you have a port they can run into for repair. If possible also put some fuel here to refuel Bombardment TF's. Capture Buna with a Nav Gar on fast Transport to cut retreat route and just prior to landing on PM also drop a Nav Gar on hex just north of there. Now PM garrision has no place to retreat to. (thanks Dan)
to be continued....
May 1 1942, Japan has sveral bases of importance. Rabaul of course is the main base below Truk. Most of the airgroups will base here in opening months. Supply and fuel will be stockpiled here. I like to use the 3k AP for transport TF to and from Truk. This keeps them as safe as possible. The 2k AP run supply from Truk to Rabaul and then some of them homeport at Rabaul and move troops and supply to the next level bases. Shortland and Lae. Lae however only gets AP convoy if the airfield at Port Moresby is quiet (so run a convoy here early) the 1k AP are used for the more exposed bases. Fast Transport using CL/DD are the safest means but this will wear out the ships. Prior to attampting invasion of Port Moresby it is a good idea to have Gili Gili (capture with Nav Gar unit on Fast Transport-then move a baseforce and engineer. build port to level 3 and airfield to level 2. Then if ships are damaged you have a port they can run into for repair. If possible also put some fuel here to refuel Bombardment TF's. Capture Buna with a Nav Gar on fast Transport to cut retreat route and just prior to landing on PM also drop a Nav Gar on hex just north of there. Now PM garrision has no place to retreat to. (thanks Dan)
to be continued....
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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dpstafford
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:50 am
- Location: Colbert Nation
Re: continued
Disagree right from the start. Rabaul for air ops yes, but Shortland is better for fuel build up and naval ops. It is much closer to the east Solomons and virtually the same distance to P-NG. In fact, fleets traveling on missions to Port Moresby are under threat of allied air attack for fewer miles when steaming out of Shortland than Rabaul. I challenge you to make a case for Rabaul over Shortland as primary IJN foward NAVAL base.Originally posted by Mogami
May 1 1942, Japan has sveral bases of importance. Rabaul of course is the main base below Truk. Most of the airgroups will base here in opening months. Supply and fuel will be stockpiled here.
Hi, Rabaul can operate level bombers. Bombers use supply. Shortland has a size 2 airfield. Ships do not use supply. CAP over Rabaul is better then CAP over Shortland.
Shortland as will be seen is important in Port Moresby Operations for reasons you mention. However Rabaul is easier to build and the time considerations preclude building Shortland in time.
(Get the port to size 3 for PM ops) The 3k AP's drop at Rabaul, the 2k AP's move from Rabaual to Shortland. The Solomon's can wait for the time being. (no sense building Lunga with nothing to protect it) Trying to maintain two large bases before commencing offensive operations splits Japanese ASW assets. Shortland is closer to allied bases making their sub ops easier. There are a lot of shallow/coastal hexes around Shortland for enemy mines. Rabaul only has 2 hexes to watch and minesweepers and ASW can sit on them. Kavieng and Rabaul together allow ASW F to patrol between them. I am only dealing at present for opening weeks of campaign with future intent to invest Port Moresby.
The CV do not operate from Shortland as do the bombardment TF's. The CV lend their fighter groups to the LBA attacks.
Replenshment TF operates from Shortland.
Shortland as will be seen is important in Port Moresby Operations for reasons you mention. However Rabaul is easier to build and the time considerations preclude building Shortland in time.
(Get the port to size 3 for PM ops) The 3k AP's drop at Rabaul, the 2k AP's move from Rabaual to Shortland. The Solomon's can wait for the time being. (no sense building Lunga with nothing to protect it) Trying to maintain two large bases before commencing offensive operations splits Japanese ASW assets. Shortland is closer to allied bases making their sub ops easier. There are a lot of shallow/coastal hexes around Shortland for enemy mines. Rabaul only has 2 hexes to watch and minesweepers and ASW can sit on them. Kavieng and Rabaul together allow ASW F to patrol between them. I am only dealing at present for opening weeks of campaign with future intent to invest Port Moresby.
The CV do not operate from Shortland as do the bombardment TF's. The CV lend their fighter groups to the LBA attacks.
Replenshment TF operates from Shortland.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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dpstafford
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:50 am
- Location: Colbert Nation
Shortland
No need for CAP at Shortland. While ships running in and out of Rabaul are frequntly targeted by long-range Hudsons and B-17, I have yet to ever see this at Shortland. The bigger initial port is a plus for Rabaul for quicker loading and unloading. But I believe the deep water path from Truk to Shortland is actually shorter than the one to Rabaul. On balance, I say Shortland is better in both the short term and especially the long term.Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Rabaul can operate level bombers. Bombers use supply. Shortland has a size 2 airfield. Ships do not use supply. CAP over Rabaul is better then CAP over Shortland.
OK
OK use it. It is a much easier target for enemy to strike then Rabaul. No need for CAP? (Can we do a quick couple months PBEM? just intill you capture PM)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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dpstafford
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:50 am
- Location: Colbert Nation
Re: OK
OK, thanks, I will.Originally posted by Mogami
OK use it. It is a much easier target for enemy to strike then Rabaul. No need for CAP?
In none of my PBEM's has anyone ever stuck Shortland. No need for CAP!
lets rock
Mogami99@aol.com Of course you know I will hit Shortlands as often I can. A base on the rim is always more exposed then arear one. And Rabaul becomes a rear area after the fall of PM.
Shortlands remains exposed to attack up the moment Lunga is up and running.
Shortlands remains exposed to attack up the moment Lunga is up and running.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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dpstafford
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:50 am
- Location: Colbert Nation
Lets roll......
I meant, OK, as in I will continue to use Shortland in my games. You're not serious about a castrated campaign game just to prove a point? Are you? Part of the reason why Shortland is "better" is because the US player doesn't expect you to use it. As for CAP, since my CV's also stage out of Shortland, there is plenty of CAP available from the fleet. And should the USN be foolish enough to venture out before 1943, I am in a better, closer position to POUNCE!Originally posted by Mogami
Mogami99@aol.com Of course you know I will hit Shortlands as often I can. A base on the rim is always more exposed then arear one. And Rabaul becomes a rear area after the fall of PM.
Shortlands remains exposed to attack up the moment Lunga is up and running.
Yep, it's SHORTLAND in a landslide!!! Try in on your next unsuspecting victim.............
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CapAndGown
- Posts: 3078
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: Virginia, USA
I just want to chime in with DP here: Shortlands makes an excelent MAIN naval base. The port starts at size 5. Cap can be provided very early with the two Rufe units. Carriers can also contribut to CAP should that be needed. In fact, before my carriers head off into the Coral Sea, I make a refueling stop at Shortlands. This not only tops them up, it allows their airgroups to fill out with replacements. The direct route to Truk is shorter than that between Truk and Rabual. I also tend to park all my AV units in Shorlands adding to the capacity of the base. A size one airfield can be built there within a week. (I always start in on the airfield first and only after it is size two do I start expanding the port.) As DP pointed out, Shortlands is also good because it takes ships away from PM on their return journey, unlike Rabual. Better yet, capture Rossell Island very early, then your ships will not be forced to round Gili-Gili as they retreat from PM.
I also tend to go for Lunga right away in regimental strength. It is much easier to hold it than trying to take it away from an allied player that decides he wants to beat you to it. By the end of May I have a size 2 airfield there with the 4th Base Force unit providing support.
Because of this early grab of Lunga, Shortlands can no longer be considered on the "rim". Now Lunga is. At this point I turn my attention to PM.
I also tend to go for Lunga right away in regimental strength. It is much easier to hold it than trying to take it away from an allied player that decides he wants to beat you to it. By the end of May I have a size 2 airfield there with the 4th Base Force unit providing support.
Because of this early grab of Lunga, Shortlands can no longer be considered on the "rim". Now Lunga is. At this point I turn my attention to PM.
Originally posted by cap_and_gown
I just want to chime in with DP here: Shortlands makes an excelent MAIN naval base. The port starts at size 5. Cap can be provided very early with the two Rufe units. Carriers can also contribut to CAP should that be needed. In fact, before my carriers head off into the Coral Sea, I make a refueling stop at Shortlands. This not only tops them up, it allows their airgroups to fill out with replacements. The direct route to Truk is shorter than that between Truk and Rabual. I also tend to park all my AV units in Shorlands adding to the capacity of the base. A size one airfield can be built there within a week. (I always start in on the airfield first and only after it is size two do I start expanding the port.) As DP pointed out, Shortlands is also good because it takes ships away from PM on their return journey, unlike Rabual. Better yet, capture Rossell Island very early, then your ships will not be forced to round Gili-Gili as they retreat from PM.
I also tend to go for Lunga right away in regimental strength. It is much easier to hold it than trying to take it away from an allied player that decides he wants to beat you to it. By the end of May I have a size 2 airfield there with the 4th Base Force unit providing support.
Because of this early grab of Lunga, Shortlands can no longer be considered on the "rim". Now Lunga is. At this point I turn my attention to PM.
Hi, If you allow Lunga to become a factor early in the campaign you play right into the allied players hand. There are not enough Japanese to split between building/guarding Lunga and capturing Port Moresby. The Allies are content to get what they can in return for Port Moresby and retake it after Sept 42.
I am not denying the importance of Shortland. It is a vital base.
It begins in a more exposed position then Rabaul (anything that can reach Rabaul can reach Shortland. 4th Base Force is a wasted united at Shortland (it is the largest Japanese Baseforce it belongs at the largest Japanese base.) AV's do not lend support to ground based aircraft. They will support your Rufes. (myself I choose not to relie on Rufes to protect vital bases/ships.)
Personally I think we are splitting hairs overthis but Rabaul remains my choice of main base. The barges from there can run to Kavieng and to Gasmata/Hoskins and then towards Lae. Rabaul based barges also service Buka (Shortlands can do as well) If you feel Shortlands wil do then by all means use it. However my advise to allied players who discover early build up at Shortland is to make it a target. The smaller airfield will make a differance. It is more exposed (there are no bases forward to provide early warning or patrols. I do not believe in unjustified risks. It requires more effort to protect Shortlands then Rabaul.
And it seems you both are interested in conducting two operations at one time. I refrain from doing that. (yes Lunga is sitting there easy to capture. I would prefer the allies to land there with as much as they care to put there. I am only interested in securing Port Moresby. Once that has been done and I have no distractions I will move towards Lunga. (in the interm I do build the Buka/Buin/Shortland line and start on the Vila/Russell/Lunga-Tulagi base line (but Lung-Tulagi being the farthest out are the last I worry about. Allied surface TF's can harrass Lunga and this requires at least an equal commitment from me. I do not care to commitment any ship larger then a patrol boat to this area during operations directed againstPort Moresby. If you go two directions at once you give the allies 2 choices of where to fight. I prefer he fight one losing battle or sit on the sidelines while I secure my flank.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Re: Lets roll......
Originally posted by dpstafford
I meant, OK, as in I will continue to use Shortland in my games. You're not serious about a castrated campaign game just to prove a point? Are you? Part of the reason why Shortland is "better" is because the US player doesn't expect you to use it. As for CAP, since my CV's also stage out of Shortland, there is plenty of CAP available from the fleet. And should the USN be foolish enough to venture out before 1943, I am in a better, closer position to POUNCE!
Yep, it's SHORTLAND in a landslide!!! Try in on your next unsuspecting victim.............
Hi, Do your opponents not fly recon? How long can someone be unsuspecting if they are doing the basic chore of flying recon do over enemy bases. (100 zeros flying CAP over shortland would be a clue) As for castrating the campaign I have never quit a PBEM game my opponent wished to continue. To base operations on "they've never reacted before" is not something I would do. I always plan for my opponent doing what I do not expect, eternal vigilance is the price of safety
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
-
Oleg Mastruko
- Posts: 4534
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Mogami why are you so fixated on PM?
I think early buildup of Shortland and Lunga/Tulagi is a viable strategy.
What do you (you as in all of you, not only Mogami) think of this semi-strategic outline:
- Capture and buildup of Lungga/Tulaghi ASAP, and making it into huge Zero/Betty base with the aim of terrorising the allied player up to (or down to) his doorstep at Noumea
- Capture of Buna, Wau and Gili with at least Regiment + support each (Wau is essential, I hope not to have to explain why)
- Fortify Wau, Buna and Gili, capture outlying islands (perhaps putting a garrison on more important ones)
- Maybe send a regiment to scout down the Kokoda trail to the outskirts of PM
- Keep division or two of infantry in Rabaul as a reserve. When you see where the allied player is going to attack (most probably Gili or Buna) - commit them
- Wait and fortify
- Alied offensive in NG area must go via either PM or Gili (Gili that is Japanese held). You blockade them with subs and Bettys slowly irritating the allied player. Subs and Bettys from Lae or Gili work almost as well as aircraft from PM in stopping the allies north of Australia, and you kept your valuable infantry (that would have been killed in PM invasion) alive
- Of course - Solomons theatre must have at least a division as their reserve. If you keep infantry reserves in Shortland instead of PM then they may act as reserves for both theatres (whoever needs them first)
I must say that I become reluctant to go on forcing the capture of PM if I see the Allied player managed to reinforce it with 2-3 additional Brigades early, It seems to me capturing PM in this case is more trouble than it's worth. Use your very good infantry to build up strong defensicve positions in Gili, Wau, and Buna, and let's see Allied heros take on your entrenched infantry in a hand to hand fight!
"Semi-strategy" outlined above is designed to "protect" Japs from early losing their arguably most valuable asset - Jap infantry. Yes, that's right, the despised Jap infantry. Allied player may find the way to shut down any medium sized airbase with his bombers. Allied player may even find the cure for your strong Navy. But Allied player is absolutely dreading a situation when he must invade a base defended by strong and fanatical Jap infantry! That's what I am dreading the most in my games as Allies.
So, the above strategy that I want you all to comment may be sumarised as this: put strong and well supplied infantry elements in Gili, Dobadura/Buna/Kokoda Trail areas, in preparation for strategic defense (this assumes you didn't capture PM of course). You ABSOLUTELY, at all costs will want to get Wau. Yes, Wau, because if you don't capture this obscure airfield, it may be a backdoor for allied C47s to land Australian infantry division in Lae's backyard, thus threatening the whole NG theatre for Japs. In PBEM as Allies, I'll gladly do that to you
As for aircraft and naval elements - I suggest carefully keeping them out of peripheral bases, maybe with the exception of naval forces in Gili (you'll need them for bombing runs to PM if you want to go after PM in your game).
In Solomons, capture Lungga and make it into a one big ugly mothafucka bad-*** base filled with engineers, infantry, Bettys, whatnot up to the ears.
O.
I think early buildup of Shortland and Lunga/Tulagi is a viable strategy.
What do you (you as in all of you, not only Mogami) think of this semi-strategic outline:
- Capture and buildup of Lungga/Tulaghi ASAP, and making it into huge Zero/Betty base with the aim of terrorising the allied player up to (or down to) his doorstep at Noumea
- Capture of Buna, Wau and Gili with at least Regiment + support each (Wau is essential, I hope not to have to explain why)
- Fortify Wau, Buna and Gili, capture outlying islands (perhaps putting a garrison on more important ones)
- Maybe send a regiment to scout down the Kokoda trail to the outskirts of PM
- Keep division or two of infantry in Rabaul as a reserve. When you see where the allied player is going to attack (most probably Gili or Buna) - commit them
- Wait and fortify
- Alied offensive in NG area must go via either PM or Gili (Gili that is Japanese held). You blockade them with subs and Bettys slowly irritating the allied player. Subs and Bettys from Lae or Gili work almost as well as aircraft from PM in stopping the allies north of Australia, and you kept your valuable infantry (that would have been killed in PM invasion) alive
- Of course - Solomons theatre must have at least a division as their reserve. If you keep infantry reserves in Shortland instead of PM then they may act as reserves for both theatres (whoever needs them first)
I must say that I become reluctant to go on forcing the capture of PM if I see the Allied player managed to reinforce it with 2-3 additional Brigades early, It seems to me capturing PM in this case is more trouble than it's worth. Use your very good infantry to build up strong defensicve positions in Gili, Wau, and Buna, and let's see Allied heros take on your entrenched infantry in a hand to hand fight!
"Semi-strategy" outlined above is designed to "protect" Japs from early losing their arguably most valuable asset - Jap infantry. Yes, that's right, the despised Jap infantry. Allied player may find the way to shut down any medium sized airbase with his bombers. Allied player may even find the cure for your strong Navy. But Allied player is absolutely dreading a situation when he must invade a base defended by strong and fanatical Jap infantry! That's what I am dreading the most in my games as Allies.
So, the above strategy that I want you all to comment may be sumarised as this: put strong and well supplied infantry elements in Gili, Dobadura/Buna/Kokoda Trail areas, in preparation for strategic defense (this assumes you didn't capture PM of course). You ABSOLUTELY, at all costs will want to get Wau. Yes, Wau, because if you don't capture this obscure airfield, it may be a backdoor for allied C47s to land Australian infantry division in Lae's backyard, thus threatening the whole NG theatre for Japs. In PBEM as Allies, I'll gladly do that to you
As for aircraft and naval elements - I suggest carefully keeping them out of peripheral bases, maybe with the exception of naval forces in Gili (you'll need them for bombing runs to PM if you want to go after PM in your game).
In Solomons, capture Lungga and make it into a one big ugly mothafucka bad-*** base filled with engineers, infantry, Bettys, whatnot up to the ears.
O.
Port Moresby
Hi, I am "fixated" on Port Moresby because I do not believe the Japanese can fight in both the Solomon's and New Guinea.
The Japanese cannot "pile" their troops into Lunga (or any other base) early.
If they do my advice to the Allies is to wait 3-4 months and let the jungle go to work. The Allies with their advantage in both engineer and heavy bombers use the time building bases.
It is my opinion that the fleet must hold the Solomon's and airgroups Port Moresby. Transport TF's after Aug/Sept 42 must not move within 20 hexes of any allied size 4(+) airfield.
Hence my building of chains of ports so barge traffic can move.
I hold the infantry up at Truk (since all other bases are just as bad as another) Garrisons down south are kept as small as possible right up to the time the allies decide to attack. (you'll know) Recon is very important.
In essence though I simply do not wish to fight two campaigns at once. I do Port Moresby early because the door is only open for a short time. (once those allied air HQ come into play and he is able to mass 50+ B-17 in one strike (Sept 42) the party is over.
I do not offer advice on how to play against the AI. But against a reasonable patient human the Japanese cannot adopt the "pile" defense. There are not enough ground troops to cover all the targets. Port Moresby will make every base in New Guinea untenable. And project it's air power up to Rabaul/Shortland keeping ships from using those ports. (Try putting ships in Rabaul or Shortlands and stopping those 50+ B-17 raids at night)
It is this reason I go all the way to San Cristabol. Lunga to be sure falls into the B-17 range from L'ville/Santa Cruz area but Lunga is not one of my ports for keeping ships. (barges run down the Shortland/Vila/Russell/Lunga-Tulagi chain)
The campaigns are 610 turns long. All non Port Moresby first strategy play into the allied strengths. Time is on their side.
The Japanese must conduct all their offensives as rapidly as possible. It is not ground units that will hold any Island or Base it is the fleet and the airgroups in support. Port Moresby is the main threat to the fleet. (It must have a safe port within supporting range of the forward Japanese bases.)
The Japanese cannot "pile" their troops into Lunga (or any other base) early.
If they do my advice to the Allies is to wait 3-4 months and let the jungle go to work. The Allies with their advantage in both engineer and heavy bombers use the time building bases.
It is my opinion that the fleet must hold the Solomon's and airgroups Port Moresby. Transport TF's after Aug/Sept 42 must not move within 20 hexes of any allied size 4(+) airfield.
Hence my building of chains of ports so barge traffic can move.
I hold the infantry up at Truk (since all other bases are just as bad as another) Garrisons down south are kept as small as possible right up to the time the allies decide to attack. (you'll know) Recon is very important.
In essence though I simply do not wish to fight two campaigns at once. I do Port Moresby early because the door is only open for a short time. (once those allied air HQ come into play and he is able to mass 50+ B-17 in one strike (Sept 42) the party is over.
I do not offer advice on how to play against the AI. But against a reasonable patient human the Japanese cannot adopt the "pile" defense. There are not enough ground troops to cover all the targets. Port Moresby will make every base in New Guinea untenable. And project it's air power up to Rabaul/Shortland keeping ships from using those ports. (Try putting ships in Rabaul or Shortlands and stopping those 50+ B-17 raids at night)
It is this reason I go all the way to San Cristabol. Lunga to be sure falls into the B-17 range from L'ville/Santa Cruz area but Lunga is not one of my ports for keeping ships. (barges run down the Shortland/Vila/Russell/Lunga-Tulagi chain)
The campaigns are 610 turns long. All non Port Moresby first strategy play into the allied strengths. Time is on their side.
The Japanese must conduct all their offensives as rapidly as possible. It is not ground units that will hold any Island or Base it is the fleet and the airgroups in support. Port Moresby is the main threat to the fleet. (It must have a safe port within supporting range of the forward Japanese bases.)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!