ORIGINAL: paradigmblue
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
In short, 1942 really, really, REALLY matters.
That all makes sense Bullwinkle.
I think a lot of the problem stems from the flexibility of the Japanese war machine vs the Allies, and I think you're on to something when you talk about how Japanese players have been able to utilize the economic tools available to them to a level that was probably not originally thought possible. Bottom line, the WitP the Allies are asked to fight an enemy that - in the hands of a competent Japanese player - is much more powerful than it's historical counterpart, and must do so with only it's own historical tools.
I think that is why I'm so comfortable with what-if scenarios and mods in WitP:AE - the game stops being a historical simulation the moment the Japanese rush a carrier or new airframe, so adding other non-historical elements doesn't seem like it's tarnishing the purity of the game as it does to others. I have respect for their position, but I don't share it.
What would you think about more flexibility for the allies through tools like Juan's aircraft mod? I'm thinking a system that actually has all the Indian, American and Australian emergency reinforcements starting in the game, but that has them under a static HQ, so PP needs to be paid to release them - giving the allied player additional forces but making them pay the PP cost. A small increase in PP per turn could be added as well, as most allied players are short on PP for what they want to do in 42 as it is.
Honestly, just switching the reliable USN torpedoes toggle to "ON" might solve a lot of the sub problems. I agree that the USN subs aren't as effective as they were historically, and by the time the USN torpedoes are reliable in game, Japan's ASW capability is such that they can't be put to proper use. Starting the game with reliable USN torpedoes gives them a window to actually interdict shipping in a more historic manner.
I'm just spitballing here, partially because I'm still working on my (very) non-historical, and frankly implausible alternate history mod, and I'm looking for ideas, and partially because I find it fascinating how good players can bend the framework of a game to their advantage. While I'm primarily and AFB, I have a huge amount of respect for the JFBs that eke out their results from an industry design that is byzantine at best.
There have been few (or no?) mods that aid the Allies. The major what-if mods serve to make the IJN even more dominant and we see them romping all over the WC in AARs. I don't know why there haven't been more Allied-focused mods. Probably few Japan players would paly against them.
Juan's planes idea is a good one, but it sort of had a life in the modder sub-forum and then seemed to fade. Your idea of making the emergency packages buyable has merit too, but only if the PP budget is increased as you say. 50/day in stock with no starting pool doesn't get it done now. I played one AI campaign with Allied daily PP at 70 and it was a very different game.
However, I have also experimented with dud torpedoes OFF and it's a no-go for me. Too many boats in Manila, too short transits to known invasion gotta-haves for Japan. Carnage on the transports.
That said, the Allied sub war is the poorest part of the game IMO. Was in WITP too. Not a criticism of the dev teams, but GG has always loved airplanes and it shows. The AE team's charge was not wholesale re-writes and their changes to sub, especially zones, were great. But the sub war models just don't work to make this warfare community the dominant force it was in RL. Taken on balance, submarines had more to do with defeating Japan than airplanes did. In the game they're punks.
There are several main areas where the game models fail:
1. DL drives all. There are no sensor models in AE; DL stands in for many things. But the DL model is built to service surface ships. There is no sub-model to account for how submarines operate. In the war the routine was to patrol at PD and hunt at night. The game doesn't have a DL for submerged. In the game DL persists across 12-hour phases. In RL a dived submarine would clear datum in minutes on an unknown course and speed and within an hour present the same initial detection problem again to the enemy. In the game a sub is found, hit, a DL of 10 assigned, and it's worthless for that day.
2. Initial detection and attack ratios are too high. In RL, certainly from 1943 onward, the most typical method of detecting a USN sub was to have a merchant in company explode and burn. Most severe damagings and sinkings by ASW were in response to a sub which made itself known, not one detected before the attack. The game has randoms for this; they're too high.
3. Again, by randoms and some sort of coefficient system, the game assigns the sub a target. Far too many times it's an escort. Up to half the time in my experience. Look at targets sunk in the official post-war records. Look at escort versus merchant ratios. In the game code the sub almost always gets only one attack per turn. Most escorts have high maneuver ratings. The one attack usually misses and the sub now has a DL of 10 mostly. It's useless unless moved and it re-acquires a new TF. This happens rarely. Most of my subs, if they get in an attack per patrol, only get one. Again, read patrol reports.
4. By far the biggest factor in the limp sub results is the attack code. Each sub fires at one ship in its TF in almost all occasions. In RL, once a convoy of nay size was found and the escorts sorted out, multiple ships were targeted in the initial spread. If the convoy was large enough the sub would spin to bring to stern tubes to bear as well. After radar was installed, a night attacker could also attack, evade, end-around, and re-attack farther up the track. The game has none of this. If you want to see perhaps the best example of what I'm talking about, read the MOH citation for USS Parche and CO "Red" Ramage.
5. The USN sub war leaned heavily on intel intercepts, far more than are available in the game. They sank or helped sink 11 IJN carriers for example. Even half that in an AE game would find JFBs howling. But that's the history.
Almost everything affecting the sub war is hidden in the EXE unfortunately. The one major factor that isn't is the dud rate. The "healing" dates and percentages are hard-coded, but the initial dud rate is exposed in the editor. Lokasenna and I discussed a mod where by the historic dud rate reduction--which was different by theater and intermediate commander--could be adjusted at a cost to the Allied player through the upgrade system. Under this, new Mk 14 devices would be created with faster down-steps in the dud rate. These new devices would be available only in new, interim upgrades that demanded an extra transit home and time in the yard or alongside the AS. This would serve to allow the Allied player to customize the sub force a bit. Some boats could be left as now in the front lines with the current dud rate trajectory through the fall of 1943 when dud rates flatline across the force. Other boats could be rotated home to accelerate the reduction in the dud rate by being taken off line for a period of a month to six weeks or so. The Japanese player would have no knowledge of if, when, or how many.
We haven't worked on this mod. If we play another game together we might. I don't think the editor work would be that bad. Tedious maybe, but not complex. Made easier by not being necessary for any new construction subs after the Great Healing date in September 1943.
