Beta Patch VVS performance

[ShaggyHiK]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

We can theorize a lot of how it was IRL. But I have screens from by combats. I lost 22% of my tactical bombers in 1 attack. Soviets had only natural AA in their divisions. No additional AA support units. Before an attack I checked that hex at it was showing that Soviets have 2/0 flak. 2/0 means 2 low level flak AA value. It is not untypical to see this number. And it can be much higher, 3,4,5. What would happen in that case with tactical bombers?

During Soviet attack they lost 0 il2 planes or any other due to AA fire. There was reserve commitment from a panzer division with directly attracted AA unit. On map it shows as 1/0.
0 flak losses from Soviet side. Maybe it is due to armor, maybe not. I do not know. Maybe it was just bad luck. But if this pattern occurs in the next battles then we can not talk about any balance.

Quoting AlbertN from other thread:
"I stalled my new Axis games as soon as on T1 the VVS blasted away a bazillion of German guns across the board"

An interesting comment from Albert, it is interesting to look at how he controlled aviation that the Soviet was able to make so much noise on the first or second move.

[Lovenought]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

They are. But I lost 25% of them in one attack due to AA in divisions. No AA SUs from Soviet side. I produce 14 per turn. In one attack I lost more than I produce. And it is with a dominance in the air. Soviet fighters were wiped out completely, 41 out of 41 plane.

The Soviet Anti-Tank Regiment actually uses the 85mm AA gun as it's primary equipment. Although that was still only one SU, to be fair.

[Stamb]

You can check post 65 in this thread, first screenshot. Soviets kill/disrupt artillery/at guns in mass. Despite presence of my fighters (what would happen without them?). Probably it is the same for him.

ORIGINAL: Lovenought

ORIGINAL: Stamb

They are. But I lost 25% of them in one attack due to AA in divisions. No AA SUs from Soviet side. I produce 14 per turn. In one attack I lost more than I produce. And it is with a dominance in the air. Soviet fighters were wiped out completely, 41 out of 41 plane.

The Soviet Anti-Tank Regiment actually uses the 85mm AA gun as it's primary equipment. Although that was still only one SU, to be fair.

Aha.

[ShaggyHiK]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

I lost 22% of my tactical bombers in 1 attack.

This is not the first time I've come across the opinion "I lost 22% of my Air Force, I can't use it"

When in my game I lose 600-800 aircraft for the Soviet side. People look at me like I'm crazy, why are you doing this?

This is the essence of the problem. Someone wants to salt their planes so that they can be better preserved, and someone wants to influence the enemy, trying to somehow interfere with him and inflict losses.

[Stamb]

I showed production rate of tactical bombers. In 1 attack I lost more than I produce. Yes, I will be not able to use it as there will be nothing to use. Its simple!

[ShaggyHiK]

I think there is no need to feel sorry for your aviation. While the group has at least 10 aircraft. They should fly and try to be useful.

Try the GA task for your Ju-87s in the areas where you are going to attack.
Make a GA for your He-111s and Ju-88s by disrupting Soviet supply depots.
Create small groups of Ju-87s and FBs as Bombers for close air support.

Before that, build at least level 2 of the airfield. Using your building shelves so you don't suffer from depleting your planes too much.

Create a task for an experienced JG superiority group in this area, and of course organize reconnaissance of all these targets with your reconnaissance aircraft.

Perhaps you will make a mistake in something, and you will not do as well as you would like, you will suffer losses. Perhaps the enemy will fly, start hitting him at the airfields. Destroying the infrastructure of the airfield.
Force him to leave the area.

Fighting the enemy is always a loss, if you think that Soviet aviation is endless, you are mistaken. It is no less infinite than yours.

[Stamb]

GA is banned as it has some weird interception rules.
JG are already trained to a max.
good luck trying to build airbases and expand them near a front (ju 87 range) with Axis supply in `41

On that note I have to take care of IRL things.

[Lovenought]

ORIGINAL: ShaggyHiK

ORIGINAL: Stamb

I lost 22% of my tactical bombers in 1 attack.

This is not the first time I've come across the opinion "I lost 22% of my Air Force, I can't use it"

When in my game I lose 600-800 aircraft for the Soviet side. People look at me like I'm crazy, why are you doing this?

This is the essence of the problem. Someone wants to salt their planes so that they can be better preserved, and someone wants to influence the enemy, trying to somehow interfere with him and inflict losses.

Soviets and Germans are not really comparable. Soviets have enormous amounts of production and very low quality pilots. So the VVS is expendable.

Germans have excellent pilots but low production (in the early war, at least). They need to use their aircraft/pilots carefully.

[ShaggyHiK]

How much is produced per Ju-88 and He-111 ro attack on airfields?
How many aircraft can be produced that can be used on a par with the Ju-87? Bf-110, 109?
You can continue to ban GA. But the fact that with GA interception occurs less often, in my opinion, this is normal.

I have explained the reasons for this more than once, but in fact you forbid fighting in a war.