Beta Patch VVS performance

[IDGBIA]

The .19 betapatch seems to of vastly improved the vvs

The listed changes are "Defensive ground support often totally misses the target. Fixed." however on the offensive the vvs seems to of also received a significant boost to performance, I first spotted this looking at a battle in the RedJohn The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered AAR so I loaded a few scenarios in both patches and it seems as though the VVS is up to 5x more effective in terms of not just disruption but also damaged and destroyed elements.

This seems to be similar to the artillery beta patch except the other way around as while im sure the underlying mechanical change affects both sides the soviets seem to benefit much more as a larger amount of guns destroyed and damaged harms axis much more than soviet

This is just a random screenshot of a battle I had in an ongoing game so not a perfect demonstration but I'm sure anyone else who often looks at battles and stares at HPE values and whatnot will see that this vvs performance is a huge upgrade to the usual destruction of one or two guns

I know its a betapatch for testing purposes so my feedback would be that this is perhaps a bit of an overcorrection in terms of making the vvs useful and the notes seem to somewhat understate the changes "Defensive ground support often totally misses the target. Fixed" as offensive airpower also seems much stronger

[loki100]

since there the LW had no defensive commitment then it looks WAD, there is an escalation of losses for uncontested GS as in 18.1.3:

[Stamb]

Would be nice to know if Axis side can except same results with their GS and if this changes were intended or some side effect?

[IDGBIA]

Heres the same battle run on the current official patch, couldn't get the exact same conditions because of reserve activation and the number of planes joining but as you can see even with less planes the difference in performance is still huge on the official patch even totally unintercepted the VVS is underwhelming in GS

I'll try set up some battles to see if axis planes are similarly aided by the patch but from running a few battles in typhoon scenario they don't seem to be but again its hard to get the same amount joining for consistent results

[Stamb]

Oh. That last picture is what we get used too see!

Interesting to see if this was planned (if so - why no mention in a patch) or not?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Would be nice to know if Axis side can except same results with their GS and if this changes were intended or some side effect?

of course not, the entire game is an anti-german design [8D]

or more sensibly, it was always intended there was a bonus if one side just went and hid so if that is now happening then yes both sides gain

[Stamb]

Maybe GS will be finally useful.

[Stamb]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Would be nice to know if Axis side can except same results with their GS and if this changes were intended or some side effect?

of course not, the entire game is an anti-german design [8D]
...

This is what I am trying to say in a topics! Thanks for supporting me and other Axis fellows

[Stamb]

IDGBIA
Can you run defensive GS test? If defensive air support will provide same results?

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: loki100

since there the LW had no defensive commitment then it looks WAD, there is an escalation of losses for uncontested GS as in 18.1.3:

Isnt what the manual is saying something different though? Like I dont see how what is in the highlighted section translates to: If one side doesnt commit to GS, you do more damage?

If you hadnt explained it as clearly as you did above, I would have never guessed that thats what it means.

[ShaggyHiK]

Oh, those disgusting German players... *My cannons are dying in a raid of 200 bombers and no cover from the Luftwaffe*

Nerf the Soviets!!11!!

*Stubbornly continues not to use his Luftwaffe and takes him from the beginning of the game to other theaters of war*

[ShaggyHiK]

Playing Soviet Air Forces in terms of their effectiveness do not even reach 10% of the real performance indicators.
German player:

*I don't care about the Soviets*

German player shooting down 200 aircraft out of 210 and losing 3 fighters on OPS losses:

*TOO HIGH LOSS FROM OPS DID NOT HAPPEN!!!*

[ShaggyHiK]

Soviet aviation ends without the active participation of German aviation in the subsequent turns after the first if it is just trying to fly. German player:

*Yes, I don’t care about the problems of aviation, especially the Soviet one, I move tanks*

Aviation receives the necessary buff:

*NERF SOVIET AVIATION!!!!*

[ShaggyHiK]

The line aviation buff is simply necessary.

That German and Soviet linear aviation is simply useless in operations against Ground Forces. Which does not reflect its effectiveness in reality.

This of course almost does not touch the issue of attack aircraft such as Ju-87 or IL-2, which may be even more effective than they should be.

The question is the complete inefficiency of such aircraft as the Ju-88 He-111 Pe-2 SB-2 IL-4 and the like. They are simply not able to even get somewhere, although the Soviet aviation was able to deliver bombing strikes, especially the German one.

[Rosencrantus]

This patch seemed to improve GS in general. If the axis brings as much aircraft into a battle they get even better results with their much higher XP. Look at all those disruptions and destroyed even with the Soviets sending 233 fighters into the combat.

There is no need to jump to conclusions too quickly. Honestly I'm surprised the VVS didn't do more in your screenshot since a single german fighter wasn't even in the air.

GS won me this battle which made the Soviets suffer heavily.

[Stamb]

That's great to hear. Finally GS is great again.

[Hardradi]

ORIGINAL: Rosencrantus

This patch seemed to improve GS in general. If the axis brings as much aircraft into a battle they get even better results with their much higher XP. Look at all those disruptions and destroyed even with the Soviets sending 233 fighters into the combat.

There is no need to jump to conclusions too quickly. Honestly I'm surprised the VVS didn't do more in your screenshot since a single german fighter wasn't even in the air.

GS won me this battle which made the Soviets suffer heavily.

Wow, those destroyed numbers are something else. Looks like you had a lot of targets to choose from.

Here I accidentally flew a huge GS mission(for me), disruptions are ok but few or no kills or damage.

[Hardradi]

Even the Rumanian's get in on the act:

[Rosencrantus]

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

ORIGINAL: Rosencrantus

This patch seemed to improve GS in general. If the axis brings as much aircraft into a battle they get even better results with their much higher XP. Look at all those disruptions and destroyed even with the Soviets sending 233 fighters into the combat.

There is no need to jump to conclusions too quickly. Honestly I'm surprised the VVS didn't do more in your screenshot since a single german fighter wasn't even in the air.

GS won me this battle which made the Soviets suffer heavily.

Wow, those destroyed numbers are something else. Looks like you had a lot of targets to choose from.

Here I accidentally flew a huge GS mission(for me), disruptions are ok but few or no kills or damage.

Yeah I had a lot of tactical bombers which was why soviet guns/arty got destroyed so much. In this picture you had basically only level bombers doing most of the work and they are much more inaccurate than tac bombers, though I guess you got unlucky with such low destroyed numbers still. All those disruptions are still really good for the hasty attack though so I wouldn't have that many complaints.

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: Rosencrantus

Yeah I had a lot of tactical bombers which was why soviet guns/arty got destroyed so much. In this picture you had basically only level bombers doing most of the work and they are much more inaccurate than tac bombers, though I guess you got unlucky with such low destroyed numbers still.

Yeah, Tactical Bombers are great at hitting arty/guns. I showed that a few times in my AAR too. LBs seem a lot more likely to disrupt.

GS under current patch seems to be back to what it was before the bug occurred, which is good. More people should make use of it. It is valuable for both sides.