Anyone here who wants to buy my Game?

[soeren01]

ORIGINAL: MG3

I'm not sure why you paid in dollars rather than Euros, but an exchange rate is not a surcharge. If you pay the equivalent dollars to the Euro price, you are still paying the same price. If you converted it back to Euros, it would still be the same price.

I didnt payed in Dollars- thats the main problem! If I would, there would be no problem. Think about it- instead of $ they billed me Euros- but the same amount kept the same which in the end, they/you got over 20% more money from me, since one Euro are 1,22 US Dollars. All I wanted is WITP for 64,99, not for nearly 100 bucks.

Code: Select all

Product Name        Qty Ordered  Platform                       Delivery Method  Price      
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 War In The Pacific  1            Digital Download/CD on Demand  Digital River    64.99 EUR  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                      Sub Total:  64.99 EUR
                                                                            Tax:  11.37 EUR
                                                                          Total:  76.36 EUR]

quote:

But I dont think I will enjoy this game for the next few weeks... this VAT/Euro things made me pretty upset- even it is partly my fault, since I didnt read every little letter but only the numbers.

The goal is not to hide the VAT, we thought it was evident, but as I said we've been getting some feedback to the contrary. The fact is that as far as we know, the VAT is unavoidable. You were charged the same price as a US customer + VAT. That's the only difference. If there's a problem with the store, please help us fix it - we rely on feedback from our European customers to know whether our European store is meeting their needs. If not, we will fix it, but removing VAT is not legally possible for us.

I have never heard of such a thing "VAT"- I know sometimes youre asked if you are from certain states (in the US or Canada), since you get billed a few percent extra. Never so with Germany.

And what would you think if you get a screen where 64,99 is the amount to pay in the bill, you hit submit and suddenly 76 shows up.

The laws requiring the VAT are fairly new ( it passed legislation some month ago ) and are part of the European Union Tax Laws.


Soeren

[irrgang]

Being in EU I'd like to add that I was a bit surpriced as well. I actually cancelled the first time as the total was $20 more than I expected. I got a bit upset as I felt a bit cheated, but returned later to complete the purchase. Ithought I should add some comments that I think are relevant.

Currency: As someone else stated, all prices should be in US$. I don't understand the reason you go through the hazzle and try to convert it before the purchase. Keep the US$ for all and let the customer convert. (Which is usually done by the bank.)

The total price. The bill states a total price. If someone says the total price I'll charge you is $80 I assume he'll be happy if I give hime $80. If VAT will be added it's not a total price IMHO. Just as P&P are stated so should the VAT be stated. So, if you could change the term 'total' on the billing summary to 'Total excl VAT' the surprice factor would go down for EU customers (I think).

So, basically, if Matrix go through the hazzle to establish a euroshop then please try to have it the european style. Not because it's better, but because it's expected. When I shop in a US shop I look for surprices and stuff that might cause problems (because I'm not in the US). Basically the same thing as with my credit card. When buying over internet I make sure it's a secure web page and the site seems to be serious. In RL I don't think twice before I give the shop owner my credit card number...

[soeren01]

ORIGINAL: MG3

Who believes that:

first a company is not able to show you the exact taxes before you push "submit"

The same company doesnt use the right exchange rate when it is in their favor an they can gain a lot of money extra.

Oh- BTW, they got "only" 10$ more from me, since the US price is 69,99$.

So take this money and be glad for it, because I will never buy any product of this company again. Earned a few bucks- lost one potential customer of Close Assault and Combat Leader.

Case closed- have a nice day.

Try the the Bundesbahn online. When you book a train ride online they tell the price after you booked it, not before ( at least most of the time ).

[Hartley]

ORIGINAL: Chuck B.
There is a new EU Directive for VAT on electronically supplied services (2002/38/EC). Under this directive, every non-EU supplier has to charge a PRIVATE customer the respective VAT rate of the country where the customer resides.

There is no way the EU can enforce such a directive over a business located on the other side of the Atlantic.

[Hortlund]

ACTUALLY: Looking at this screen again I think Matrix are in breach of UK contract law. The law in this country states that the customer must be advised of the full cost of an item before accepting the contract.

I can confirm that this would be a breech of Swedish contract law too. You are not allowed to hide certain costs from the customer no matter how much government imposed they are.

[denisonh]

Maybe if everyone wasn't in such a hurry to get the Digital Download up and running, that there would have been a little more time to ensure that the DR was good to go for all the countries in the EU.[:-]

Like the saying goes, "If you want it bad, you get it bad".[8|]

[Hortlund]

ORIGINAL: denisonh
Like the saying goes, "If you want it bad, you get it bad".[8|]

Yes...Im not sure that this is the reputation Matrix would want though.

[denisonh]

Well, I would have to say that it is not the problem that hurts a company's reputation, but how the company addresses them as they are identified.

The fundamental called "customer service".

Matrix has always seemed to do well in that regard.

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: denisonh
Like the saying goes, "If you want it bad, you get it bad".[8|]

Yes...Im not sure that this is the reputation Matrix would want though.

[Speedysteve]

Well i'm a 'Europeaner' too and I sure think we are taxed too much on too many things but this is not the thread or place to go into that.

End of the day i've ordered the DD and the CD on demand (whoever asked why have a European store my answer is that not everyone can facilitate a DD hence quicker receiving times by a European store could be a good thing). I do think the overall price for all of this is a little on the high side. However, I balance this out with the quality of the game and the fun I will have with it.

Looking at the above posts I do not believe MG3 has grounds to complain about the VAT inclusion other than the fact the total cost is NOT displayed until after purchase. It is debatable whether a higher price should be set for game purchase in Europe as opposed to the US then again many products will cost varying ammounts depending on where you are in The World.

As for Rawink - not impressed at all by your rhetoric. No place for that on the board IMHO.

My question - do CD's on demand get sent from the US or from the European store? Just thinking with regard to potential delivery date.

Regards,

Steven

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Well, I would have to say that it is not the problem that hurts a company's reputation, but how the company addresses them as they are identified.

The fundamental called "customer service".

Matrix has always seemed to do well in that regard.

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: denisonh
Like the saying goes, "If you want it bad, you get it bad".[8|]

Yes...Im not sure that this is the reputation Matrix would want though.

Instead of wasting your time arguing whey don't you send me a turn??[:@]



[:D][:D][:D]

[denisonh]

I have been waiting on you.

I will resend

ORIGINAL: Sonny

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Well, I would have to say that it is not the problem that hurts a company's reputation, but how the company addresses them as they are identified.

The fundamental called "customer service".

Matrix has always seemed to do well in that regard.

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund


Yes...Im not sure that this is the reputation Matrix would want though.

Instead of wasting your time arguing whey don't you send me a turn??[:@]



[:D][:D][:D]

[FirstPappy]

Blame it on FRANCE!

[RSGodfrey]

Bravo for raising this issue.

I recently purchased HTTR as a box from here in the UK and was shocked at the final cost.

I said nothing assuming that it was my mistake, after all, caveat emptor.

On reflection I now think that Matrix pricing could be more transparent and would be grateful if someone could satisfy my curiosity as to the way in which European customers' VAT payments find their way to the respective tax collection points.

[Freddy Fudpucker]

ORIGINAL: Hartley

ORIGINAL: Chuck B.
There is a new EU Directive for VAT on electronically supplied services (2002/38/EC). Under this directive, every non-EU supplier has to charge a PRIVATE customer the respective VAT rate of the country where the customer resides.

There is no way the EU can enforce such a directive over a business located on the other side of the Atlantic.

The EU isn't forcing taxes on companies outside the EU. they're forcing taxes on the company's customers WITHIN the EU [:(].

The overall problems are (as stated over and again throughout this thread):

1. The front screen clearly states the TOTAL payable, but only after submitting does the amount increase to include a tax that hasn't been mentioned prior to placing the order.

2. The price charged should be in only one currency. If the game is made in the US, then everyone should be charged in US dollars.

[Hartley]

The EU isn't forcing taxes on companies outside the EU. they're forcing taxes on the company's customers WITHIN the EU

And that's strictly between the EU citizen and the EU, and has nothing to do with the American company.

Thus the American company has no business charging these taxes.

[Lex Talionis]

ORIGINAL: AlbA

As I had abortive attempts to purchase DD and on the phone to UK based DR I can confirm that *even* on the phone the DR staff will tell you, "the price for this is 39.99" - that's sterling, not euros or $ of any persuasion and does not include the 17.5% tax. Note, as previously stated, that we're used to paying a bottom line which includes tax or if prices are stated excluding this then it has to be prominently displayed usually EXCL VAT and certainly before you commit to purchase. My attempts to buy DD or over the phone were both foiled due to DR's setup - which I believe is flawed but nothing to do with this pricing argument, read in THIS THREAD if you're interested.

BUT, I will say that if anyone is feeling hard done to or misold then it's patently obvious that the people at Matrix are eons away from the common, faceless, prevalent, internet merchants with whom you can hope for no discussion and no review and no recourse. It seems to me, naive noob as I am, that these guys mean business and by that mean to do it in a proper fashion.

The exchange differences do sting so for that I feel MG3's pain. However, remember the tenet of three (sic) sure things in life: death; taxes and always leaving some squadrons mistakenly on "Training". Caveat emptor indeed but let the sellers beware that you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you! And that's quite enough cliches, sayings and quotes from me!

AlbA

I too was told when I last week purchased HTTR from DR's United Kingdom online shop that the price I'd be paying was £29.99. If you are quoted that price in the UK, under UK law it is inclusive of 17.5% VAT.

If I'd been told it was exclusive of VAT being added yet I'd still have bought it, but the staff didn't tell me that! very bad practice!

Its also advertised as GB Pounds Sterling and then charged in Euro's! What gives???[&:] Yes its a rollercoaster of someone wins/loses on the exchange rates. But if you advertise it as GB Pounds Sterling sell it at GB Pounds Sterling not Eurotrash monopoly money . If its advertised as Euros sell it at Euro's. Trade Descriptions would have a field day under the Trade Descriptions Act!!!

[Delphinium]

THis never got that heated when I bought Campaigns on the Danube and pointed this out on the forum there [&:]
I have paid my $93 for WitP,CD & VAT, I now KNEW about the VAT. I always see it as a cultural thing - first time I was stateside, Sales Tax always was the surprise, you got 4/5/6% on top of the ticketed price, whereas UK & European prices are always inclusive of the VAT.
My view is that Matrix should learn from this and do the price calculation & show the price we are about to pay BEFORE we confirm, then have a big CONFIRM button. Remember guys, we are dealing with a relatively small organisation here, so as far as I am concerned, if we see a change like above soon, I'll be happy.

(Although they were aware of this issue a while ago [:-] )

[rawink]

I made some new friends!!!

[Pascal_slith]

ORIGINAL: Chuck B.

Hi Pascal,

Sorry, but you are wrong about that.

The following text is taken from I post I did a while ago in the Korsun forum about this issue:

"Furthermore, the explanation "Information about VAT" doesn't really make sense. Digital River obviously tried to implement the new VAT regulation of the EU Directive 2002/38/EC.
Under this Directive, any B2C transaction of electronically supplied services (Annex L of the Directive list "Supply of software and updating thereof" inter alia) of a Non EU supplier is subject to VAT "at the rate of the country where the customer resides". That would ALWAYS be the country where the (private) customer has residency.
Any transaction of a EU based supplier to a (private) customer inside the EU is ALWAYS subject to the VAT of the country where the SUPPLIER resides.

So the only situation in which the "Information about VAT" would make sense is the one in which all sales to Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, and UK are made by a business entity that is located in any EU member state while all the sales to the other EU countries are made by a different business entity that is located outside the EU."

So, since last year (July 1st), Non-Eu based suppliers ARE bound to charge VAT. If you talk about the question, if they can be ENFORCED to do so ... well, that's another question. Sorry to say that, but it seems that the thesis of your wife was beaten by the European legislator [;)]

Chuck

The directive does not state that it is the obligation of the non-EU supplier to collect the VAT. It only says the transaction is subject to VAT. It is the resident of the EU country that has to pay the VAT. Thus if I am a resident of an EU country and buy a book at Amazon.com in the US, it is up to me to pay VAT when the package goes through customs. Same for software, no matter what the transmission method. The legal domain of the EU cannot go beyond its borders.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: rawink

I made some new friends!!!

Glad we made you happy [:'(]