Does anyone else find this as odd

[herbieh]

Ya all wrong
They went to germany for the beer
And the big girls dressed in leather
And the suakerat
And to escape these forums

And for the beer.

Who'd want to come back, release the patch, then in 2 minutes it will be give us 1.4

No wonder the beer looks so attractive.[:D]

[canuck64]

You know, this forum (and most of the matrix games forums) is about the most reasonable, at least quasi-intelligent forum I've been party to over the years.

Hats off to you all, I'm tickled that the game draws in people who can spell, chew gum, express contentious opinions and get dirty looks from the g/f or wife, all the while ALT-TAB ing back and forth to the Pacific....

I think Matrix should hire us all, and be done with it.

[:D]

[canuck64]

To just add here, if Matrix DID hire us....

Of course, I'd need a raise, post-haste. Especially with all this torment over a patch, while my sad butt is stuck here, and the boys are off to germany with the Fraus and Bier....

They should at least send us courtesy steins with girls in lederhosen (or partially)

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: fbastos

Are you people really this "limited"???

I have a roughly a 7% stake in two polyester fillament spinning mills in South Carolina. I have about 30,000 shares in form of options in a software firm I happen to currently work for. I don't "own" anything. I have "investment stakes" in a LOT of things. If you cannot comprehend the difference, then I have no time for your idiocy.

Lol, you are a worker like the rest of us... [:D]... you can't really advise how Gary Grisby and Matrix Games do business, can you? "Universal Axioms" and all that?

For a moment you got me thinking if Matrix made a mistake on allowing them guys to go to their show. But now I agree with you on just one point: yeah, I'm kind limited.

I try to compensate that by being educated.

F.

Yea, I work. I like to work. I am somwhat successful. My married well, too, which helps. I like business. I have owned a lot of small businesses over the years from computer stores, to laundrymats, to sportings good franchises, to commodity brokerage firms. I sit on the Boards of Directors of two local Savings and Loans and one credit union. My wife is on the board of a major health insurer. I know business large and small. I like software. Love computers. And I adore wargaming. Six year veteran of the Cold War flying RC-135s. Eight Air Medals to show for it. Damn near shot down in the Gulf of Sidra in 1981. Lots of life experience to draw on. I know what I pontificate about. Military or otherwise. Know a lot about what works and what doesn't.

The subtle signals one sends by their actions, speak volumes. Matrix needs to keep that in mind in the future....

[Tanaka]

uggg and sigh...

im not saying anyone is right or wrong here...

im not trying to bait anyone...

and im no fanatic....

...just a very satisfied customer

please quit reading too much into posts. im just stating how i feel about me. no one else.

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: canuck64

Took me what feels like a long time on this earth's crust to get to the point of working with what feels right....not getting stuck too long on what's wrong...

Optimism in endeavour is the thing that strikes most readers about anything written by Einstein, Hawking, etc...so I'm not way out in left field here (well I am, but what the hell...)
Basically, at the end of the day, I'm happy we got an update about a patch. I'm delighted that there's a niche market with at least one company willing to satisfy my need to move beans, bullets and beer around some hexes.

One final note about business in america. I grant you I'm a guest here from a foreign land, but I've seen in recent times the absurdity of doing business here (Enron, Tyco, etc etc etc), so I'm thinking that whatever business tautologies are out there, it's time they got reworked. Tried and true don't cut it-because the people who do the work, not manage people-in other words the brains of the outfit, get screwed continually.
Meanwhile some dopey sh*t with a belly and no hair retires with 500 million and screws the investors. Happens constantly. So let's put the delay in patch and personnel management in its proper focus....?

Wow. My soapbox is boring even me....hahaha.
[>:]

Obviously a victim of headline myopia. Yea Ken is a crook. MOST, in fact, almost ALL, DON'T get screwed. Bottom line, is the average American worker is damned happy with his/her lot. And he doesn't get to go to German trade shows.

Matix needs to balance the picture here. EVERYBODY, doesn't have to go to EVERY trade show. And the user community should damned well be OUTRAGED if they conintue to do so. Maybe they all should go to SOME some show, but what's wrong with rotating it? I NEVER will buy this trade show CRAP. Sorry, it just lacks any connection with ANYTHING remotely logical.

[Belce]

I think I understand better Zoomie, you love this hobby and want to see more like this and support the game.

You think the lack of putting out a patch asap is problem because its unproffessional and will affect new adherents more so than us, "its a Gary" crowd.

I really think that this situation comes down to Matrix telling GG that we will publish your PacWar deluxe with other games like WaW in exchange for you helping us sell them aboard where you might not be so well known as here, hence the tradeshow commitment. So what we have here is conflict between providing the support to put out a patch vs the contractual requirements of Matrix to support published and pending published product at tradeshows in this case. Matrix is applying your business practice model to its current and future products here.

I think that when the patch was finished they thought they could get it out with developers out of town, but then found out it wasn't possible. They would not have put forward details and such about it otherwise. Much easier overall if they can post, the patch is up, here is the changes like every other software company and till ready say it isn't. They made an error indicating the patch was ready and that it had to wait for the developers to package first.

[Tanaka]

Matix needs to balance the picture here. EVERYBODY, doesn't have to go to EVERY trade show. And the user community should damned well be OUTRAGED if they conintue to do so. Maybe they all should go to SOME some show, but what's wrong with rotating it? I NEVER will buy this trade show CRAP. Sorry, it just lacks any connection with ANYTHING remotely logical.

Here I will agree with you. If this happened frequently I would not be happy. But because they have always given such great support Im willing to be patient this time around. Hopefully this wont happen again and I would be shocked if it did.

[ZOOMIE1980]

I just want to see the guys excercise some sound judgement and balance in wha they chose to do.

It just doesn't make a great deal of sound business sense to reveal that you have a patch to arguably their most significant body of work, to date, ready to go, but because ALL the people who know anything at all about how to get that patch ready for delivery are off galivanting in Europe, it is delayed until they get back???????

To "understand" that is nothing more than blind homerism. Sorry, just too hardened by the hard knocks of nasty business tactics to ever buy that polyanish nonsense.

I guess my bottom line to Matrix, is to simply grow up.

[Belce]

Zoomie,

People here really don't care what you have done, do and will do in real life. This is an internet message forum and nothing more and its about a game. Its all about what you put in your posts and nothing more. If it can't stand then claiming to be whatever of whatever won't fix it. And to be honest you have some valid points to raise outside of "I am a goomba in the real world."

[ZOOMIE1980]

OK, you got me. What's a "goomba"? Beyond my limited cultural context, I'm afraid....although I'm sure it applies....

[Belce]

I think they made a mistake about announcing the patch when they did. Perhaps they thought they could do it remotely, but were mistaken. Imean when the news was released it was "here are the changes, patch soon" followed by "oh, our guys that package the thing can't do it, but can after the 25th."

They made a mistake.

They really thought they could do it, acted like they could do it, but couldn't. They knew the patch was ready, what it addressed and made it known prior to it being available. Next time the patch will be waiting on the servers for download prior to announcement, if you have good hacking skills, you may get it early.

[ZOOMIE1980]

OK. Think I got it.

PR is a something "mom and pops" seem to have the most difficulty with as they grow. Wonder if Joel is kicking himself for be so "forthcoming". Hope they learn something from this episode. Even if it's "don't reveal anything to Zoomie...."

[Belce]

"Yea, I work. I like to work. I am somwhat successful. My married well, too, which helps. I like business. I have owned a lot of small businesses over the years from computer stores, to laundrymats, to sportings good franchises, to commodity brokerage firms. I sit on the Boards of Directors of two local Savings and Loans and one credit union. My wife is on the board of a major health insurer. I know business large and small. I like software. Love computers. And I adore wargaming. Six year veteran of the Cold War flying RC-135s. Eight Air Medals to show for it. Damn near shot down in the Gulf of Sidra in 1981. Lots of life experience to draw on. I know what I pontificate about. Military or otherwise. Know a lot about what works and what doesn't."

You have a valid right to proud of your life and your achievements, none of this has anything to do with the patch or any of your points raised here on this thread and none of the above diminshes the points raised against your arguments. The above statement is as important to this discussion as you telling us how well you can tie a fly for fishing.

And thank you for flying recon, am sure alot of people are in your debt for your timely info. My Dad flew Mosquitos in WW2.

[Jim D Burns]

Actually the patch didn't get to Matrix in time, the announcement was based on their assumption they'd get it by x date and they didn't. I bet they never announce another thing to us after this thread, which is too bad; I prefer to be informed and frustrated than in the dark and frustrated any day.

There are maybe 4 or 5 trade shows each season and they are planned for a year or more ahead of time. Matrix thought the patch would get to them in time to upload it before they left, but it was late, so they didn't have time to get it ready. No big deal in my book, and I think most others agree with me as well. Trade shows are very important in the niche gaming markets, Zoomie's snide dismissal of their importance simply points to his lack of understanding the nuances of the industry in question.

I think Zoomie needs to take a chill pill and visit the Caribbean or something for some much needed R&R. WitP isn't Matrix's best product from a sales standpoint by far, but since it's Zoomie's favorite game he's attaching far to much importance on the need to release a timely patch. I'll bet from a numbers standpoint it's one of the smaller titles as far as unit sales go. The Steel Panther titles and SSG's games probably sell far more units than WitP can ever hope to sell.

I'm not going to pull out a yardstick and start measuring Johnsons or anything, suffice it to say I have far more experience in the Wargaming industry than Zoomie does I think. I'm also quite knowledgeable about real world investing and corporate business practices, you simply can't apply that reality to a niche software producer who can barely afford to keep their doors open; they'd be bankrupt in a week.

Jim

[khelvan]

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980
Again, I don't give a DAMN if Matrix is just THREE people. YOu don't send ALL THREE to trade show with distributable product ready to go needing only installation bundling done.... AGain, HOW MANY does it REALLY take at a trade show to man the booth and maybe take in a seminar or two???? The whole damned critical mass of the company???

Still not buying....

Bah, it isn't worth it. Zoomie, one would think after "owning" all those "successful" businesses, you would have learned to communicate with respect and tact. I can't imagine a business owner choosing to communicate in this fashion.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980
It just doesn't make a great deal of sound business sense to reveal that you have a patch to arguably their most significant body of work, to date, ready to go, but because ALL the people who know anything at all about how to get that patch ready for delivery are off galivanting in Europe, it is delayed until they get back???????

Well Matrix just announced they signed a deal with Slitherine to publish Gates of Troy. Yup sure must be a lot of galivanting going on over their. [8|]

Jim

[rtrapasso]

It seems to me that the problem may be that we have two separate companies working not quite in tandem.

If I have this right 2x3 made the patch, but Matrix has to make the extractor part and distribute it.

Now, I think probably that 2x3 was aiming to have the patch done by a certain date. They tell Matrix and Matrix says ok and schedule resources for the release. Then it is delayed. Then it is delayed again. And maybe again. Then 2x3 sends out the patch, thinking Matrix will finish its part and a release date is announced. Matrix then realizes that certain key personal are scheduled to be out of the country, probably something that had been scheduled months in advance, and that they have already shelled out money for. How many people are actually needed? Who knows? Maybe it's just one person, maybe more. Maybe these same people are needed to meet with someone at the trade show to firm up a deal or get some key information (or recruit someone) that only they can do.

Heaven help us, maybe they are meeting with investors who want to drop big projects like WITP, and the prospective investors don't want anything done until they have a meeting.

But in Matrix's opinion, they are not going to get a dime more for rescheduling everything, and may incur a loss, so why should they try when they probably had several of their deadlines missed? This is just 1/28 or so of their product line. In fact, we really don't know what the whole story is. I noticed somewhere else that the patch is delayed now beyond October, so there is apparently another glitch in the system somewhere. Maybe more patching is being done by 2x3...

The point is we really don't know the whole story about this (I doubt we will ever know) so maybe we should be a bit more understanding.

[strawbuk]

Sheesh, I thought the Z man had mellowed based on recent threads. Apparently not.

Fab to hear from you as ever but;
a. go do it on 'friends reunited'
b. yeah we are all unthinking Matrix fanboys - just look at teh lack of critcial traffci on this forum re game design decisions. Could it be that be because nobody else is making any grongards games anything like WITP etc?
c. Yes we should moan about accuracy in the games
but
d. How to help make matrix go bust and not have anything like WITP ever? Bitch about the game in general (not specifics), question thieir businesss practice, level of support etc etc. Sure it really helps potential game buyers and any investors.

But what do I know, I have neither flown a jet nor written a PC application. I do look forward to reading your MBA dissertation (on different forum).

[donkuchi19]

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

I just want to see the guys excercise some sound judgement and balance in wha they chose to do.

It just doesn't make a great deal of sound business sense to reveal that you have a patch to arguably their most significant body of work, to date, ready to go, but because ALL the people who know anything at all about how to get that patch ready for delivery are off galivanting in Europe, it is delayed until they get back???????

To "understand" that is nothing more than blind homerism. Sorry, just too hardened by the hard knocks of nasty business tactics to ever buy that polyanish nonsense.

I guess my bottom line to Matrix, is to simply grow up.

The problem you are having zoomie is that you are coming off as a know-it-all. I have done everything and know the right way to do everything. This isn't a criticism, just an observation based on 'tone' and stuff like that. You have your right to post your thoughts. People have their right to agree or disagree. You can post all of your abilities and qualifications and all that will do is give others more of a 'know-it-all' perception of you.

As for me, I am waiting for the patch. I would have liked it earlier but oh well. I still have a great game to play. I support matrix because of the games they publish, and the support they give. I am happy with the support. It seems to me that Matrix must be doing something right with customer service with all the support I see here for sending the staff off. Most people accept what Matrix says and go with it. You can disagree with their business practices, but I see a lot of loyal customers forming a tremendous customer base. I have already purchased 2 Matrix titles and am looking forward to several more. I hope with that type of support, Matrix will last a long time to keep my wargaming habits satisfied.