ORIGINAL: Yoozername
The CM model of shoot and scoot (one round) is not what I am arguing for. But advancing forward, firing a few rounds, and then withdrawing (typically to then get to another position) is a WWII tactic. Especially in terrain that allows you to do so.
I think the whole debate is if a vehicle could be tasked with moving forward, shooting, and then withdrawing in the same orders phase. And as I have already said, it would be a rare occurance. But firing in the orders phase, even after a short move, and then withdrawing in the reaction phase (a form of shoot and scoot mind you) IS a WWII occurance.
Now back to people flip-flopping and trying to put words in others mouths...
Well, then let's run this one by you again:
ORIGINAL: Yoozername
From Armor Battles of the WaffenSS..pg. 166 (TigerI)
The commander as always gave precise instructions:
"Panzer-halt! Radio Operator MG-open fire on infantry targets! Antitank Shell-tank farthest to the right-400 Fire!"
{Analysis: I bet these terse direct commands could be relayed in seconds. In game terms, the vehicle is committed to firing. But I doubt that it would take that long to fire 3 - 4 AT rounds once the target is engaged}
Our first shell was wide, but the second hit the center of the rear, probably the engine compartment. After a few seconds a mushroom cloud of smoke billowed from the tank. Our shell had ripped the tank around at full speed. Its front and and the gun were pointed at us, but no shell came out. Two HE shells stopped bail outs.
{Analysis: 4 shots to handle this vehicle. I am amazed that they would fire HE in the midst of battling tanks. They are taking on a Canadian platoon of tanks by the way. The other Canadian tanks are moving as we will see. Obviously, the German does not view moving enemy tanks as a threat. I would put the whole sequence at 25-35 seconds.}
The second tank was in the gunsight of the gunner. "Same distance-aim ahead of it! Fire!" It too took the hit at full speed to the side. The third and fourth tanks stopped and opened fire on us.
{Analysis: This shows the extreme accuracy of these guns. Especially once a target/area is aquired. The second tank appears to only get one shot into it. I would put the German tank into 'reaction' phase timeline by now.}
But as their first shells were going by us, they quickly rolled backwards out of our field of vision into a gully.
{Analysis: This realistic example shows the 'tacAI' type behaviour of counter-fire and reaction I would like to see. The use of reverse by the 'morale' model. The platoon has been halved and it is in dire straits. Similarly, I would like the player to command this reverse also. With some added effects. By doing so, the platoon becomes out of command and control or some other 'drama'.}
Finale!
We fired some more on the Canadians, retreating hastily, with the turret MG and explosive shells and then joined the departing vehicles of the staff at slow speed backward across the hill just before Eraines.
{Analysis: Here we see again reverse movement on both the canadian and German part during a battle. The German is reversing AND firing.}
So, which one of these is correct? The poster can't have it both ways. It's got to be one or the other.
PoE (aka ivanmoe)
