2x3+ Team Side Game - BOTH SIDES

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Zorch
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Zorch »

ORIGINAL: Beria
ORIGINAL: Zorch
I note with concern the absence of Marxist-Leninist language from the Front Commanders messages... Please ensure that our commanders do not need to be re-assigned to labor camps for re-education.

We have this covered
Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
lets be sure to delete this conversation before Stalin reads it
: P

So let's just keep this between you and me, the players of the game, readers of the AAR, random google searches showing this as a result ....
Did someone mention capital crime?

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Beria
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Beria »

All Python fans will know they miss!
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Beria
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Beria »

T029 Soviet Intel
Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
the Mountain divisions are still at Rostov, I believe they won't send the panzer divisions out until after January, however, the Great tambov encirclement can change that


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Telemecus
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Telemecus »

Yay you got them right this time. No more recording that unit on the Baltic as being on the Black sea coast! I say them though? There are very few are there not? You do not know where one panzer division is at? I would not call that intelligence so much as lack of intelligence [:D]
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Zorch
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Zorch »

Comrade Beria!

Your efforts as C-in-C are inadequate. Redouble your zeal by recalling how I saved the revolution at Stalingrad when all seemed lost. I hold you personally responsible in these matters.

Find the counter-revolutionary bourgeois spies who are sabotaging the great socialist workers war struggle and punish them. We authorize the immediate summary dispensing of revolutionary justice to all enemies of the state. Front and Army leaders whose loyalty in any way questioned are urged to volunteer for punishment battalions.

Take appropriate action against capitalist provocateurs who spread lies about the mighty and victorious Soviet armed forces. The nest of fascist invaders at Tambov must be liquidated no later than tomorrow. Report to me in person when this is done. On to Berlin!

Party Secretary Stalin

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joelmar
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by joelmar »

hooo... That hurts... Nicely done Soviets... but... Don't fret... revenge will come!!! ;-)
"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio
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Beria
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Beria »

ORIGINAL: Zorch
Comrade Beria!

Your efforts as C-in-C are inadequate.

I am well and truly passing the buck as Neogodhobo is C-in-C until the end of blizzard [:D]
ORIGINAL: Zorch
Report to me in person when this is done.

I think I will phone in. [:D]
ORIGINAL: Zorch
Party Secretary Stalin
So Ioseb Djugashvili gets the nom de crime of Koba which they cover up with the nom de guerre of Stalin which they now cover up with the nom de plume of Zorch?
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Zorch
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Zorch »

ORIGINAL: Beria
ORIGINAL: Zorch
Comrade Beria!

Your efforts as C-in-C are inadequate.

I am well and truly passing the buck as Neogodhobo is C-in-C until the end of blizzard [:D]
ORIGINAL: Zorch
Report to me in person when this is done.

I think I will phone in. [:D]
ORIGINAL: Zorch
Party Secretary Stalin
So Ioseb Djugashvili gets the nom de crime of Koba which they cover up with the nom de guerre of Stalin which they now cover up with the nom de plume of Zorch?
Your resignation as C-in-C is accepted by the Party. Instead, you will conduct a close personal inspection of Siberian camps.
The new C-in-C has arrived.

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Beria
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Beria »

ORIGINAL: Zorch
The new C-in-C has arrived.

Not according to the big boss in the sky (AKA Mr Grigsby)




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Zorch
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Zorch »

ORIGINAL: Beria
ORIGINAL: Zorch
The new C-in-C has arrived.

Not according to the big boss in the sky (AKA Mr Grigsby)




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New orders have been issued. For immediate execution.

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Telemecus
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Telemecus »

From Russia with Love I believe?

(INP!!!)
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Zorch
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Zorch »

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

From Russia with Love I believe?

(INP!!!)
With bullets. [:D]
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Telemecus »

T030 Start Axis Tambov
Telemecus, Axis Supreme Commander
The Tambov pocket is back again, they are even forcing the retreats back to the city of Tambov. So breaking out and slowly retreating is no longer an option it has to be stand hard or run. It is 1942, so CVs have gone up

On Tambov the options are
- RUN: We will lose the equivalent of an infantry division, the French volunteers, a security regiment and the Gross Deutchsland regiment. GD will come back anyway to at least base 95 morale in 1942 and upgrade to a division, so our only permanent losses are the manpower and equipment. The infantry are all ToE 50% or below and at or below national morale. So yes not great to lose - but if we write them off it would still be a quite typical Axis blizzard
- RESCUE AND FIGHT HARD:There are a few CV2s and then a CV4 but with a cavalry corps in the way. We have lots of infantry and also two motorised divisions at Voronezh. With SUs, ground support and some thought we probably could break back in. However the units in Tambov will only be able to move one hex west and our Soviet opponents have shown they can create an eastwards retreat. Assuming we do not want to fill Tambov with the security regiment and HQs we should expect them to retreat back into Tambov every turn. So a rescue only makes sense if we continue to do this every turn - and that means we have to concentrate in the area faster than they do. It does mean we are playing to the Soviets tune - although time is now more in our hands. In addition they still have lots of cavalry closing in from north of their and we are very weak there.

Lictuel - glad to see you back - and sorry stilla big decision for you to make on fight or run for the Tambov units!

Situation at the start of Axis Turn 30
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Telemecus, Axis Supreme Commander
Spent last night looking at the Tambov pocket and considering our options.

First of all here are the units that are in danger of being lost with the men and equipment they retain

1st Rgt 134 Infantry 1278 men 11 guns 8 vehicles
2nd Rgt 134 Infantry 850 men 15 guns 8 vehicles
3rd Rgt 45 Infantry 2912 men 31 guns 24 vehicles
French Volunteers 1598 men 13 guns 9 vehicles
1st Rgt 444 Security 1440 men 12 guns 5 vehicles
GD regt 4566 men 44 guns 272 Vehicles 6 AFVs

In total I make this to be 12354 men 126 guns 326 vehicles 6 AFVs - in short about the equivalent of a reduced division.

Interestingly last turn these units lost 2000 men being forced to retreat back into the Tambov pocket - and took 700 Soviets with them doing it. Clearly if we are going to lose the men in the pocket anyway then taking as many Soviets with them is the way to do it. Even if we continue to break into the pocket and they continue to force them to retreat back into it every turn, eventually they will lose as many men as they would have done from surrendering (although with the Soviet casualties too) - and will probably rout or shatter some time instead of retreat.

In terms of formations all these units will return and by the start of the summer campaign be at the same morale and experience as they would have been. Gross Deutschland regiment will have to take in all the recruits for becoming a division anyway by then. They will be absent for the mud periods (when they will probably not be used anyway) and for the remainder of the blizzard (which they are requiring rescue from rather than helping in). There is no special reason why we need to rescue these units over and above the men and material they contain.

The other side of the equation is how much we are losing in rescuing the units. Last turn I estimate we lost between 1,000 and 2,000 more men than we would have done because of rescuing the units in the pocket - although the Soviets also had more losses. Any rescue this turn would likely need more units and include more losses. We would need to counter attack and take back hexes from the cavalry pincers to the north and south of the pocket to make sure the rescuers do not become part of a bigger pocket. And concentrate many more units there.

So by my reckoning there is no longer a decisive reason to rescue or not rescue the units remaining in the pocket. The men and material left to be saved is not very substantial and much of it would be lost in a few turns of fighting to escape anyway. On the other hand we are losing more men and material in other units fighting to save them. So personally I would be quite comfortable with the decision to fight on to rescue them, or to abandon them. There are indeed several options in between - for example breaking them out of isolation this turn or more turns just so they die taking as many with them before they surrender/rout/shatter etc.
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Telemecus
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Telemecus »

Crackaces, Axis North Commander
Hmmm the Wiki entry will not look too good for us J [Radio speech to isolated units] “We have looked at the CV of all the units in the Tambov pocket and the risks of saving all you 1’s & O’s from torture and starvation are not worth it. Therefore we have decided to allow the Soviets to crush you where you will be recycled ..”

Of course after the war we will blame Timmy … J
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by redrum68 »

Seems like the bigger question is whether the larger pocket is a real threat or not? If it is then I'd just abandon the pocketed units and pull back to a new line. If it isn't then there really isn't much drawback to opening it each turn if you have the strength to and slowly retreating them as long as that isn't requiring too large of a force commitment that either should be rested or are needed elsewhere. Its hard to tell looking at the screenshot as it doesn't show CVs but Soviet advancement would seem to indicate they have the upper hand given how they've pushed forward and that the Germans would need to commit more forces here to even hold the current position.
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M60A3TTS
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by M60A3TTS »

ORIGINAL: Zorch
New orders have been issued. For immediate execution.

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But this can't be!!! I saw Colonel Hessler die when the fuel drum rolled under his tank at the American fuel depot!!! [&:]

The whole thing must have been faked by the NKVD to cover up his defection.
Zorch
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Zorch »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
ORIGINAL: Zorch
New orders have been issued. For immediate execution.

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But this can't be!!! I saw Colonel Hessler die when the fuel drum rolled under his tank at the American fuel depot!!! [&:]

The whole thing must have been faked by the NKVD to cover up his defection.
You must be a tool of capitalist stooges propaganda.

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Zorch
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Zorch »

Meanwhile, Der Fuhrer has ordered 'not one step back'.

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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by Telemecus »

T030 End Axis Tambov

And with the order of not step back given, the Axis abandon the Tambov pocket and take several steps back.

Situation at the end of Axis Turn 30

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No counterattacks on the cavalry or strengthening of the flanks takes place though.
ORIGINAL: redrum68
Seems like the bigger question is whether the larger pocket is a real threat or not?

+1
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joelmar
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RE: 2x3+ 025-037 Tambov

Post by joelmar »

Sorry Der Fuhrer, eat your heart out!!!

+1
"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio
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