How does the intel reports work?

[Pergite!]

I got a scare just now in the "NZ strikes back" scenario. When the sun came up on day two some of my units started reporting in Armoured unit. "Cruiser" (if I recall correctly) tanks where slowly advancing towards my tired jägers. The reports where not excellent, but a tank is a tank... at least that was what I thought and made my AT detachments skip their breakfast and instead hurried around hill 107 to do some panzer knacking.

My concern is that these armoured units turned out to be pure infantry units, so how wild imagination does my well trained troop have? What models these vauge intel reports? Prison detatchments gets reported as bridging units? etc.

Its a great feature now knowing exactly what you are facing, but is there really any restrictions for the soldiers imagination to interpret what they see?

[Arjuna]

The nature of the intel report varies with its reliability. Unreliable ones may in fact report something different in type to what is actually there. As strange as this may sound to you WW2 was replete with such reports. Units would report tanks if they heard a vehicle hauling an AT gun. The tendency was often to report something bigger and more powerful. A natural tendency fueled by the fear of battle and a lack of combat experience.
 
We try and filter out report options but it may time to review these again for BFTB.
 
TT3058 - AI - Intel Reports - Review filtering options

[Jakerson]

War is chaotic and quality of intelligence has always been a big problem. Do you think that Operation Market Garden would have been ever started if Paratroopers would have known that there are two SS Panzer divisions next to bridges they are supposed to take and hold?

[Arjuna]

Yeh sure, why not. First off they did know and Monty said go anyway. Second they were much reduced with very few AFVs, Third, I would have landed much closer to the bridge at Arnhem.

[cabron66]

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

War is chaotic and quality of intelligence has always been a big problem. Do you think that Operation Market Garden would have been ever started if Paratroopers would have known that there are two SS Panzer divisions next to bridges they are supposed to take and hold?

They only had to hold those bridges for, what was it, 3 days or less? I don't remember exactly, but it was supposed to be such a short time that those two panzer divisions would be dealt with by the guards armoured before much damage could be done. Yet another example of the Western Allies badly underestimating the Germans.

Although Gene Hackman did the worst Polish accent ever, I loved the scene in A Bridge Too Far where they lay out the plan for the divisional commanders and he asks "What about the Germans?" Perfect. I can so imagine everyone looking around uncomfortably just hoping the pesky pole would stop asking questions.

Cheers

Paul

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: cabron66
I can so imagine everyone looking around uncomfortably just hoping the pesky pole would stop asking questions.

That pesky Pole would later be made the scapegoat for the whole sad affair.

Life's definitely not fair

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Baskaatje]

In the German 1940 "Market Garden" version (capture three bridges to race the panzers to The Hague), the Germans dropped their para's directly on top of the bridges and in Rotterdam send in a small number of Heinkel He-70 floatplanes with troops to capture the bridges in the heart of the city! And it worked.

Bas

And BTW, the Poles just this year finally received the Militaire Willemsorde (highest decoration for bravery in Holland, the VC or MoH equivalent) for their actions, a bit late, but anyway...............

[Pergite!]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

The nature of the intel report varies with its reliability. Unreliable ones may in fact report something different in type to what is actually there. As strange as this may sound to you WW2 was replete with such reports. Units would report tanks if they heard a vehicle hauling an AT gun. The tendency was often to report something bigger and more powerful. A natural tendency fueled by the fear of battle and a lack of combat experience.

We try and filter out report options but it may time to review these again for BFTB.

TT3058 - AI - Intel Reports - Review filtering options

Has the troop quality anything to do with the accuaracy of contact reports being sent?

The uncertanty is overall a good feature and I know from experience exactly how strange things that can get reported, as well as how no sleep and no food rather soon really starts to play tricks with your mind.
I have during my career so far spent almost one hour in the middle of the night aiming at a small tree while my partner crawled around it so he could dispose of it silently. I have also witnessed a college giving fire missions to a small tree in the middle of the night, and getting pissed because it didnt start transmitting the coordinates in a timely manner... and this was in peace time [8|]


And yes, it would have been a nightmare to be in the shoes of Sosabowski during the planning and execution of the Market Garden operation. I cant belive that they made him take the blame for that big screw up.
Bio on Major General Stanislaw Sosabowski

[Jakerson]

ORIGINAL: cabron66

They only had to hold those bridges for, what was it, 3 days or less? I don't remember exactly, but it was supposed to be such a short time that those two panzer divisions would be dealt with by the guards armoured before much damage could be done. Yet another example of the Western Allies badly underestimating the Germans.

Although Gene Hackman did the worst Polish accent ever, I loved the scene in A Bridge Too Far where they lay out the plan for the divisional commanders and he asks "What about the Germans?" Perfect. I can so imagine everyone looking around uncomfortably just hoping the pesky pole would stop asking questions.

British paratroopers had to hold bridge without artillery, without anti-tank weapons and without supplies and their radios didnt work making communication virtually impossible inside and outside the division so British were totally cut off rest of the army.

There was just no planes to drop all stuff to British in at once and priority on the droppings was given to american divisions at south.

[Arjuna]

Jakerson,
 
First off the Brit 1st Abn Div had quite a lot of anti-tank guns - much more than the American Abn Divs. Moreover they had a lot of mortars too, 50% more allocation than the American Abn Divs. True their supply situation was poor, primarily because they overestimated the area they could secure and so put the supply drop zones too far away. They could have easily dropped the forces landing on Day 1 a lot closer than the 12kms where they historically dropped. If this force had moved in its entirity to secure the Arnhem bridge and occupt the city then I reckon they could have hold out there until the Gds Arm reached them.
 
Moreover, they could have done a double drop on Day 1 as they did at Salerno and D Day. This would have seen the bulk of the entire Div delivered within 24 hours. Sure it would have meant that the transport crews were fatigued and it probably would have resulted in some more transport aircraft losses but on the whole this would have been a small price to pay compared to the loss of a Division.

[Jakerson]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
Moreover, they could have done a double drop on Day 1 as they did at Salerno and D Day. This would have seen the bulk of the entire Div delivered within 24 hours. Sure it would have meant that the transport crews were fatigued and it probably would have resulted in some more transport aircraft losses but on the whole this would have been a small price to pay compared to the loss of a Division.

Or they could had used multiple crews loaned temporarily from other units for each transport plane surely some bomber pilots could have stayed away from bombing at drop day and lend a hand as extra transport pilots.

Even a night drop could have been possible with right arrangements if troops at land use radio contact witch planes and flame up beacons around drop zone just when transport planes come in so pilots could see from air borders of drop zone when drop is over just turn off beacons.