Between the ocean and the shore

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

I have noticed on some maps, that one hex will be ocean and the adjacent hex will be land.

Just want to make sure you folk know that if you make a map, you must place a shore hex between an ocean hex and a land hex or the path finding routine will become very confused.

Bye...

Michael Wood

[Big B]

Hi Mike - any map in particular you spotted an error on?

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

I have noticed on some maps, that one hex will be ocean and the adjacent hex will be land.

Just want to make sure you folk know that if you make a map, you must place a shore hex between an ocean hex and a land hex or the path finding routine will become very confused.

Bye...

Michael Wood

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

Every one I have looked at. Am currently playing (a highly modifed) CHS and the error is rampant.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Big B

Hi Mike - any map in particular you spotted an error on?

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

I have noticed on some maps, that one hex will be ocean and the adjacent hex will be land.

Just want to make sure you folk know that if you make a map, you must place a shore hex between an ocean hex and a land hex or the path finding routine will become very confused.

Bye...

Michael Wood

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood
I have noticed on some maps, that one hex will be ocean and the adjacent hex will be land.

Just want to make sure you folk know that if you make a map, you must place a shore hex between an ocean hex and a land hex or the path finding routine will become very confused.

Thanks Mike. I am already aware of this issue and a fix is pending for my map. There are a number of hexes that this applies to and I will be changing them back to coastal hexes for the next map update.

Andrew

[pad152]

Well this help or hurt the AI [&:]

One of the developers actually plays this game? Wow, I'm impressed! [;)]

[Nikademus]

hurt.....

Havn't seen a problem so far, but i'm only three weeks into an AB map game.

[BigJ62]

Hi, there appears to be 12 variables per hex in the pwhex.dat file although the 9th seems unused, if possible could you tell me what the 11th and 12th variables are for and in what way do they influence game play. For example 12th variable for stock version Perl Harbor is 13, San Fran is 14, S.D. 7, L.A. 8 and Sea. 10. The 11th variable seems to be always axis.

Thanks

[el cid again]

The RHS pwhex file is based on Andrew Brown's Extended Map. I do not specifically know how it relates to this issue - but the statement the problem is "rampant" in CHS is of some concern. I have reviewed the map for Philippines and Japan - and will now compare what it should be with what it is - hex by hex - in pwhex. IF there are ANY errors I will issue a new pwhex file - and then begin to review the other areas. Now there has been a lot of hex by hex revision for RHS - first by me - then by Cobra - and occasionally by others (WITPQs I think did a few). We might have got some of these matters addressed - since when I look at a hex I review ALL the fields - at least all that are defined for us to understand. A definition of fields 11 and 12 might be wise. Particularly now that Matrix is adding pwhex editing officially - can we be allowed to understand what it is we are doing?

[el cid again]

I have found few errors in RHS sectors examined. However, I have concluded that possibly we should be using the "atol" terrain type more often? In the Visaya's (this is from personal experience) even today the land you can use for any purpose is quite restricted - so the area of an island on the map is not an indicator of what is available for units to develop and exploit. Anyway, I have issued a new pwhex with corrections and what may be improvements in Japan and the Philippines. I will review other areas as time permits.

[tsimmonds]

I think you would call an island an atoll only if you wanted to force a landing there to make a shock attack.

[el cid again]

It is more complicated than that. An atol severely limits what can be present (land unit wise). And this is appropriate for certain places which are cut into the side of a larger island. Also, there are tiny islands which are not atols - but de facto they are about the same thing. An atol is a growth of corel on a sea mount - or in other shallow water - while an island is generally volcanic - but in some shallows it can just be silt which has got too shallow and things began to grow on it. When these are on the map - and particularly when they are defined locations - we don't want them treated like major bodies of land.

Someday we may have a different stacking rule. Right now the only stacking limit is on atols.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Right now the only stacking limit is on atols.

Is there any?

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Right now the only stacking limit is on atols.

Is there any?

Not that I am aware of...

[Sardaukar]

No such thing as stacking limits in this game...one can have all IJA/IJN or Allied military on one atoll if wishes so. Only limits are how big the base can be built, which restricts the amount of supplies that can be stored.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

I have noticed on some maps, that one hex will be ocean and the adjacent hex will be land.

Just want to make sure you folk know that if you make a map, you must place a shore hex between an ocean hex and a land hex or the path finding routine will become very confused.

Bye...

Michael Wood

Thank you Mr. Wood for your observation. This may explain why I've had some pathing problems in my CHS game. I've had a couple bases that refuse to move units more than one hex from them initially until the TF hits the high seas. Continued support like this is what I genuinely like about Matrix and WitP. Please keep up the great work!

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood
I have noticed on some maps, that one hex will be ocean and the adjacent hex will be land.

Just want to make sure you folk know that if you make a map, you must place a shore hex between an ocean hex and a land hex or the path finding routine will become very confused.

Thanks Mike. I am already aware of this issue and a fix is pending for my map. There are a number of hexes that this applies to and I will be changing them back to coastal hexes for the next map update.

Andrew

Thank God you still have the opportunity to work on your wonderful maps! I was very saddened to read your post about CHS. You've done a great job on it. I'm enjoying the game I'm in immensely (despite a few occasional tantrums when my planes miss a shot at sinking BB Revenge [:)])

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

No such thing as stacking limits in this game...one can have all IJA/IJN or Allied military on one atoll if wishes so. Only limits are how big the base can be built, which restricts the amount of supplies that can be stored.

This is what I really wished for by classifying a small island as an atol - restriction on base size and potential supply storage. Perhaps I should have not said "stacking limit." This is a better reflection of some places than "coastal land."
Also, I suspect the path finding routine may interpret "atol" as meaning "basically ocean" instead of "basically land" -
and in that sense it may help "open up" the crowded Visayas - which the routine likes to circle entirely rather than cross. I wish it to cross better.

[Sardaukar]

Aye. We'd not need "stacking limit" if atolls, atoll combat and atoll supply/building levels would be handled differently. That'd mean one *could* "overpopulate" an atoll but never could feed or store enough supplies for those troops.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood
I have noticed on some maps, that one hex will be ocean and the adjacent hex will be land.

Just want to make sure you folk know that if you make a map, you must place a shore hex between an ocean hex and a land hex or the path finding routine will become very confused.

Thanks Mike. I am already aware of this issue and a fix is pending for my map. There are a number of hexes that this applies to and I will be changing them back to coastal hexes for the next map update.

Andrew

Since I read this message from Mike the day I was leaving home for a trip half-way around the planet, I didn't have much time to respond, but now that I have a bit more time I will do so.

This pathing problem on my map became apparent a while ago. I have known about it for several months, after someone mentioned on this forum that they found one TF "stuck" in a swamp hex on the Sumatran coast. I tried to recreate the problem, but I could not. In all of my tests, the TFs I sent through the hex continued to move OK. While my testing could not recreate a TF becoming "stuck", I did notice that the program couldn't handle the fuel expenditure calculations for the TFs that moved into the affected hex, and this probably had someting to do with the problems reported by the other player.

I also realised that the problem was not due to a mistake in the map data, but to a change that I had deliberately introduced a while ago.

When I made version 4 of my map, I tried to manipulate the map data to prevent amphibious invasions in swamp hexes. Not that this was a huge problem with the game - I just wanted to see whether it was possible to do that. What I did was change coastal swamp hexes from "coast" hexes to either "land" or "ocean" hexes, in an attempt to prevent TFs from being able to enter one of these hexes and unload troops. I didn't test this very well, however, because an assumption I stupidly made regarding the game code - that naval units would not enter land hexes - turned out to be false. TFs CAN enter land hexes if they are able to move to that hex from an adjacent ocean or coastal hex through an ocean hexside.

The affected hexes are all coastal swamp hexes, mainly in Sumatra, Borneo and PNG, with a couple more in other places. Coastal swamp hexes containing bases were not changed in this way, to prevent problems with TFs using these bases. Only hexes without bases were modified.

I decided to change the map data back to the way it was for the coastal swamp hexes, but because there was only a single report of a problem, it wasn't at the top of my list of priorities for quite a while. Mike's post, however, has finally prodded me into action!

I have now changed all of the modified coastal hexes back to their original form, and I have created an updated set of map data files. These files can be downloaded and installed on top of version 6.2 of my map. There are updated files, available separately, for both the standard and extended maps. Eventually I will update the map package files and increase the map version number to 6.3, but in the meantime the updated map data files are available separately from my map web page.

There is a readme file included with the map data file, that explains how to install the file. Once installed, the updated files will take effect in any ongoing games using my maps. They should not have any effect on ongoing games, and there is no need to restart a game to start using the updated map data.

I hope that clarifies the issue. If there are any remaining land hexes adjacent to ocean hexes on my map (with the exception of a few hexes on the Alaskan coast representing glaciated terrain), then it is an error. If anyone spots one, please let me know so that it can be corrected.

Andrew

[timtom]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

Since I read this message from Mike the day I was leaving home for a trip half-way around the planet, I didn't have much time to respond, but now that I have a bit more time I will do so.

I take this to mean that you've arrived in our neck of the wood - in what case let me be the first to welcome you