total war

[daniel123]

the total war scenario does it allow a ussr vs wallies war?? the ussr does not attack and all the ussr areas are off limits.

[daniel123]

does anyone know if a ussr/wallies war is possible after germany and japan are defeate in the total war scenario?

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: daniel123

does anyone know if a ussr/wallies war is possible after germany and japan are defeate in the total war scenario?

Yes, after you exit the victory screen after Axis surrender, you will be offered a chance to continue the game as a SU vs WA game.

[daniel123]

i played the game to the end germany, the japan surrendered.  at the end of the video for the of japan, a victory screen did not appear.  i think it was because just before the ussr took berlin it invaded greece and the militia on crete went german.  the ussr then conquered german, but the militia on crete remained. the wallies went on then to conquer japan.

[daniel123]

i tried an experiment.  i reloaded a save germany had already surrendered, but the militia on crete had not gone german.  the wallies took cete before conquering japan.  the japan surrender video played, but still no victory screen.  i am at a loss of how to get a victory screen.

[neveS]

Same here.  I've played with the Russians and defeated Germany.  I then started attacking Japan and they quickly surrendered.  Unfortunately, with both Japan and Germany defeated I got no "Victory" but instead a stalemate  I tried it a second time thinking maybe this had to do with "Pro axis" neutral countries still existing and although I did a better job of capturing those prior to Japan's surrender, there were still some neutral axis leaning or pro axis countries in South America I hadn't got too... but really I don't see why i'd have too.  Germans + Japanese surrender should equal win no?  

[GKar]

The game has complex winning conditions which are explained in chapter 14 in the manual.

The moment of getting Germany and Japan to surrender plays a role, same for the highest number of "victory points" (production + areas) the Axis had during the game.

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: neveS

Germans + Japanese surrender should equal win no?  

As GKar noted, the answer is "not always". Gary (and most of the people that worked on the game) believe that WWII was not evenly balanced in that the Axis did not have as great a chance to win (by conquering their opponent) as the Allies did. Since we set out to make a historically realistic game, this presented us with the issue of how best to set up victory conditions to make a balanced game when the war was not balanced.

Our answer was to set up a goal for the Axis that one could argue, if met, would lead to a negotiated peace on terms favorable to the Axis. This is the Axis Automatic Victory rule. However, if this goal is not met, in order to give a good Axis player a chance for victory, we set up a system of victory based on how long the Axis could survive. This timetable is impacted by the German High Water Mark, so the better the Germans do early on, the less time they have to hold out to in the end. This encourages good German play in the early turns and an historical effort to try to win early instead of just retreating into a bunker and trying to hold out as long as possible. For those that have played Axis and Allies and define victory as crushing the other side, this may not seem satisfactory. However, given the incredible production capabilities of the Allies (US in particular), along with the manpower reserves of Russia, once the Allies survived the early days without giving up, it was only a matter of time before they defeated the Axis. So in all games there is a point where the Axis go on the defensive and are simply trying to make the war too costly on the Allies. You may disagree with our logic, but there it is.

[templeton]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
So in all games there is a point where the Axis go on the defensive and are simply trying to make the war too costly on the Allies. You may disagree with our logic, but there it is.

I think this is the case for all WW2 strategic games, excpet for Axis and Allies...

Thus your game follows best pracitce (if there can be such a thing in this context), and Axis and Allies does not.

In any case, as much as I love Axis and Allies, it's hardly a realistic simulation of the war in the same way that this game is.


I agree with your logic - the overwhelming conclusion of historians is that the Axis had a narrow window within which they had to win, after that time passed, their defeat was almost an inevitablity.

[wargameplayer]

Axis really are underdogs. I find myself trying to find little ways to make a conquest victory possibly. It seems like the best thing they can do and/or hope for is for more Axis members or fewer Western Allies or at least a later entry. The only other thing you can do is learn to be an expert in all the subtle functions of the save gave feature.

Even with an early take out of England (technically that would mean the war is actually over), the U.S. and Russia can prove to be pretty formidable. Even if you take out Russia the U.S. Economic multuplers make it a big hassle still. To recreate some of the “satisfaction” that is present in Axis and Allies a more independent minded US would really be required. Either one that didn’t get on a war footing as fast or possible didn’t enter the war at all.