Can't view combat

[32shaw]

Although I've set my game preferences up the same way as with my a world at war game, I'm unable to view combat like I could in a world at war. Once I click to start combat, the game goes directly to the combat results screen. Any advice? 32shaw

[Uncle_Joe]

Combat animations have been removed. If you want the reasoning behind it and the whole hoopla, read this thread:

tm.asp?m=1235035

[32shaw]

   I've noticed that my fleets sometimes expend 3 movement pts to move from one open ocean area to another and I can't figure out why.  For example: I had a WA heavy fleet and a WA light fleet start off in the open ocean surrounding Hawaii and had both fleets move in a westerly direction.  On their 1st move from one ocean area to the next one they each expended 2 movement pts., just as in WAW.  But on their next move to an adjacent ocean area they each expended 3 movement pts.  I also noticed that a heavy fleet which started in the ocean area off the west coast of the USA expended 3 movement pts on its 1st move to the ocean area just to the west of it.  At the least, this seems to be inconsistent.  Can you enlighten me here?  By the way, Uncle Joe, could you speed up your response time to my inquiries?  The last time I actually blinked twice before your answer was posted.  Never in my life have I received such great service!  You're amazing!  Thanks again.  32shaw

[Uncle_Joe]

Heheh, no problem.
 
If you move into an area that you dont have a friendly base (or adjacent to a friendly land territory), it costs +1 MP. The point was to try and encourage people to capture the island bases etc.
 

[32shaw]

Okay then, maybe this one will be tougher. For the life of me I can't figure out how hits are calculated on bombardment attacks. Even though my guys (WA) have higher net attack numbers then the enemies net defense numbers, they don't seem to score hits until the net attack number is twice the net defense number, and then they only score one hit. On the other hand, the computer controlled forces seem to score bombardment hits as soon as their net attack number equals the net defense number. I'm encountering this problem with seemingly all my bombardment attacks (i.e. by bombers, artillary and anti-aircraft units). I've tried looking at the bombardment evasion rolls to see if that might be the answer, but I'm only able to see how that factor affects the suppression of the attacking force. I've got this big WA air force, and it ain't doing much good.

I also think that the rule changes (assuming that I'm getting accurate attack results) have ahistorically drastically lessened the effectiveness of carrier air attacks. With the same raised levels of evasion and attack values for my carrier air units as I normally reached in WAW, I'm getting about 25-30% of the destruction of enemy fleets that I did in WAW. I've also noticed that my results in AWD come out way below what's been predicted by the combat analyzer.

Lastly, even when I had ground forces and fighters in French Indochina attack Japanese gound forces and light bombers in Malaya, there still wasn't any air to air combat. The Japanese light bombers attacked my WA land units without being attacked by my fighters. To be specific, there were 3 WA fighters and 2 Japanese light bombers. No other air units or anti-aircraft units were involved.

In WAW I was always able to accurately estimate the results of prospective combat, but I'm lost most of the time in the new game. Okay, it's the Guru's turn. 32shaw

[JanSorensen]

Bombardment attacks do not cause hits directy. Instead bombardment attacks cause suppresion - and once the suppresion on a given unit has reached 5 times the units durability this accumulated suppresion will cause a hit. Suppression wont cause a double hit. See section 8.3.4 in the rules. If you have a concrete attack that you cannot figure out then feel free to post it here or mail it to me to hopefully unravel.

Concerning carrier air I am not sure what would be causing that. Please mail me a save with a battle where you feel you are seeing this. A save both before and after the battle is best. (janbs@stofanet.dk)

Lastly, even when I had ground forces and fighters in French Indochina attack Japanese gound forces and light bombers in Malaya, there still wasn't any air to air combat. The Japanese light bombers attacked my WA land units without being attacked by my fighters. To be specific, there were 3 WA fighters and 2 Japanese light bombers. No other air units or anti-aircraft units were involved.
 
Thats indeed a somewhat unfortunate effect of what had to be done to avoid FTR sweeps being all powerfull in killing off defending bombers. It was felt that FTRs could far too easily clear away all enemy planes - including bombers - so it was decided that defending bombers should not take part in air-to-air combat over land. It was then argued that it would give some odd results when the attacker was actually trying to take the area by land as well - but in the end it was decided that if the attacker wants to prevent defending bombers from "working" then the attacker would need to clear those out using airfield attacks before the main attack. So, what you are observing is infact intended (even though its not very intuitive, I admit that, atleast not at first).

[32shaw]

Hi Jan. I think there's a problem with my game. Here's an example why: I sent 5 bombers and 3 light bombers (WA) against 1 AA and 1 tank (Germans). The end result? One damaged bomber, one damaged light bomber, and the AA was damaged (via automatic hit)! Although the suppression pts generated against the WA units were applied to those units in subsequent action during the battle, none of the suppression points generated against the German units were. So, for example, a bomber attack vs. the tank showed a red number 24 and a green number 5, with a white number 4 (the suppression number, right?) over an aircraft carrier on the far right of the line (why the aircraft carrier? There was none involved). But when another bomber then attacked that tank, the tank had no suppression number on it. In total, 7 bomber attacks resulted in higher red numbers than green numbers, with the appropriate white number (the red divided by the green) over an aircraft carrier on the far right of the line, but no suppression pts ever showed up on the German units when they were attacked a 2nd, 3rd or 4th time. I sure hope this indicates that there's a glich in my game and that it might be rectified by downloading again. Thanks, 32shaw

[JanSorensen]

32shaw,

The technical detail you are missing is from Section 8.3.4: [font=myriad-roman][left]Suppression Points are not added to the unit until the end of the Phase of combat in which[/left][left]the Suppression was inflicted.[/left][/font]

So, AA fire is done in one phase. After that the suppresion is added to the units fired upon.
Then Air-to-ground is done in another phase. The suppresion inflicted during this phase is not added till the end of the phase.
Thats why you are seeing the AA inflicted suppresion take effect during the combat while the air-to-ground suppresion does not. After the combat the german armor should show the total number of suppresion points that were inflicted upon it during the combat. This is per design.

Please mail me a save game showing the problem with the aircraft carrier  - preferably with a save just before and another just after the incident. I will be happy to take a look at it to determine what could be going on. My email is janbs@stofanet.dk

[32shaw]

    Okay, I finally get it.  Boy, the new rules have really reduced the value of tactical bombers, which were big favorites of mine in WAW.  I have in mind all those films from the war in France showing our planes roaming at will and knocking out any German armor that they encountered.  That was why the German armor was largely restricted to moving at night or in bad weather.  Maybe you should amend the rules so that fighters and tactical bombers can attack German armor, artillary and flak units with more effectiveness - without having to coordinate their attacks with attacking ground units.  As the rules stand, the only significant value of air to ground combat (normally, anyway) seems to be that the defending ground units will be already weakened by suppression when they are then attacked by enemy ground units in the same battle.  Do I have that right?
 
     With respect to the mysterious aircraft carrier in the combat results screen, I'm not clear on how to save that screen so I can email it to you.  The only "saving" that I've done with either game involves simply saving the last completed game turn.  I also redownloaded the game, so if that was a burp in my game system it may not show again.  Thanks again for all your help.  32shaw

[WanderingHead]

ORIGINAL: 32shaw
    Okay, I finally get it.  Boy, the new rules have really reduced the value of tactical bombers, which were big favorites of mine in WAW. 

They still have great value in supporting the Combined Arms Modifier, and especially in knocking out rail. They can also have great value in certain actions against small numbers of units, where cumulative suppression is a huge factor.

[32shaw]

    But Jan says (as I've seen) that the suppression pts resulting from air to ground combat don't get added on until the end of that attack phase, which means that small groups of land units can survive being ganged up on by air units, as long as they're not then attacked by land units in that same turn.  I still think that there should be a way for fighters and tactical bombers to directly damage tanks, artillary and flak units without having to combine their attacks with ground to ground attacks. That's the way it was in WWII.  32shaw 

[Uncle_Joe]

Bombardment attacks can and do kill units. But this scale, you should be seeing outright elimination of Division/Corps sized units. Suppression models the temporary damage done and the occasional actual 'kills' account for the rest.

[JanSorensen]

In some cases you can also send in your bombers one at a time. That way you *do* get the bonus from prior suppresion - but at the cost of allowing the defending flak to fire more often. So, sometimes thats a solution (primarily when the defender does not have AA units present).
 
The reason you are finding the new rules so odd is probably that planes were far too potent in killing land troops in WaW. As Uncle_Joe says - try using them more to bomb aiffields, gain CAM or to disrupt infrastructure.

[Twotribes]

Yup, I learned that. The Tac are great at airfield attack. You do though have to increase the range on them to be much use in the Pacific. 3 movement is good enough for short hops from island to island usually.

Japan is very aggressive with their airforce in the pacific BUT they are fixated on China with the ground forces.

The other thing I noticed is with the Soviets, wisely they do not try to hold the front line against the germans, keeping larger forces one province back to counter attack with. However when the war is clearly lost for Germany the Soviet advance is slowed down by this as they continue this practice even when Germany no longer has the means to seriously challange them anymore. Nice for me as the Allies, but self defeating for the Soviets. Not sure I want it changed though ).