Campaign For North Africa 40D-43

[m5000.2006]

the briefing says that if the Axis recapture Tobruk, they will get 25 VP bonus, i'm Commonwealth and now Tobruk belongs to the Axis and it is worth 50 VP

when i capture Tobruk i'll get 50VP, but what about the Axis? when they recapture it, will they get 25VP or 75VP (50+25) - i'm not sure about it

maybe someone who has played this scenario could help me?

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: m5000.2006

the briefing says that if the Axis recapture Tobruk, they will get 25 VP bonus, i'm Commonwealth and now Tobruk belongs to the Axis and it is worth 50 VP

when i capture Tobruk i'll get 50VP, but what about the Axis? when they recapture it, will they get 25VP or 75VP (50+25) - i'm not sure about it

maybe someone who has played this scenario could help me?

Possessing Tobruk is worth its 50 VP objective value. Whoever holds it has that VP total in his VP column - but he has to continue to hold it to continue to retain those VPs. They can switch back and forth between sides.

But the Axis also get a permanent, one-time, 25 VP award for recapturing it. They retain that even if they lose possession of it, unlike the on-map VPs. It's a "prestige" VP award.

[TOCarroll]

I understand you are the Commonwealth. What turn (date) is it. If the Axis gets Tobruk during Rommels First Offensive, you are in BIG trouble dude. I would be extermly interested in knowing 1) When the Axis took Tobruk and 2) HOW they did it. [&:]
 
I alway duplicate the sucess of the "historical Rommel". I kill lots of units, and the Brits send more. Kinda like the Germans in Russia. The only way I've been able to take Tobruk is to start the game at El Alimen!
 
It's a GREAT scenario, I just havent earned enough stripes yet. (Lack of experience).

[TOCarroll]

PS (TO CURTIS) I am not begging for more tactical advice![:)] I started to reply to the thread, but you got there first. (Of course, if you want to tell me how to take Tobruk, I will be discreet [:D]. Awsome scenario! I'm still butting my head against the nearest wadi (hey, who wants to get shot), trying to get to Tobruk fast enough to crack that mother.
 
To be fair, I am getting better, thanks to your kind advice.
 
Regards

[m5000.2006]

actually, the desert fox hasn't arrived yet, the italians have control of the city and i'm surrounding it, it is more or less turn 12
i asked the question becuase if the germans get this 25 VP bonus, then i'm not really sure if it makes sense to capture Tobruk, why?, the germans will probably recapture it when the desert fox arrives, the only result will be that i will lose 25 VP and a couple of units which i will have to leave in Tobruk to defend it

[SMK-at-work]

Tobruk is a great defensive position - if you don't hold it you will have nowhere to halt the German advance short of El Alamean IMO.
 
I'm up to T61 in this having started as a result of recent threads here & I was surprised about how fast the german advance is to Tobruk - fortunately they have arrived there in some disorder and I've surrounded and wiped out several leading battalians (2 armoured, 1 spt, 1 engineering, couple of Italian artillery), but the italian infantry is coming up fast too so we're set for a bit of a ding-dong! 
 
I have 2 Australian divisions, about half each of the 4th Indian and 70th Divisions there, plus remnants of the 2nd armoured.  The 7th Armoured is still struggling to get back there across the desert along with the Polish Brigade.
 
the Sth Africans have just started arriving in Egypt.
 
I've fortified pretty much every hex within 5-6 hexes of Tobruk, I've got most of XIII corps' and some of XXX corps' artillery there plus 2 BB's and a CA in the harbour under 3 Flak battalians - they are massacring SM79's every 3rd or 4th turn.  the Corps artillery all travels around in one stack and hits 1 hex with about 120 pts in an attack - it's a great force amplifier - primary targets are anythign except Italian infantry!!

[m5000.2006]

so you say it's a good idea to take the city...

will it really be so bad when the Germans arrive? [:(]

is it not possible to carry out a kind of mobile defence sucessfuly? the British do have a lot of armoured units, true, some of them will get pulled out, but still, there will be reinforcements

if i capture the city, i'll get stuck there with many units in a trench warfare - something i don't really like, those units will have to defend the city and i will have fewer units to deal with the Axis attacks in the south, and the germans may not try to capture the city but surround it and bypass it, then my units will rot inside, useless

[SMK-at-work]

No you haven't got a snowballs chance when the Germans arrive!! 
 
If you dont' capture Tobruk then your supplies are suspect in the first place - you need the port I think.
 
I completely wiped out the Italian army in the 1st campaign, but there's bucketloads more of them as reinforcements. 
 
Eventually you lose O'Conner & Rommel arrives, giving you ground and air shock penalties.  The German units are bigger and nastier than C'wealth ones of the same formation size, and they have more airpower.  There's nowhere to make a stand between Benghazi & Tobruk - you can try in the mountains but the Germans just motor across the Desert to the Sth of them straight to Tobruk.
 
I tried using the 2 armoured divisions (2nd and 7th), the 70th inf division, the Polish & 22nd Guards Brigade to fight a delaying action starting at teh major escarpments sth of Benghazi, but het Axis just go right around them - I could have left them in place to try to fight it out but I didn't like the odds of ever gettign them out at all!  As it was several units got left behind when they qwere reorging and hte rest of the formation bugged out, making for impromtu rearguards.
 
If you try to fight them south of Benghazi you will be tired and short on supply, he will be relatively fresh with a lot better supply than you.  If you fight at Tobruk you have the short supply lines, the advantage of the RN and are able to sea-lift units into and out of the town.
 
 

[m5000.2006]

so i have a dilemma now - attack or not attack...

[SMK-at-work]

I dont' think there's any choice - if he doesn't put enough units screening it then you can attack out of it, and if he has it then he has much better supply than if he doesn't!
 
It's not hard to defend with enough good forces - the high escarpment along the south pretty much channels any attacks so you know where they'er coming from , and you get some freebie forts when you capture it.

[m5000.2006]

ok, we'll see...


at the moment, i can't really say what i'll do beacuse my opponent may visit this forum [:)]



but i'll report when a couple of turns have passed

[m5000.2006]

ok, i've taken the city - turn 15

now i guess i'll fortify in it [:)]

just curious, does it make sense to fotify further away from Tobruk - Gazala seems to be a very good defensive position with badlands and superriver on one side, and major escarpment on the other, and there is a long major ascarpment running from Gazala to Tobruk

[TOCarroll]

Akk General Ritchie (8th Army Commander at the battle of Gazala) if it made any sense to fortify Gazala![:'(]
IMHO, the "fortifications" should be limited to a tight ring around Tobruk. A large perimiter (such as the Gazala Line) will have gaps that can be exploited.[:-] Tobruk is all thats needed to keep Fritz out of Eqypt.
 
By the way, in case you don't know, you Tobruk minefields will disappear ashotly before June, 1942. By then you may lose Tobruk, but should be able to defeat Rommel at Alimen, then smash him and send him back to Tripoli (In theory).[:)]
 
This is IMHO one of the best designed scenarios in the set. Hat off to Bob Cross![&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

[m5000.2006]

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll

Akk General Ritchie (8th Army Commander at the battle of Gazala) if it made any sense to fortify Gazala![:'(]
IMHO, the "fortifications" should be limited to a tight ring around Tobruk. A large perimiter (such as the Gazala Line) will have gaps that can be exploited.[:-] Tobruk is all thats needed to keep Fritz out of Eqypt.[..]

you're probabby right, i've just noticed that on turns 21 and 24, a large part of my forces will pull out - 6th Aus and 2nd NZ, so i won't have enough troops to fortify a large area, i will still need some units to attempt a sort of delaying action against the Axis, as some of their forces may move towards Egypt