New thread on BUGS!

[Manic Jester]

Started a new game last night Allies (Human Control), Japanese (Computer Control) with EVEN advantage setting, and here are some bugs that I've found.

1.) Early End Game, Allies withdraw unconditional terms...,
This happened around the first week in Jan42. The Japanese have only taken over the Malaya area, Rangoon, Bornea, some of the Philippines, and some islands in the South Pacific. Yet they haven't taken any bases east of Wake, and I'm holding ground. Can't figure this one out?

2.) TF's stall around the Point Blair base early in the game. I've seen TF's going to Point Blair take 3,4, and even 5 turns to get there, when they should have taken no more than 1 or 2 turns coming from the India or Dacca base. TF's that try to route around this base seem to stall for at least one turn. This problem fades away in Feb42. Maybe this has something to do with the Ocean Paths being removed from the game?

3.) Replenishment TF formed at India base teleports to Pearl after replenishing other TF's. I did this one twice to be sure!

4.) Replenishing TF's doesn't increase fuel values in icon.

5.) DD 'Stuart' doesn't show its multiple units number. (1x),(2x)...etc.

6.) Head Quarter Controls are set to full human control in a non-historical start-up of the 1941 campaign. They should be set to full computer control at the start-up of any new game.

7.) Sometimes saved games do not reopen! I'm hoping this can be fixed thru the editor.

Later,

MJ

[This message has been edited by Manic Jester (edited September 30, 2000).]

[sulup]

Here are a few bugs I've picked up.

Adelaide and Rangoon still show up as isolated despite talks on fixing the problem.

I've noticed once it appears it doesn't go away. Another strange thing is it doesn't happen right away.

Another error is in the Coral Sea scenario. The Japanese TF carriers have A6M5's fighting it out. Should be A6M2's

[Major Tom]

Thanks for the Info on the A6M5's!

In regards to Rangoon, I find it peculiar that in the other scenarios (OBC42, OBSOL, etc..) that Rangoon does not become, or remain Isolated. However, in OBC41 it does (no matter how many Airgroups are sent).

I think this has to do with Allied airzones, as, when I check them they cover Rangoon. Possibly to solve this you have to cut down Allied aircover and lower their zones of control.

Actually the AI behaves pretty well in Burma regarding supply and aircover, better than the non-patched version. Even if it is isolated they make repeated attempts to send fighter groups, and can actually build up a large amount of supply from Bangkok.

About the Stuard.... Well, if you look closely the Stuart is actually of the Stronghold or Vampire Class, but, I named it like a capital ship instead of using a 1x prefix. I could have left the ship as a 1x Stronghold, but, felt that renaming it to Stuart would add to the game. You will also notice that the Shimikaze (I think?) works the same way (A named Yagumo Class DD).

Actually, I find it annoying when you start a game and all your HQ's are on computer control as you have to go around and set them to full human. Changing HQ's you want to Computer control is a lot easier than changing all the HQ's from computer control to human control, as, most people perfer to use every aspect of the game.

I have never been able to get replenish TF's to work so I can't be much help to you!

Hmmm... If this Japnese victory in 1942 becomes more widespread (ie. happens to more people) then we will possibly have to rework resource vallues and even LCU strengths. This is probably due to the fact that there are more allied LCU's (plus more resources), and they are stronger than the original OBC41's (so the Japanese get more points for their destruction then they did in the original OBC41). We'll just see the frequency of it.

I have never had a problem re-loading a saved game. We will wait and see if this is a constant problem, or, just an isolated incident (like the Allied surrender in 1942!)

Jeremy

[LargeSlowTarget]

Allied surrender in early 42 happend twice in my games (USA 41 even). First time was in Feb 42, after AI tried and failed to take Johnston Is. Strange to surrender after a victory while PH was still burning and anger was flying high. All USN BB's had been sunk at PH and a lot of tincans beaten up badly, so probably the AI had a lot of victory points.
Second time was a new game, AI took undefended Christmas Is. (after trying and failing from Midway to Palmyra), went on to bombard the Aussies at Rabaul with everything the IJN possessed for weeks. Finally took my six USN carriers to Rabaul (Halsey as ComSoPac, HQ on TF, PrepPoints in mind and all), and of course lost half of them and the rest out of the war for months, while inflicting only minor damage (I had help of LBA, the AI not - will never risk a carrier battle again before the Hellcats arrive in scores). After that US surrendered. Of course I had saved the game before execution, so changed orders for my CV's to stay out of harms way, and now it's late 43 in the same game and I get Hellcats and Essex CVs and lots of AA platforms. Payback is a ...

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Robinson Crusoe was the only person who got all his work done by Friday.

[Major Tom]

In a way this might be a good thing, as, the Allies could not afford to be overly wreckless in the first few months of the war and throw away carriers, LCU's and airgroups in defence of Java, Malaya, or the Philippines (as they were historically restricted).

Plus it might be an incentive for an extremely wreckless Japanese player (to get as many Allied kills, and realistically have a chance at an early victory).

Jeremy

[leopard]

Plus it might be an incentive for an extremely wreckless Japanese player (to get as many Allied kills, and realistically have a chance at an early victory).

Hehe... I feel as if you were talking about me. I'm the classic insane Japanese player who's unhappy if he isn't attacking the US West Coast by early 1942. Well I hope the new game (which I just downloaded - cripes 7 MB's and most of it is some PDF's which I don't need and don't work anyways (WTF is wrong with them anyways? New version of Acrobat or something annoying like that?)) is more of a challenge! I read already that there are more and tougher Allied LCU's. Cool. More victims... <g>

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[andrewmv]

>>I have never had a problem re-loading a saved game. We will wait and see if this is a constant problem, or, just an isolated incident (like the Allied surrender in 1942!)<<

Its happened on my system too. Also occassionally when I hit "Saved game" on the main screen it displays a list of saves briefly and dumps me back at the main screen. But this never happens twice in a row, so its not a major problem, just annoying.

[sulup]

It's a very good idea that the Allies are kept on their toes at this early stage of the game, in real life, the first few months of the war was a heady time for the allies where the Japanese swept through all.

When I had played the allies I always withdrew the majority of LCU's from southern Asia and kept them in Australia where I've decided to make them help out in New Guinea later on. Much better than just keeping them in Indonesia where they're gonna get killed off anyway. It will also keep the Japanese point tally in check as well.

[Supervisor]

Had a strange one show up during my game, playing the cannal battle, date of 3-28-43

I see the JP attacking a target in tokyo with there air power, on my turn I looked to see what was there

83 inf brg USMC , attached to imperial GHQ

they didn't last long enough to be a hassle to the game, but I think it should of been a JP unit, not a Marine unit

HARD_Sarge


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Semper Fi

[Manic Jester]

The TF congestion around the Point Blair base, that I mentioned above, can happen any where on the map. I had two TF's leave Wake in the same turn, and they both stalled one square out. Then two turns later they moved on.

The kicker was that one of the two TF's that stalled were two APD units heading to S.F. Then the next turn a TF of APA's left Wake, and they beat the APD TF to S.F.

I also notice that these stalled TF's are vulnerable to enemy TF's.

MJ

[This message has been edited by Manic Jester (edited October 02, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Manic Jester (edited October 02, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Manic Jester (edited October 02, 2000).]

[FirstPappy]

I've noticed that too. Playing as the Allies I've had these "traffic jams" occur around New Caledonia and Port Moresby as well.

[Rich Dionne]

Regarding the TF congestion issue:

Are these TF's cargo type? If so, they can be reluctant to enter an area where enemy attacks are likely. I have seen this sort of stalling under these conditions. I think I have also seen it on other TF types if the HQ prep. point level is low.

Regards,

Rich Dionne

[FirstPappy]

I have a saved game where an Allied TF has stopped completely in the middle of the ocean out of New Caledonia to Port Moresby. It's original destination was not Port Moresby but I changed it after I noticed it wasn't going anywhere. But not even changing the destination could get it to move. The TF has plenty of fuel and the HQ has plenty of Prep. I have a second saved game follwing the first which shows no movement from one turn to the next. I've tried restarting about three times and the TF still refuses to move so the second saved game may not even be necessary. Maybe the TF found Atlantis and ran aground? Would these saved games be of any value?

[Major Tom]

Here are a few really nasty and annoying bugs that I have found which will require some work to fix.

1. Early arrival of US Divisions. I played a game with the Japanese as a total computer force (to test out my theory about IJNAF TB and DB groups) with the Allies on human (but all HQ's on full computer). It was April 1942 (around turn 20) and at least 7 US Divisions were 40-60 turns EARLY! The 2nd Marine Division was alrady in the South Pacific before the 1st Marine Division was even on the map!!! The 81st, 33rd, 77th, 7th, 1st Cav, 37th and 43rd were also well before schedule. I will look at the OBC file to see if this can be fixed.

2. While testing to see if IJNAF TB and DB groups will go into the Pacific if they start off with larger numbers than 3 Aircraft I noticed another annoying factor. By around April-March 1942 IJNAF Tactical Bombers (G3M and G4M) start sitting in Tokyo in large numbers. I didn't go very far to see how long they remained there though (so it could just be temporary).

3. I think that the IJN is too adicted to attacking the US Central Pacific area. ALL of my games (around 6) that I have had the Japanese on AI result in their main tactic to butt their heads against the formidable US Defences around the Hawaiian Islands while ignoring the other fields of battle. Attacking the Central Pacific should be an option for the IJN, BUT, it should be in place AFTER Malaya, the Philippines and The Dutch East Indies are secured. If not, the IJN loses all of their offensive power before they can secure the resources. Without the Carriers to guard TF's around Java the Allies can put up too much of a defensive Aircraf screen to make any attempt by the IJA to land impossible. There should be an option for the AI after they secure the South East Pacific reion to go of 3 ways. Attack the British in India, the US/Australians in the South Pacific or the US in the Central Pacific. This should be after they have secured their Co-prosperity Sphere of influence in the real important areas in the Pacific (resource based).

The IJN and IJA neither have the men, aircraft, or resources to waste on the Central Pacific before securing the East Indies and the Philippines. They lose valuable ships and formations trying to invade worthless islands (Hawaii, Maui, etc.) without adequately reinforcing them (they leave them there to be easily taken out by US forces).

[Manic Jester]

Originally posted by Rich Dionne:
Regarding the TF congestion issue:

Are these TF's cargo type? If so, they can be reluctant to enter an area where enemy attacks are likely. I have seen this sort of stalling under these conditions. I think I have also seen it on other TF types if the HQ prep. point level is low.

Regards,

Rich Dionne

Rich,
These have been Air Combat, Surface Combat, and Transport TF's. The kind off TF's that go into Harms Way! I havn't noticed the problem with Cargo TF's, I keep those out of the action zone.

With PP's I can understand that with the scenario I described around Pt. Blair early in the war. When I had this problem around Wake, I had plenty of PP's so I disregarded Prep Point problems. In the original if you didn't have enough PP's the TF never got out of the base, that is the way I remeber it. I just never had this stalling problem before.

Thanks for the help Rich. I haven't play in over a year, Jogg'n the old nogg'n

MJ


[This message has been edited by Manic Jester (edited October 02, 2000).]

[FirstPappy]

My TF that is "stalled" is a Transport TF with APs, surface combatants and a CVE with Adm. Turner.

[Rich Dionne]

Well, the stalling of TF's does appear to be going well beyond cargo TF's! Come to think of it, in a recent e-mail game I was playing, I did have some trouble with APD's leaving Port Moresby getting hung up. Mind you, this was with the version of the game prior to the new release. I think this problem was there before, but it may be that the opening up of convoy routes has increased the likelihood.

I wonder, have others noticed this happening more in movement with home and destination set the same, or does it also happen with different home and destination?

Regards,

Rich

P.S. Pappy, why don't you go ahead and send me your save file with "Atlantis bound" TF. I'll take a look at it.

[This message has been edited by Rich Dionne (edited October 02, 2000).]

[frank1970]

Even worse, I lost my replenish TF at Colombo! I sent a bombard TF to Rangoon, where its ammo was reduced to 3 by attacking the base.
After that I wanted to replenish the TF. I created a TF consisting of a BB, 1Cl, some DD and all AO I found at Colombo. then I clicked on the Bombard TF at Rangoon. I got the message TF retired and away my replenish TF was. After searching the AOs by the search ship menue, I got the right TF number, but the location should be somewhere near Dutch Harbor. On that location was no TF.

[Manic Jester]

Hey Frank,

Check Pearl for your AO Replenishment TF that is where mine went to after leaving India.

Anybody else out there having problems opening saved games? I think it may be tied to the early end game bug. I've checked the three files for saved games and there sizes look right.

MJ

[RevRick]

Do we have some traitorous shipyards. It seems that all this time, someone has been building torpedo boats for the IJN when they should have been building PT boats for the USN. Can't access the PT's showing in the pools utility for rebuilding PT squadrons being chewed up in the Solomons. BTW, when did the Betty's become so skilled in bombing PT's anyway. Several raids show 24-36 Betty's scoring multiple BOMB hits on PT's. Good Grief, they don't do that well with CV's most of the time. Grantted - splinter hits on wooden hulled boats would be a problem, but these IJN flyers are being the Davy Crockett's of Japan - at least as far as the PT's go.

Concerning Replenishment - I haven't had anyone disappear yet on that mission. But, I have had an intermittent problem with ships disappearing from time to time.

God Bless;
Rev. Rick

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tincanman