So, What Do You Do For Matrix?

[KG Erwin]

Sometimes I sense a confrontational stance towards the company by some gamers. Matrix isn't Microsoft or any other corporate monolith. We buy their games, and hopefully offer constructive criticisms to improve their products.

"Run by gamers FOR gamers". Patches for complex games take time. Wargamers aren't about instant gratification. We are concerned with careful testing, historical validity, and a great out-of-the-box product.

We're spoiled. We want everyone else to do the work for us in the entertainment/game world, because we have so little time for recreation.

The thing is, wargamers take their recreation VERY seriously. We critique the games and nitpick over this and that, but how much time do you invest into suggesting or making specific improvements?

Personally, I'm "into" two specific games. Both can be modded by the gamers themselves. WE can have direct influence on how the games play, and help out the entire community in the process. Everyone plays a part, and that is the biggest reason why I am a supporter of the Matrix philosophy on making the gamers themselves participants in game design/ development.

In a perfect world, everyone can have a chance to make a difference. Here, you CAN make a difference.

[KG Erwin]

duplicatepost

[Goblin]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
We're spoiled. We want everyone else to do the work for us in the entertainment/game world, because we have so little time for recreation.

I disagree with this. I think that, as in any industry, we're customers. You don't have a concrete crew come to your house and demand you help put down your own driveway. It's not about being spoiled, it's about being a purchaser expecting the promised product. There is a give and take type of trust that should exist between a buyer and a seller.

That said, I think Matrix does an excellent job dealing with customers, and supplying the product that they expected when they put their money down.

It is an added bonus that they get input and participation from the guys and gals that will play their games, and good business sense besides. Who better to tell you what they want than the players themselves? Almost guarantees the product will be purchased by those players.


Goblin

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
I am a supporter of the Matrix philosophy on making the gamers themselves participants in game design/ development.

Too bad a good majority simply whine about release dates and pricing rather than offering anything of much value or substance..

There may well be more usable suggestions and/or ideas given out for other publishers games. Probably because there are simply more people that play them and therefore the chances are better to A. Find someone with a good idea and B. Find someone motivated and dedicated enough to articulate it. Some MMPORG forums are one better example than Matrix.

The Matrix difference though.. Is that you have a much much better chance that someone close to the product actually listens to you/reads your post in the first place, and acts upon it.

However such a thing is not always possible within a larger community than this one.

So you can't entirely fault larger developers/publishers for not doing so. But as Id certainly not say its the norm for the smaller ones.. I would still commend Matrix for doing their best at it.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Back in 2000 I showed up, many others showed up too. A good handful got here before me of course.

Back then Matrix Games was Steel Panthers World at War and a bunch of VERY agressive fans.

I didn't come here though because I liked David Heath, heck in 2000 I had no idea who owned the place. I found a Windows friendly version of the game I had an interest in, that was it, wasn't anything more.

I had nothing but dialup, it blew chunks every time I needed to get a new version. Back then it was version 4.something.
I sought to get it on a cd, thought it would be less painful. Bought an 11 dollar computer gaming magazine just for the SPWaW cd, the disk was defective, and the magazine was also just worthless non wargamer crap. I was out 11 bucks, and the company's idea of solving the problem was a hilarious joke. Never went back, screw computer gaming magazines with demo disks.

But I hung around the forum here, seemed like an interesting place.

Then one day I discovered I had quite a lot of posts, people seemed to actually give a flying fig for my thoughts. I decided I liked Matrix Games for Matrix Games.

But I won't sugar coat history, that small little community is GONE, sorry people it's true. I think it left sometime between 2002-2003.

Not that there is nothing to be happy about. Matrix Games grew up, and the place today is an incredible sum of gaming.

I'm here because my interest was earned. I buy the games I buy because my money was earned. I am not here to be a Matrix Games cheerleader or gushing fan boy. I'm neither.
Be it one game or many, a company should earn it's customers, never just assume they will show up.

I have as much respect for Hubert Cater of Fury Software and his Strategic Command and Ron Dockal of Schwerpunkt and his Russo German war and Anglo German War as I do for Mtirx Games and their entire line up. Because they all try damned hard to make the best game possible.

These forums though, are just forums. Might be here today, might not feel like being here tomorrow. Not relevant to my interest or lack thereof in the games. If the games are solid, I'll want them. If the support is solid, I will feel my investment is a safe one.

So what do I do for Matrix Games? I offer them my respect.
That respect likely translates into sales.
But it's a proper consumer relationship mostly for me.
I expect a proper product for my limited funds, and they deliver.

[KG Erwin]

I understand what you're saying Les, but I take a certain pride in being directly or indirectly involved in a game's devlopment. The time has passed for SPWaW, but there may be others.

Goblin, whether you wanna admit it or not, YOU played a part in the development, too.

5 years ago, I guess many of us didn't have a clue about how far the company would come. When David expanded outside of the wargame genre, I knew something was happening. Signing a deal with Pure Sim baseball sealed it for me. This move assured me that my loyalty was not misguided, contrary to what a former friend said.

I made my choice, and it was the right one.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
I understand what you're saying Les, but I take a certain pride in being directly or indirectly involved in a game's devlopment. The time has passed for SPWaW, but there may be others.

Exactly - it's a hobby in which everyone can decide for themselves to what level they want to be involved. Just be a customer and reward good designs with your money is fine enough, but if you want to participate in the creation process there's plenty of opportunity. From designing a scenario/mod for a game to beta-testing new designs to actually becoming a wargame developer yourself (see Justin Prince and War Plan Orange which started as a mod)

What Matrix does is provide the opportunity. Everyone can be a beta-tester, everyone can go to conventions for them, everyone can contact them with an idea for a new game. By being approachable to each and everyone they're showing that they may be the big fish in the wargame pond, but that they still listen to what the little fish have to offer

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[TOCarroll]

Well, I am a loyal customer who has made a few sugguestions, helped write up a list of triggers for WaW, and (mostly) asked a hell of a lot of questions.
 
I have found both Matrix and their Gaming Community extremely supportive (including tech support). I'm not a programmer, but always feel free to say, "Maybe if this could do that". I don't carp & bitch about price of release deadlines, because IMHO Matrix cares about QUALITY. I don't always agree with their choices, but I do own more Matric Games than any other company's games.
 
I view myself as a loyal customer, who will pitch in for beta testing, or whatever they want, as long as I am capable of doing it.[:)]

[dinsdale]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Sometimes I sense a confrontational stance towards the company by some gamers. Matrix isn't Microsoft or any other corporate monolith. We buy their games, and hopefully offer constructive criticisms to improve their products.

Well what is the difference between MS and Matrix from a customer point of view? I buy something from them, and in return get use out of their product, there is no difference. So why should Matrix expect me to treat them differently? Are their products heavily discounted? Is there some other added value which they provide seperating them from other vendors?

And while on the subject, in my dealings with MS at a personal consumer, and through a business relationship, I have found them to be responsive and provided excellent service. They also listen to feedback, incorporate suggestions and when that's not possible, acoomodating work arounds. When compared with other corporate vendors such as IBM or Oracle, MS shines even more so.

So while it might be trendy or a buzzword to set MS up as some methaphor for all that is wrong with computers, it's one based either on isolated contact, or some sort of communal anecdotal myth with no grounding in reality.

We're spoiled. We want everyone else to do the work for us in the entertainment/game world, because we have so little time for recreation.

Spoiled? Wanting something to work as advertised is spoiled? Maybe the attitude that customers will buy something, then help fix it is spoiled.

To answer your original question, I own more than 10 Matrix games, recommend some of them which have resulted in purchase, and contribute feedback if I come across a bug not yet reported. Not so much of that anymore though, I only buy Panther games when released, the others I wait for considerable time to be patched, given that I'm "spoiled" enough to want a working copy and not a work in progress.

[robpost3]

I tattooed the logo on me bum[:D]
 
 
 

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: robpost3

I tattooed the logo on me bum[:D]

LOL!! Now, THAT is loyalty.

[ravinhood]

I am a consumer and it is up to the company to gain my support and respect by producing games I want, "printed manuals", cheap prices and fix ALL issues with the game that come up after release in a timely manner and don't back talk me when I make comments about the game(s). I'm the consumer, I'm always right and it's up to the manager of the company to make sure all his/her employees know that. What will I do for them for all of this? Why promote the game to all those I have come in contact with in the gaming circle. Consumers can increase sales or cause them to decrease. I think some business forget that aspect of it.

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I am a consumer and it is up to the company to gain my support and respect by producing games I want, "printed manuals", cheap prices and fix ALL issues with the game that come up after release in a timely manner and don't back talk me when I make comments about the game(s). I'm the consumer, I'm always right and it's up to the manager of the company to make sure all his/her employees know that. What will I do for them for all of this? Why promote the game to all those I have come in contact with in the gaming circle. Consumers can increase sales or cause them to decrease. I think some business forget that aspect of it.

What do you do for a living? Just curious.

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I'm the consumer, I'm always right and it's up to the manager of the company to make sure all his/her employees know that.

LOL [:D]

I have a name for it

Consumer Terrorist !

[DuckofTindalos]

Considering how often ravinhood mouths off and acts like a troll, he must really feel slighted as a consumer...[8|]

[KG Erwin]

OK, guys, let's not gang up on someone with a dissenting opinion. Let's give him a chance to respond, if he so chooses.

[UndercoverNotChickenSalad]

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

But I won't sugar coat history, that small little community is GONE, sorry people it's true. I think it left sometime between 2002-2003.

I wonder who caused that debacle [8|]

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: robpost3

I tattooed the logo on me bum

That's too much information!

[robpost3]

its only half me bum the other half is...[:'(]

[jchastain]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
We're spoiled. We want everyone else to do the work for us in the entertainment/game world, because we have so little time for recreation.

I disagree with this. I think that, as in any industry, we're customers. You don't have a concrete crew come to your house and demand you help put down your own driveway. It's not about being spoiled, it's about being a purchaser expecting the promised product. There is a give and take type of trust that should exist between a buyer and a seller.

We are the customer, but in some ways we are more like gasoline purchasers than driveway buyers - most are not willing to go through the full serve line. While we love to complain about buggy releases, I would guess most wouldn't choose to wait an extra month and pay an extra $20 in order to pay for additional testing prior to release.