Artillery effectiveness

[Owl]

Obviously there is "the hard way" meathod of learning this, but...
Assume I am to take an area of a few buildings and such (coincidentally very similar to those in the demo...ahem). I can be sure that infantry at least if not AT guns and maybe some armor is in the area. The question I have is - if I drop an arty strike in the town how is there any way to tell if it is in fact doing anything? In other games I have had the same question - you drop artillery and move your foot soldiers in and face plenty of defensive fire. You go in without - get plenty of defensive fire. I find it hard to tell with any certainty that the arty is doing anything unless it actually hits an enemy gun or tank and I find the remains as I approach.
So - if I drop a 105 barage or better yet 150 in the group of buildings - can I be relatively sure it's doing any good? Should the barage be used instead on enemy units in woods - buildings being too protective?
Thanx...

[Laryngoscope]

Owl, welcome to how it works in the real world as well.

The short answer is experience.

A kinda cheat is to listen to the sounds of expiring enemy infantry.

Because of the defensive bonuses at turn 15 you can't simply lob arty all day long. At best you can soften resistance, but you will still need to go in if you want to finish the scenario in the effective time limit.

[Mobius]

To know if your artillery scored any kills you will have to wait until the end of the game then go about checking what the artillery did. Of course this doesn't tell if it just caused casualties.

[Owl]

Hmm.  Well from what I can gather from lots of reading an arty bombardment of an area just prior to an attack in "real life" tends to make any troops and probably AT or infantry guns int he target area at the very least keep their heads down.  My issue with this game (and similar ones) is that using the pre-bombardment tactic then assaulting seems to provide no noticeable difference as compared to just assaulting and saving the points spent on artillery to buy something useful.  I'm not saying that bombardments don't kill and are useless - but it strikes me that for the points it appears much more effective to purchase a good assault gun (or two), more tanks or more infantry & just loose the artillery.
When a game is leading me toward a conclusion that is contrary to what my understanding of "real life" is - then I am forced to question the game mechanics.

[oldsoldier173]

WW2 Artillery was not a pinpoint exercise as todays artillery has become.  A 250-500m CEP was a norm with large caliber (105-122-150-152).  With the use of plotting boards and compass and the bounce of the gun in the mounts the CEP began to get greater after prolonged firing, until a reset of aiming stakes and reset of initial firing data.  American standard was 5 rounds reset data upon confirm from FO on rounds creeping out of impact area.
 
Artillery effectiveness depends on target.  Built up areas tend to provide more cover for infantry making extended bombardment ineffective as rubble becomes more effective cover.  Infantry was trained to go to lower floors and let rubble come down, and european stone/masonry construction provided excellant cover.
 
Use artillery to localize and suppress, do not use for effective casuality producing.  Seperate infantry from armor and to suppress AT guns and teams in woods.  Fire and shift as close as you can when assaulting or in the defense.
 
Using artillery to screen a movement also keeps the enemy off balance.

[Owl]

The issue is not so much that I don't know how it's supposed to work - it's that if I use artillery the way you suggest, or just forget about it - I really see little difference typically. About the only time I really notice that artillery is doing some good is when enemy infantry is approaching in open ground. If I am attacking them - I have run a scanrio with and without artillery and found that in general it SEEMS nearly useless - certainly much less useful at least than another AFV might be.

[Erik Rutins]

Hey Owl,

Although I do find artillery useful in Winterstorm, particularly for taking out infantry and anti-tank guns, in the upcoming sequel it will be both less expensive and more effective as far as suppression. We identified those as two areas where it needed a helping hand.

Regards,

- Erik

[oldsoldier173]

Are we going to have the ability to register indirect fire?  Preplotted and registered targets for more accurate and timely defensive fires, or offensive preplotted targeting.  I do find artillery in this game pretty inaccurate and ineffective even for the era.
 
German artillery of the era in defense used preregistered fires to concentrate and utilize ammunition allotments more effectively.
 
Retired US Army Infantry, historical re-enactor (Heer 1941),

[Owl]

Thanks Erik. After a bit more playing and having a few enemy artillery rounds land on MY troops (where I can see what happens) I have decided that they are at least somewhat useful in the current game. I'm still not convinced though that trading the artillery in for more troops or armor wouldn't be a benefit. I need to much with it more...