Italians really suck

[robot]

The Italian campaign I am into right now is the worst bunch of guys I have ever played. The campaign watcher said that my guys are 19% battle ready right at this minute. I have lost over 120 units so far. A company has all but been eliminated. The watcher said that a lot of my units are only 35 exp. Had two that was up to 64 exp but they both have been killed. I am in the 30th turn with no possible way to take any of the forward Objectives. I had all of them then the British rolled in with about 100 tanks and started killin everything in sight and retook all of the VH. If I can get half repaired after this battle I will try and get defense battles for the next three turns so as to get some exp for them so they can at least hit what they are lookin at.

[Alby]

Sick him Mau!!
[:D]

[KG Erwin]

Now, wait. Alby, you provided the updated mech.exe chart for national experience levels, right? The Italians got a shot of viagrazzini in that one.

Robot, are you using the mech.exe provided with the new version of DV? The mech.exe used in 8.403 uses a different database for national exp levels. In that one, the Italians DO suck, big time.

The 8.403 values opened a HUGE kettle of worms. [X(] I have my own opinions on all that, but I'm gonna keep my mouth shut about it. (mmmpph!) [8|]

[vahauser]

Robot,
 
From what you are describing, I think you might want to consider starting your campaign over again. 
 
If you are consistenly running out of build points with which to repair your core units, then you cannot perform the upgrades you need to keep up with the computer.  And then the situation becomes a vicious cycle and just gets worse and worse.
 
As I recall, you manually set your Italian Troop Quality to 45 to start the campaign.  Right?
 
Are you playing with the new Enhanced DV/RN Mod?
 
Perhaps some of the members here on this forum could give you some advice on re-structuring your core and settings for you to start the campaign all over again?
 
--V

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Now, wait. Alby, you provided the updated mech.exe chart for national experience levels, right? The Italians got a shot of viagrazzini in that one.

Robot, are you using the mech.exe provided with the new version of DV? The mech.exe used in 8.403 uses a different database for national exp levels. In that one, the Italians DO suck, big time.

The 8.403 values opened a HUGE kettle of worms. [X(] I have my own opinions on all that, but I'm gonna keep my mouth shut about it. (mmmpph!) [8|]

55 59 59 65 69 65 65 // ITALIAN

[robot]

I went back to the 8.403 version didnt like the Artty in the new enhanced. yes i started the Italians out at 50 but most of them had 35 for exp. Like I said it takes longer this way to get to elite. I like it this way it is tough but then if I can get them too the end of the war i figure ive done something then right. My first battle ended in a draw and thats with 83% loss to my force. I am now in a defend should be a little easier. I have no tanks could not repair them do have a few ATG SP. Bought a lot of mines one thing I dont do normaly but needed something to stop there armor from overrunning me again. A few of my units have gained fairly good with there exp now I have several in the 67 range. See the new dar I started this battle a few minutes ago so far tthe British have lost at least 9 tanks in my minefield.

[KG Erwin]

In real life, the Brits kicked the Italians' butts in North Africa until the arrival of a German reinforcement unit in Feb 1941, led by some guy named Rommel. [:D]

Previously, the Greeks had kicked the Italians' butts ( until the arrival of the Germans).

Goin back even further, Libyan rebels also kicked their butts for awhile in the late 20s and early 30s. The Italians responded with a massive retalation towards the rebel home bases, with relocations and murders of the rebels' families.

[KG Erwin]

dang --double post -- please delete

Why the heck can't we delete our own posts?

[FNG]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

In real life, the Brits kicked the Italians' butts in North Africa until the arrival of a German reinforcement unit in Feb 1941, led by some guy named Rommel. [:D]

It should be noted that, on more than one occasion, the Italians handed the British their butts. However, these reverses were always attributed to the Germans in the popular press, so that the concept of a weak and ineffective Italian army was preserved in the minds of the British public and those units not actually engaged.

[tracer]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
The Italians responded with a massive retalation towards the rebel home bases, with relocations and murders of the rebels' families.

Are you sure you're not thinking about an episode of The Sopranos?

[:D]

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: tracer

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
The Italians responded with a massive retalation towards the rebel home bases, with relocations and murders of the rebels' families.

Are you sure you're not thinking about an episode of The Sopranos?

[:D]

Hmm -- I don't watch the Sopranos, but I AM a fan of the Godfather movies (cue music). "Luca, take care of the rebel leader's horse, OK?" [X(]

[Alby]

I can't believ Mau has not posted in this thread!!
[X(][X(]
[:D]

[Kevin E. Duguay]

Mau 54 where are you?[:D]

[vahauser]

You guys have to realize that robot is manually setting the Italians to 50.  ANY army is going to suck if you manually set them at 50. 
 
I advised robot to just leave "country training" ON, but he doesn't want to do that.  Hence, his Italians suck.
 
But it's not the Italians' fault.
 
--V

[Krec]

the flamers are pretty good though

[11Bravo]

I don't think the Italians suck quite as bad as their reputation in this game. Some (a few) units are pretty good. And a mixed German-Italian force can be really fun to play against US or UK.

[11Bravo]

Second best SPWAW game I ever played was me as Italians defending against my son as UK assaulting. Medium battle, desert. I defended 3 hills and ignored victory hexes. Used mixed force of infantry, artillery, and armor (in reserve) and lots of mines. My son went with his patented all armor all the time strategy. Half of it was destroyed by artillery and mines at the line. The other half disappeared along with my infantry in the battle for the hills. Then my armor barely fought off his dismounted tank crews to recapture the victory hexes. We still talk about that game a year later. SPWAW can be great fun.

[Nikademus]

I did an Italian long campaign once.....alot of fun because of the lower stats (and the cardboard tanks). Great challenge even against the AI. made a nice change of pace from the typical German campaign.

[vahauser]

As I mentioned above, it's not that the Italians suck that is causing all of robot's problems.  Robot is turning "country training" OFF and manually setting the Italians to 50.  And that is what is causing all of robot's problems.  With "country training" ON, the Italians in 1940 are:  exp59, mor65, ldr55.  But when robot turns "country training" OFF, then his Italians become: exp50, mor50, ldr50.  And it is the low morale and low leadership that is killing robot. 

Robot's manually-set Italians can't rally, they can't hit their targets, they can't pass morale checks, they have few available shots, they run away at the first salvo, etc.  In other words, robot's Italians suck.  But it's not the Italians' fault.  It's robot's fault for manually setting them that way.  If robot wants to manually set his Italians to 50 and then get slaughtered, well, it's his party and he can cry if he wants to.  But it's not the Italians' fault.

[Nikademus]

I don't see a typical Italian force set at 50 for a base as a problem. A challenge?....yes. Problem?....no. Like i said, it made a nice change of pace. What Robot thinks.....I don't know...but apparantly he must have wanted a challenge too [:D]