Some noobie questions

[Sagus]

Greetings,
My last experience with any kind of sims was way back in Commanche 3 days, so please, bear with me. [:)]

1. How do I change keyboard controls sensitivity (pitch/dive/roll/yaw)? The current setting is much too touchy.

2. If I use mouse controls (virtual stick) the RMB activates both 'fire secondary weapon' and 'roll' at the same time, which is quite a nuisance. I would actually prefer using my keyboard to roll and use RMB solely for secondary weapon fire. How do I do that?

3. Alright, so I target an enemy starship's system (say, Laser-1) and keep firing at it with all available weapons (plasma cannon, MK7 missles, PDBs - it's a Frigate). But, while the enemy starship's hull dissolves under the MK7 hits, the targeted system still remains at 100 until the ship falls apart. Why?

4. Is there a way to repair the starship's hull? Fighting through a campaign without a single hull repair from day one sounds rather silly to me.

5. Am I correct in my understanding that PDB systems can't shoot down MK7-type starship-launched missles (not only fighter-launched)? Only 'combat drone'-type torpedoes?
And am I right guessing that PDB's set to Def mode will automatically shoot down incoming torpedoes whithout player's interference? How successfully?

6. More to the tactics field: is there a point in using 'energy' weapons (X/Gamma-Rays, Plasma Cannons, PDB's) against a starship covered with a gravitational shield? They don't seem to do anything at all (even to systems, as described in Q3 above).


That's all I can think of for now. All questions refer to SS-TGS version 5.0.1 (official) with no mods.

[wdboyd]

Salutations,

I remain bit amused at commanders that want to knock out specific components on a enemy ship. If you destroy the hull... all systems are destroyed. Besides, one can't win any battle by knocking out systems. The ship still needs to be destroyed. NO points are earned by capturing ships.

Control wise.. I use a joystick with NO problems. I can't relate to using anything else. Consider using a joystick.

Game weapons effect their targets in different ways. EMP, NORMAL, and one other type. Normal damages the hull.

In version 5.01, I believe hulls are repaired to around 51% between campaigns. I agree that there should be repair facilities in the simulation. There is a modder working on a campaign that includes this.

Missiles cannot normally be shot down. That is why missiles have been relegated to much lesser power than torpedos. The games torpedos are basically useless versus any ship with operating PDBs. Knocking out most of a ships PDBs would make using normal torpedos more effective.

Yes PDB weapons set at def will shoot at incoming torpdos. They get MOST incoming torpedos. Weapons systems are designated to shoot at specific targets. If they are set up to fire a fighters, drones and attack craft, they may be firing at a plane and not engage a torpedo. They can't do everything at once.

I overcame these limitations when I created my CLance Anti-Ship Cruise Missiles. Though not as damaging as torpedos, they can put a hurt on any ship in their range. Of course the CLance is part of a mod for Starshatter. It's not part of the original simulation.

[Sagus]

Thanks for clearing up those bits. [:)]

I remain bit amused at commanders that want to knock out specific components on a enemy ship. If you destroy the hull... all systems are destroyed. Besides, one can't win any battle by knocking out systems. The ship still needs to be destroyed. NO points are earned by capturing ships.

Well, the way I see it, a ship's systems are supposed to be easier and faster to take out than taking its hull apart. Which means:
a) If I take out the ship's PDBs, it opens the way for my torpedoes.
b) If I take out the ship's torpedo/missile systems, it significantly cuts down on the damage my ship recieves in the end.
c) If I take out the ship's main lasers/cannons, it similarly spares my ship's systems (if I understand the damage types correctly).
In theory, that is. As I described in the first message, I can't seem to damage their systems at all for some mysterious reason.

Consider using a joystick.

I know. I would've, if I was into sims enough to warrant buying one - but I'm not there yet. [:)]
And I'm kind of used to - and comfortable with - mouse controls. If it wasn't for that aforementioned issue in SS.

Game weapons effect their targets in different ways. EMP, NORMAL, and one other type. Normal damages the hull.

I'm guessing that X/Gamma-Ray weapons would do most EMP damage, missiles/torpedoes - Normal damage, and plasma weapons - that 'other' type... but I could be wrong.

In version 5.01, I believe hulls are repaired to around 51% between campaigns. I agree that there should be repair facilities in the simulation. There is a modder working on a campaign that includes this.

Do you think there's any chance seeing the official campaigns modded this way? Or others?
Would be good if all surviving starships were gradually repaired in-between missions. With repair speed depending on their mass (more mass => more needs to be repaired => the slower it goes), but fairly quickly for it to make a difference, of course.
Just wishful thinking, I suppose.

I overcame these limitations when I created my CLance Anti-Ship Cruise Missiles. Though not as damaging as torpedos, they can put a hurt on any ship in their range. Of course the CLance is part of a mod for Starshatter. It's not part of the original simulation.

I'm still [mostly] enjoying the original content for what it is, but I'll be sure to check out your mod in due time. [:)]

[Psycho0124]

Your amused that people target subsystems.....

Targeting a ships subsystems can make all the differance in a battle. Say you stumble across 3 angry destroyers. Even your big bad Devestator class cruiser is going to have a fight on its hands simply by being outnumbered. Slugging it out with each ship one at a time, youll quickly find yourself disabled and on fire (and dead shortly thereafter). I assure you the enemy will have no qualms about pulling your teeth while your hammering another target.

Just like in real life. If you were to be jumped by a couple guys, It would be prudent for you to slug one in the nose so his eyes would water up. Then you would have his friend all to yourself with no interruption for a few minutes. By the time the first guy recovered and has cleared his eyes, his friend is laying unconsious in a pool of his own blood and your all alone with the other. It still woudlnt guarnetee a win but it would definately even the odds up.

Hammering a ships hull to death takes a long time (esp when it has full sheilds because its core remains undamaged)+(esp when your torpedos cannot make hits because the enemys PDBs are shooting them down). It can take as little as ONE beam volly from dead on to disable BOTH the beam weapons and the torpedo system on a Volanaris class destroyer. One volly to completely remove an enemy ship from the fight leaving you free to kill it at your leisure...I ask you, why not?

[JT]

ORIGINAL: Sagus
Would be good if all surviving starships were gradually repaired in-between missions. With repair speed depending on their mass (more mass => more needs to be repaired => the slower it goes), but fairly quickly for it to make a difference, of course.
Just wishful thinking, I suppose.

Wishful thinking, maybe, but it's a good wish and it'd be a shame if it weren't implemented.

Speaking in terms of realism, a damaged vessel's hull can't typically be repaired in the field. However, jury-rigging can at least restore most of the original integrity.

Star Trek: Klingon Academy had a nice system with regards to that: if someone shot a hole through your port quarter, the game would deform the hull model and you'd have a permanent hole there. The percentage of volume contained in the hole would then be subtracted from your maximum hull percentage. Your crew would still fervently work to repair hull damage even if you were brought down to 20-30% integrity or even less, but your maximum hull status would be capped off at 85% or so after a couple hours' worth of repairs. (Repair speed was inflated pretty severely, but that was so it would be possible to repair critically-damaged systems in the midst of an open battle.)

On only one occasion, I was flying a light cruiser and came home with a fully field-repaired hull which had been repaired to a maximum integrity of 57%. I say only one occasion because to get there, my hull was brought down to 1% integrity just before a final volley of photons pasted that bastard. On all of the other occasions where my hull integrity was brought that low, I wound up getting destroyed altogether.

[wdboyd]

Psycho, Try that crap versus my Cartel ships. I'll even give you 2-3 to one odds. [:D]

Hey, I'm just teasing. [:)]

Participate in the simulation anyway you want. Have fun. I'm more into modding.

Although, I've seen many post by others complaining about not being able to damage ships subsystems. [;)]

If any of you have perfected doing this, I suggest you share your expertise, in detail, with them, then they can become more competent commanders and be less frustrated. [:'(]

Keep em flying. [:D]

[Psycho0124]

Keep in mind that most people go for the real game. You can create a mod to suit anyones tastes. I prefer it as the devs released to myself...

Anyway sure! I would love to have seen an explaination of what works in combat when i first started playing. It took quite a few nasty deaths to figure this stuff out.

The insurgents ships are nearly immune to subsystem targeting aside from thier PDB systems. Thier destroyers fusion can sometimes be hit by attacking from the belly but this is rare. Thier frigates are almost totally immune from subsystem targeting. Hammer away at them untill they die.

The Hegemony tiger class frigate is a pushover. Its fusion core is very exposed and can be hit from any side angle. Once the core is down, the shields drop and the ship is a sitting duck.

The most intimidating enemies your going to face are going to be the hegemony destroyers and cruisers.

Volanaris class destroyer- If you can hit it from a flat 90' angle, you can occasionally take out its core and its shields will drop. You may even be able to take it out completely with a full barrage of grazers. Failing this, switch to the 2 forward lasers. Once you see that laser 1 is down to 10% or so (or isnt taking any damage as your angle is off), Immediately hit the ":" key and cycle to laser 2. Once its down to 10-0%, hit ":" again and finish off the volly on the ships torpedo system. Worst case, youve taken out half its beam weapons as well as its torpedo capability. If your attacking from the nose, you can get each of these systems in a single volly. The ship is helpless and you can kill whatever else is shooting at you.

Broadsword class destroyer- These are tricky. While I have been able to make good core hits (and disable the ship) from about 95'-100' from the nose, this kind of sucess is rare. Generally its best to start hammering away at its forward beams and torpedos. If you have a side view of the ship, hit the torps first. If you have a forward view, go for the beam weapons. Once these are down, you can take off the rail and pds batteries on the top and tail. Finish with torps. Rinse and repeat. These usually come in packs so be sure and bring a friend to get thier attention first.

Hegemony Cruisers- There are two types. The tactics for both are similar. Try and come in at high speed and adjust your flight path to bring you underneath them. They have very soft bellies and thier limited manuverability will work in your favor. The first type will have a single fusion reactor right at the bottom center. It can be hit from a pretty wide angle if your underneath so when you can see it, fire away. Once you start to see it fall, let your beams charge to full and fire a volly of torpedos. Follow this with the beams and the shields will drop just as your torpedos slam into the hull. Easy Kill. The second type of cruiser has 2 fusion reactors. One is in the belly and one is at the bottom of the very end of the ship. The one at the tail is responsable for powering the shields. If you can get underneath and fire torps just before disableing it, you can sometimes make an easy kill. Unfortunately the ship will quickly regain shield power as it switches to the second reactor so you have a narrow oppertunity to get torpedos in. The second core has about the same vulnerability angle as the core on the other type so line up a shot and start hammering.

Carriers- Carriers are tough. Dont expect to be able to damage anything other than its PDB systems so save some torpedos to finish them off. Choose either the bottom or top surface to attack and stick to it. Eliminate the battieres on the top or bottom and hammer with torpedos. Youll likely have to chase them down when they jump away so be prepared for a hunt. Just quantum to another system where you think they might have jumped to. If theyre not there, wait for your q-drive to recharge and try again. When you find them, youll likely have the carrier all to yourself as they dont seem to launch fighters after making a jump very often.

One very nice tactic i use regularly is to set a nav point near an enemy vessle. Set the speed to 750 or 1000 for a high speed attack run and hit "auto". You will appear around 55km out from your target and have just enough time to aqure and set a subsystem to hit. You can use this tactic to come at enemies from the side tail to get the jump on them.

[wdboyd]

Salutations Psyhco0124,

quote: "Keep in mind that most people go for the real game. You can create a mod to suit anyones tastes. I prefer it as the devs released to myself..."

That is why it is called modding. Modifying the original. I enjoy it. To each his own.

Regardless, have fun. That's the whole idea. [;)]

Now, what you shared is great and informational. Good job. [:)]

I for one will copy and refer to what you have shared. [;)]

All of you intrepid commanders get out there and put these insights to the test. Good hunting. [:D]

Outstanding. [:'(]

[Moriartie]

To answer the original questions:

1) You can't change sensitivity - keyboards are digital - either on or off. You either roll or don't. Of course in theory you can change the _amount_ you roll but I don't think SS gives you that option.

2) You can change controls in the options menu - this includes mousey things. Works for me (no joystick either)

3) See other posts, though the short version: "you can only hit things that are accessable". If a PDB is on the other side of the ship you won't be able to hit it. If the fusion core is hidden by armour or 5 of the 6 sides, you won't be able to hit to it from anything but side 6. Etc etc.

4) Starship hulls are repaired up to 50%ish WITHIN a campaign (wdboyd said "between", which is wrong - At the start of campaigns all ships are 100%) between missions, though it won't jump straight to 50% - I think it's around 10% per mission if you're commanding that ship.
Personally I don't think folks appreciate the difficulty of repairing a starship - See the USS Cole (US Naval ship) - took 14 months to repair a "simple" bomb blast - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_(DDG-67) - They're exceptionally complicated systems and a starship will only be more complex.

5) Torps are shot down whilst the PDBs work. But sometimes they get through which isn't pleasent.

6) They do do damage - just not much if you're not pointing them in the correct direction.
Here is a hint: every ship has a weak spot, Even Dragon class carriers! A different subsystem on each ship, at which firing your beams will do lots and lots of hull damage, irrespective of shields and from many angles too. But I'm not telling you where - trial and error.

Hope that lot helps.

[wdboyd]

Do you guys really fly the fighters and attack craft with the mouse? [X(]

[Moriartie]

Yep - Though I much prefer the cap ships - fighters aren't done too well IMHO.
It is possible
Actually no. I use the keyboard to fly the fighters. Been so long since I've flown a fig I'd forgotten. It's not hard using the KB - Mouse was too tricky if I recall (using standard model + Newtonian).

[Psycho0124]

I totally remapped the keys to more suit using the mouse. Switch it to manual mode and use the wasd keys to fire respective thrusters. Use the mouse to swing the nose around to hit targets. I do pretty well with the controll scheme but I can see how a joystick might be a good alternative. Im kind of an old FPS fanatic so the wasd+mouse config comes very naturally to me.

It is quite annoying for the ship to roll so much when you use the right mouse buttom to fire torps. My cruiser usually ends up upside-down after a really intense battle. I looked around in the .cfg files but didnt see any way to modify the mouse controlls. Anyone know if its possable?

[zhire]

space bar fires the missles control fires the primary
 
 
you can update these files at least in the 5.01 update to what you like.  For example for my fighter layout on my laptop version I use 7 an 9 instead of numpad since I dont have one.  Some further tweaking on my objects would be nice if I could set keys to targeting specific hardpoint types on a ship instead of cycling through parts. 
 
PS upon delving into some of the dat file information its rather annoying when crafts have fushion reactors at 0,0,0 or two fushion reactors and one is still set at 0,0,0 .. "Use the Schwartz" oh hell it never hits ... while I know carriers can only jump once it is still annoying that even after that the only options for dmg on the ship can truly be done by a CA or spectre class destroyer with support from some friendly units.  Fighters vs carriers normally for me are certain death. Even firing 6 ASM's I usually dont deal any signifigant dmg. 
 
 
 

[wdboyd]

zhire,

If you were building a warship, would you place your power plant(s) in the bowels of the ship which offers the most hull and structural protection? [&:]

I would and do. [;)]

Too expect a single fighter or attack craft to take out a Capital ship is VERY obtimistic. Carriers are especially tough. They are meant to be.

Now, take out a flight of 4-6 and attack in "line" formation. Such an assault will put a hurt on a ship. Numbers, in this case, really make a difference. Then again, getting through a carriers support ships to launch such an attack would be problematic.

Does the games campaign offer you the opportunity to command flights of 4-6 attack craft? If not... that's unfortunate. [:(]

Create a mission testing my idea. See what the results are. [:'(]

[Psycho0124]

Yes. When the mission involves assaulting a cap ship or large surface structure like an airstrip, the flight will include 3 other strikecraft. It is very possable to take down cap ships with the anti ship missiles allthough I admit I have never tried an assault on a carrier. Those pesky frigates that like to hang near them make it a very dangerous place for a fighter to go.

[Bryax]

ORIGINAL: Psycho0124

Yes. When the mission involves assaulting a cap ship or large surface structure like an airstrip, the flight will include 3 other strikecraft. It is very possable to take down cap ships with the anti ship missiles allthough I admit I have never tried an assault on a carrier. Those pesky frigates that like to hang near them make it a very dangerous place for a fighter to go.

Target their fusion reactors. Fire two/four ASM's. Watch Hegemony frigate lose reactor.

Works fine for me.

Carriers are a tricky. My suggestion: Fly up into their launch bay and fire missiles/guns into it.

[Psycho0124]

Oh I know about the Hegemony Frigates and thier glass reactor cores. I just really prefer to go stomping in with a Cruiser. Fighters are a lot of fun but im into big explosions and seeing everything smaller than me run away in terror.

[Zanthras]

ORIGINAL: Bryax
Carriers are a tricky. My suggestion: Fly up into their launch bay and fire missiles/guns into it.

this tactic works great with fighters or cap ships.

Carriers are thick-skinned, but the flight decks are easy access pass any hull plating.

also tends to make fighter launch and recovery an issue for the bad guy...

[Zanthras]

ORIGINAL: Psycho0124

Keep in mind that most people go for the real game. You can create a mod to suit anyones tastes. I prefer it as the devs released to myself...

Anyway sure! I would love to have seen an explaination of what works in combat when i first started playing. It took quite a few nasty deaths to figure this stuff out.

The insurgents ships are nearly immune to subsystem targeting aside from thier PDB systems. Thier destroyers fusion can sometimes be hit by attacking from the belly but this is rare. Thier frigates are almost totally immune from subsystem targeting. Hammer away at them untill they die.

The Hegemony tiger class frigate is a pushover. Its fusion core is very exposed and can be hit from any side angle. Once the core is down, the shields drop and the ship is a sitting duck.

The most intimidating enemies your going to face are going to be the hegemony destroyers and cruisers.

Volanaris class destroyer- If you can hit it from a flat 90' angle, you can occasionally take out its core and its shields will drop. You may even be able to take it out completely with a full barrage of grazers. Failing this, switch to the 2 forward lasers. Once you see that laser 1 is down to 10% or so (or isnt taking any damage as your angle is off), Immediately hit the ":" key and cycle to laser 2. Once its down to 10-0%, hit ":" again and finish off the volly on the ships torpedo system. Worst case, youve taken out half its beam weapons as well as its torpedo capability. If your attacking from the nose, you can get each of these systems in a single volly. The ship is helpless and you can kill whatever else is shooting at you.

Broadsword class destroyer- These are tricky. While I have been able to make good core hits (and disable the ship) from about 95'-100' from the nose, this kind of sucess is rare. Generally its best to start hammering away at its forward beams and torpedos. If you have a side view of the ship, hit the torps first. If you have a forward view, go for the beam weapons. Once these are down, you can take off the rail and pds batteries on the top and tail. Finish with torps. Rinse and repeat. These usually come in packs so be sure and bring a friend to get thier attention first.

Hegemony Cruisers- There are two types. The tactics for both are similar. Try and come in at high speed and adjust your flight path to bring you underneath them. They have very soft bellies and thier limited manuverability will work in your favor. The first type will have a single fusion reactor right at the bottom center. It can be hit from a pretty wide angle if your underneath so when you can see it, fire away. Once you start to see it fall, let your beams charge to full and fire a volly of torpedos. Follow this with the beams and the shields will drop just as your torpedos slam into the hull. Easy Kill. The second type of cruiser has 2 fusion reactors. One is in the belly and one is at the bottom of the very end of the ship. The one at the tail is responsable for powering the shields. If you can get underneath and fire torps just before disableing it, you can sometimes make an easy kill. Unfortunately the ship will quickly regain shield power as it switches to the second reactor so you have a narrow oppertunity to get torpedos in. The second core has about the same vulnerability angle as the core on the other type so line up a shot and start hammering.

Carriers- Carriers are tough. Dont expect to be able to damage anything other than its PDB systems so save some torpedos to finish them off. Choose either the bottom or top surface to attack and stick to it. Eliminate the battieres on the top or bottom and hammer with torpedos. Youll likely have to chase them down when they jump away so be prepared for a hunt. Just quantum to another system where you think they might have jumped to. If theyre not there, wait for your q-drive to recharge and try again. When you find them, youll likely have the carrier all to yourself as they dont seem to launch fighters after making a jump very often.

One very nice tactic i use regularly is to set a nav point near an enemy vessle. Set the speed to 750 or 1000 for a high speed attack run and hit "auto". You will appear around 55km out from your target and have just enough time to aqure and set a subsystem to hit. You can use this tactic to come at enemies from the side tail to get the jump on them.

I would have to concur with wdboyd, great tactics. It is true that having some intel would be helpful.

Perhaps milo's intent may have been to give the impression that the Alliance had no intel on the hegemony craft...or limited anyway.

The greater challenge provided in having to figure things out might be appealing to some, personally, I had a ball with it. Losing gave me a chance to find out how to win. There were great victories in some of my most catastophic losses.

Many a time was it I kamakazied a cruiser into a carrier simply because I was already toast...there was no turning back. I won't quit a mission because I am losing, I go down with the ship...if it comes to that.

Psycho0124's story gives a great example of this kind of last ditch effort to drag the bastard down, by whatever means available.

This kind of playing earns metals and leaves behind powerful war stories of a commander's split second decision that turned the tide to victory.

I have played no other space sim other than SS, close minded as that seems, it is what I enjoy. With great modders out there it is almost impossible for me not find new challenges.

Fire up some Alliance vessels against wdboyd's Cartel and you can find some serious challenge. Play TurgotZ's TOS Star Trek, or DamoclesX's B5...StarWars, by Master_Q and others...Starbuck's BSG. Some may not know, but Adonnay has an entire fleet also.

I am seeing even more great talent everyday, with promising new designs.

Truly I think wdboyd said it best in these few words...

ORIGINAL: wdboyd
Participate in the simulation anyway you want. Have fun.