Any pbem invasions of the US West Coast?

[Dive Bomber1]

I was wondering if any Japanese players have been able to invade the US West Coast, or even Canada during a pbem game? If so, how did it go, and was an AAR posted?

Thanks

[TulliusDetritus]

There are some lunatics out there [:D]

Anyway, are you talking about a "crazy invasion": "this is indeed a suicide but oh well, let's have some fun"? Or about a successful invasion: "the Allied player is totally KO"?

I don't think someone managed to do that: per manual, lots of divisions will auto-magically appear in the West Coast in case of Die Grosse Invasion. As for a lunatic strategy, I do not read the AAR's. But as I have said, I suspect there must be some lunatics (no offense intended here) [:D]

[wild_Willie2]

Main problem with invading the US, that, once you conquer a base on the US mainland, the US will get ALL units scheduled to arrive in the next 6 months INSTANTANIOUSLY....
 
And that are A LOT of units/airpower... 

[saj42]

I remember seeing a thread or AAR about this back in about November. SF was invaded, and the invaders outnumbered the defenders on the day of landing. As if by magic the reinforcements were brought forward 6 months. All those scheduled to arrive in SF did so - poor Jap player first attack then faced about 10 division equivalents in a city hex. Obviously the attack was a disaster.
The game mechanics work the same for both sides - if US attacks HI.

I've two issues with this :
1. If units arrive early then they should not be at full strength - as they haven't finished forming up and completing basic training (% disabled squads should be higher the further you are from the original arrival date)
2. They should not all appear at e.g. SF (as per the reinforcement schedule) as they would be training at many locations all over the continental US. Only those training in the SF area should appear there - others should arrive at say the United States base (a change to locations in the database?).

[Cuttlefish]

I thought I remembered reading an AAR where Mogami tried invading the US as the result of a drunken bet. After a bit of looking I found "Beer made me do it": http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=911310&mpage=1&key=

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!
I've two issues with this :
1. If units arrive early then they should not be at full strength - as they haven't finished forming up and completing basic training (% disabled squads should be higher the further you are from the original arrival date)
2. They should not all appear at e.g. SF (as per the reinforcement schedule) as they would be training at many locations all over the continental US. Only those training in the SF area should appear there - others should arrive at say the United States base (a change to locations in the database?).

I think this simulates the idea that if San Francisco is under siege there is no way the US is sending troops to Europe. It's not just the units destined for the Pacific Japan would face, but the entire US Army, Navy and Marines, plus probably Canada.

Invading the US west coast is suicide. It should be...

[Nemo121]

Canada is doable and, in some circumstances, eminently justifiable. Invading CONUSA is really neither.

[Dive Bomber1]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Canada is doable and, in some circumstances, eminently justifiable. Invading CONUSA is really neither.

I just figured that if the Allied player moved all his good units out of the West Coast in early 1942 there wouldn't be much there, even if six month's worth of units showed up.

Thanks to all for the comments and for the link!

[denisonh]

PPs prevent the Allies from doing too much too early in 42. There are some valuable units in the Phillipines and DEI that Allied players can move/evacuate that can be very helpful later on.

I think an Alakan adventure may be far more valuable as the Japs as many Allied players divert North Pacfic forces to other places.

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

The game mechanics work the same for both sides - if US attacks HI.

I've two issues with this :
1. If units arrive early then they should not be at full strength - as they haven't finished forming up and completing basic training (% disabled squads should be higher the further you are from the original arrival date)
2. They should not all appear at e.g. SF (as per the reinforcement schedule) as they would be training at many locations all over the continental US. Only those training in the SF area should appear there - others should arrive at say the United States base (a change to locations in the database?).

Not true. Japan Militia divisions arrives no earlier than January 45. So, Allied player can invade HI before that date without any fear of activaing HI Militia units.

Few players achived that, most recent is seydliz who done that in March 42 (yes,it is not typo[:)])

Japan militia divisions arrives at 1/4 or 1/3 strength and with awful experience and morale .

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!
I've two issues with this :
1. If units arrive early then they should not be at full strength - as they haven't finished forming up and completing basic training (% disabled squads should be higher the further you are from the original arrival date)
2. They should not all appear at e.g. SF (as per the reinforcement schedule) as they would be training at many locations all over the continental US. Only those training in the SF area should appear there - others should arrive at say the United States base (a change to locations in the database?).

I think this simulates the idea that if San Francisco is under siege there is no way the US is sending troops to Europe. It's not just the units destined for the Pacific Japan would face, but the entire US Army, Navy and Marines, plus probably Canada.

Invading the US west coast is suicide. It should be...

Well it depends when the west coast is invaded too. We didn't have any divisions earmarked for europe on 12/7/41, and even though we at some point wanted to send stuff there, any IJ invasion around the first two months surely wouldn't had seen what was sent to NAfrica contesting them. I think the original poster also thinks that the trigger is IJ taking a city, whereas I always thought it was a matter of IJ setting foot on any soil east of a certain line.

[Dive Bomber1]

ORIGINAL: denisonh

PPs prevent the Allies from doing too much too early in 42. There are some valuable units in the Phillipines and DEI that Allied players can move/evacuate that can be very helpful later on.

I think an Alakan adventure may be far more valuable as the Japs as many Allied players divert North Pacfic forces to other places.

That's a good point. The Alaskan bases would certainly make it easier for the KB to raid the West Coast ports.

Thanks -

[Nemo121]

Pauk,
 
Not quite correct. Jagdfluger has invaded Sakhalin at the beginning of February 42 in my PBEM against him [:D]. of course the REAL trick is whether there will be any US troops left alive on Sakhalin in 1 month's time [:D]

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Charles_22
I think the original poster also thinks that the trigger is IJ taking a city, whereas I always thought it was a matter of IJ setting foot on any soil east of a certain line.

I believe that you are correct, though I haven't looked up the rule in a while.

I don't know the US disposition at the start of the war, but certainly the US had several divisions of troops scattered around the CONUS.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Charles_22
I think the original poster also thinks that the trigger is IJ taking a city, whereas I always thought it was a matter of IJ setting foot on any soil east of a certain line.

I believe that you are correct, though I haven't looked up the rule in a while.

I don't know the US disposition at the start of the war, but certainly the US had several divisions of troops scattered around the CONUS.

Yes there were plenty of troops in the CONUS at the time. To quote:


On 30 June 1939 the Regular Army numbered 187,893 men, including 22,387 in the Army Air Corps. On the same date the National Guard totaled 199,491 men.
The major combat units included nine infantry divisions, two cavalry divisions, a mechanized cavalry (armor) brigade in the Regular Army and eighteen infantry divisions in the National Guard.

On 16 September 1940 the first peacetime draft in United States history was passed by Congress.

On 7 December 1941 the Army consisted of 1,685,403 men (including 275,889 in the Air Corps) in 29 infantry, five armor, and two cavalry divisions. While this 435 percent increase was a magnificent achievement, shortages of equipment and trained personnel were still serious.


Through 1942 and into early 1943 the Army expanded to 8,291,336 men in 89 divisions: sixty-six infantry, five airborne, sixteen armored, one cavalry, and one mountain infantry.


What arrives in any given 6 months in WitP is peanuts compared to what the US could have thrown to the West Coast in a week.

[Feinder]

What arrives in any given 6 months in WitP is peanuts compared to what the US could have thrown to the West Coast in a week.

Trains are such a wonderful thing.

:^)

-F-

[qgaliana]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Canada is doable and, in some circumstances, eminently justifiable. Invading CONUSA is really neither.

If you assume the Japanese were willing to assemble the shipping and forces, I could conceive of a hypothetical (RL) landing succeding anywhere in Canada or the US to the extent it might build a sizeable beachhead, simply because there is too much coast to cover.

But even in the case of a Canadian invasion (most of the army was already in europe), I seriously doubt the US would stand idly by with the Japanese setting up airbases in Canada. Any west coast landing would have been met by everything the US and Canada could have thrown at it. East coast, west coast, recalls from England...

The units just don't exist in the game to properly reflect this.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Canada is doable and, in some circumstances, eminently justifiable. Invading CONUSA is really neither.

If you assume the Japanese were willing to assemble the shipping and forces, I could conceive of a hypothetical (RL) landing succeding anywhere in Canada or the US to the extent it might build a sizeable beachhead, simply because there is too much coast to cover.

But even in the case of a Canadian invasion (most of the army was already in europe), I seriously doubt the US would stand idly by with the Japanese setting up airbases in Canada. Any west coast landing would have been met by everything the US and Canada could have thrown at it. East coast, west coast, recalls from England...

The units just don't exist in the game to properly reflect this.

And lend-lease would have been a dead subject had the Japanese actaully invaded the West Coast - one of the biggest factors for early US equipment shortages (1941-1942) was lend-lease.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Big B
Through 1942 and into early 1943 the Army expanded to 8,291,336 men in 89 divisions: sixty-six infantry, five airborne, sixteen armored, one cavalry, and one mountain infantry.

I had no idea the US military was that big at the time. Anybody know how big the Japanese or German military was at its height?

[TulliusDetritus]

NiceGuy, as for Germany, numbers may lie.

This is what I know:

- when the war starts in september 1939:
Army: 2,4 million men => 104 big "units": among them 6 Panzer divisions, 4 Motorised divisions, 4 light divisions and 3 mountain divisions.

- between summer 1940 and spring 1941 the army is reorganised. There are 20 Panzer divisions, 10 Motorised divisions and 185 infantry divisions (on 1940 there were 140 divisions).

BUT after the re-organisation, the Panzer divisions have only between 140 and 190 tanks. Before they had between 180 and 300 tanks. In other words, there are x2 Panzer divisions but with almost half of the tanks.

After Barbarossa, numbers necessarily "lie". The Wehrmacht is massacred in Russia (900,000 deaths only on 1941, a quite "victorious" year). Later during the war there will be a lot of divisions... on the paper. Some only have 1,000 men, others have been annihilated. Also note that a number of this total was almost worthless: good only for security tasks in rear areas.

As for Japan, I don’t know, but for sure their army was inferior to the German or Soviet armies. Japan was a naval power. Either they could afford a powerful navy or army. But not both.