Adding trails to New Guinea

[el cid again]

A thread on Indochina got hijacked in extended debate about the Kokoda trail (note the spelling - which I at least had wrong)

I came under (politely) intense criticism for maintaining that the Kokoda trail was properly represented in all versions of WITP and should not be removed altogether. It was said that the Kappa Kappa Trail was significant as well - and that since it isn't on the map we can safely remove the Kokoda Trail. It was also said there was an airfield at Kokoda - and that was of logistic significance.

I reviewed the official US Army History (Victory in Papua) and conclude several points:

a) The Kokoda Trail was a PRE EXISTING ROAD at the western end - called the "Kokoda Road" - and for that reason the Uncommon Valor coding is correct: Port Moresby art and pwhex should show ROAD vice trail.

b) The Kokoda Trail (formally the Kokoda Track) BEGINS about the end of the Port Moresby hex - and it is properly shown on all WITP maps - and it stays.

c) There WAS a PRE EXISTING AIRFIELD at Kokoda - Level 1 - and it is such an awful site the base value should be 0 - something almost never done in RHS. This is potentially significant in the game - and was IRL - particularly if improved.

d) Kokoda was an economically significant point - or no one would maintain in peacetime a road/trail over such conditions to reach it. For that reason - in addition to being an airfield - Kokoda needs to be a location with a single resource point (the minimum value possible in our system).

e) The Australian 7th Division - including 2 Aussie brigades and 1 US RCT - indeed used the Kokoda Trail for their offensive re Buna.

f) The Aussies did indeed put a force across the trail before the Japanese offensive began - a native battalion and a company were in place when the Japanese landed at Kokoda and points East of it - and the rest of the white battalion was ordered to back them up.

g) The Kappa Kappa trail was indeed about as significant as the Kokoda Trail - except that the economically significant points (Kappa Kappa and Joure) on it are not pre existing airfields. We will add this trail as well - the first part is already there - the trail to the SE of PM - and from there it goes NE to Buna. The K trail will be in the next hex north. WE will also add Joure as a location on the trail - with 1 resource point - and 0 airfield values.

h) It appears that Dobradura is in the wrong hex and is so close to Buna that it should be combined with it.

i) It appears that the Uncommon Valor coding - with a track to Wau up the backside of the Owen Stanley range from Port Moresby - may be correct - and our WITP maps are wrong.

j) The trail East from PM is wrong. It goes NE instead.

IF you seek historical accuracy - and IF our trails / roads etc are meant to facilitate historical simulation of campaigns - they need to be where they were really used.

[el cid again]

Investigating further I find there was a wartime project called the Bulldog Track to make a route to Wau. Apparently this is on some maps. But when the war began there was indeed no land connection in the sense we care about as a LOC (a party seems to have been able to move - but not on a trail).

So we won't do the backside track to Wau after all.

[JeffroK]

To get to Wau
 
From PM to the mouth of the Lakekamu River, 150 miles or 12-15 days by foot, 24 hours by Lugger/Schooner.
 
2-4 days upsteam by Canoe to Bulldog
 
Bulldog to Wau was 34 walking hours, 4-5 days walk.
 
It was easier to fly in.
 
From the Australian Official Histories - SWPA - First Year - Kokoda to Wau
http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/21/chapters/02.pdf

[JeffroK]

A thread on Indochina got hijacked in extended debate about the Kokoda trail (note the spelling - which I at least had wrong)

I came under (politely) intense criticism for maintaining that the Kokoda trail was properly represented in all versions of WITP and should not be removed altogether. It was said that the Kappa Kappa Trail was significant as well - and that since it isn't on the map we can safely remove the Kokoda Trail.It was also said there was an airfield at Kokoda - and that was of logistic significance.

I reviewed the official US Army History (Victory in Papua) and conclude several points:
Sid, as a partly trained Historian you would understand the need for reviewing a number of sources.

a) The Kokoda Trail was a PRE EXISTING ROAD at the western end - called the "Kokoda Road" - and for that reason the Uncommon Valor coding is correct: Port Moresby art and pwhex should show ROAD vice trail.
A hex is 60 miles across, say PM is in the middle. Iorabaiwa iRidge is 30 miles form PM, most definatly past the end of any "road"

b) The Kokoda Trail (formally the Kokoda Track) BEGINS about the end of the Port Moresby hex - and it is properly shown on all WITP maps - and it stays.
Above

c) There WAS a PRE EXISTING AIRFIELD at Kokoda - Level 1 - and it is such an awful site the base value should be 0 - something almost never done in RHS. This is potentially significant in the game - and was IRL - particularly if improved.
Can you land supplys at a level 0, if you can this would be correct. The limit to Supply drops would be the low numbers of Transport aircraft at this time.

d) Kokoda was an economically significant point - or no one would maintain in peacetime a road/trail over such conditions to reach it. For that reason - in addition to being an airfield - Kokoda needs to be a location with a single resource point (the minimum value possible in our system).
Kokoda was a small village with a small Rubber plantation, it was strategically important as being at the start of the mountainous track to Deneki/Isuarava/PM

e) The Australian 7th Division - including 2 Aussie brigades and 1 US RCT - indeed used the Kokoda Trail for their offensive re Buna.
NO US ARMY TROOPS crossed the Kokoda Track.(Maybe very,very,very small units) Apart from II/126 they flew into small airfields within 30-40 miles of Buna!!!!

f) The Aussies did indeed put a force across the trail before the Japanese offensive began - a native battalion and a company were in place when the Japanese landed at Kokoda and points East of it - and the rest of the white battalion was ordered to back them up.

g) The Kappa Kappa trail was indeed about as significant as the Kokoda Trail - except that the economically significant points (Kappa Kappa and Joure) on it are not pre existing airfields. We will add this trail as well - the first part is already there - the trail to the SE of PM - and from there it goes NE to Buna. The K trail will be in the next hex north. WE will also add Joure as a location on the trail - with 1 resource point - and 0 airfield values.
In what way where Jaure & Kappa Kappa of economic significance? Plus the trail to Jaure was as bad, if not worse than the kokoda Track which forced Harding to demand that his troops be flown in.


h) It appears that Dobradura is in the wrong hex and is so close to Buna that it should be combined with it.
Yep, the hex would cover Gona/Buna/Dobodura & Popendetta

i) It appears that the Uncommon Valor coding - with a track to Wau up the backside of the Owen Stanley range from Port Moresby - may be correct - and our WITP maps are wrong.
As you point out in the next post, UV is wrong.

j) The trail East from PM is wrong. It goes NE instead.
 
The map is twisted, ist this a problem??

IF you seek historical accuracy - and IF our trails / roads etc are meant to facilitate historical simulation of campaigns - they need to be where they were really used.
 
Sid, IF you seek historical accuracy you should broaden your reference base, and seek other informed opinions before you make your broad statements.
My concern, my agenda, is that there are many on this forum who have little detailed knowledge of this theatre, and being mislead by insufficient research on such matters doesnt teach them anything.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Investigating further I find there was a wartime project called the Bulldog Track to make a route to Wau. Apparently this is on some maps. But when the war began there was indeed no land connection in the sense we care about as a LOC (a party seems to have been able to move - but not on a trail).

So we won't do the backside track to Wau after all.

Bulldog was an airfield about 40 crow miles south of Wau. It was used as a supply base for Airlifted supplies as Wau was under attck at times. In 1943 a road was started along the Eloa River valley, crossing "gaps" at 8,000 and 9,500 ft. It was 58 miles long and the highest point reach was 9,847ft

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

A thread on Indochina got hijacked in extended debate about the Kokoda trail (note the spelling - which I at least had wrong)

I came under (politely) intense criticism for maintaining that the Kokoda trail was properly represented in all versions of WITP and should not be removed altogether. It was said that the Kappa Kappa Trail was significant as well - and that since it isn't on the map we can safely remove the Kokoda Trail.It was also said there was an airfield at Kokoda - and that was of logistic significance.

I reviewed the official US Army History (Victory in Papua) and conclude several points:
Sid, as a partly trained Historian you would understand the need for reviewing a number of sources.

REPLY: I am working on a self imposed deadline - and I have put off completion for months. I do not have time to do exhaustive research on a minor point. I have personally walked the Kokoda Trail, I have regularly studied the campaign, and I only reviewed this source, and examined a couple of dozen maps (I have about a thousand on hand),
as a refresher. I found my memory was correct in most respects - but there were things I had either forgotten or never knew. We could spend years just on the terrain of New Guinea - but I have thousands to manage. The matter came up - and I reviewed to insure I was fair - not to be exhaustive in some scholarly sense.

a) The Kokoda Trail was a PRE EXISTING ROAD at the western end - called the "Kokoda Road" - and for that reason the Uncommon Valor coding is correct: Port Moresby art and pwhex should show ROAD vice trail.
A hex is 60 miles across, say PM is in the middle. Iorabaiwa iRidge is 30 miles form PM, most definatly past the end of any "road"

REPLY: We must compromise. There is a road system near PM. We cannot use a different scale (which I advocated up front - and still advocate). The book lists the location of the end of the road - and unless I am confused - it is well beyond the ridge. It says the "Track" begins at that point.

b) The Kokoda Trail (formally the Kokoda Track) BEGINS about the end of the Port Moresby hex - and it is properly shown on all WITP maps - and it stays.
Above

c) There WAS a PRE EXISTING AIRFIELD at Kokoda - Level 1 - and it is such an awful site the base value should be 0 - something almost never done in RHS. This is potentially significant in the game - and was IRL - particularly if improved.
Can you land supplys at a level 0, if you can this would be correct. The limit to Supply drops would be the low numbers of Transport aircraft at this time.

REPLY: You would suffer awful attrition to your aircraft - the extent depending on the plane. Smaller planes would not suffer as badly. That is roughly correct. But IRL only very light planes could get in. Here we are at the mercy of code. But a Level 1 airfield is pretty awful - and will not permit any attacks - not too bad.

d) Kokoda was an economically significant point - or no one would maintain in peacetime a road/trail over such conditions to reach it. For that reason - in addition to being an airfield - Kokoda needs to be a location with a single resource point (the minimum value possible in our system).
Kokoda was a small village with a small Rubber plantation, it was strategically important as being at the start of the mountainous track to Deneki/Isuarava/PM

REPLY: I see. So I need to change resources to oil. In RHS (and also in CHS) rubber is represented by small amounts of oil. It means "different resources". Since synthetic rubber is made from oil, it isn't too bad.

e) The Australian 7th Division - including 2 Aussie brigades and 1 US RCT - indeed used the Kokoda Trail for their offensive re Buna.
NO US ARMY TROOPS crossed the Kokoda Track.(Maybe very,very,very small units) Apart from II/126 they flew into small airfields within 30-40 miles of Buna!!!!

REPLY: Not for the assault on Kokoda they didn't. There appear to have been airfields SE of Buna on plantations - at least one - as well as one at Kokoda itself. But that was later. UNTIL the area was secured - they could not use the fields. Kokoda and points west were enemy held - and they were taken by force.

f[/color]
j) The trail East from PM is wrong. It goes NE instead.

The map is twisted, ist this a problem??

REPLY: Always. We can get it pretty right however - this area is not too far from the center - not too distorted.
The trails work out pretty well considering the awful scale.

IF you seek historical accuracy - and IF our trails / roads etc are meant to facilitate historical simulation of campaigns - they need to be where they were really used.

Sid, IF you seek historical accuracy you should broaden your reference base, and seek other informed opinions before you make your broad statements.

REPLY: I have a project to bring in. I am very familiar with this area - possibly more so than anyone posting is - since I have been there - and I have studied the campaigns longer than most posters have been alive. I was only attempting to refresh my memory - and I didn't find a lot wrong with it either. Posters who feel the Kokoda Track was not able to support logistics sufficient for attacks more or less take the view Mac did - and are as incorrect as he turned out to be. The clear use of the trail by units of both sides means I should not have reviewed it at all - I was just bending over backwards. It cost me a day - and that is more than I should have spent on such a clear matter. On the other hand, I was able to create a better simulation of the area. If I went with the terrain as it really was instead as as the critics suggested - it was not because I was unwilling to go the other way. The facts caused me to expand the trail system and add the Kokoda airfield - for which I regard my self in the debt of the critics. I never knew or forgot there was such a field.

My concern, my agenda, is that there are many on this forum who have little detailed knowledge of this theatre, and being mislead by insufficient research on such matters doesnt teach them anything.

If you want to see insifficient research and detail, go to stock maps. But if you get out a microscope, you will find thousands - nay tens of thousands of flaws in CHS and RHS. If you think there is unilimited time to do research and art and pwhex coding, please do it for us, and submit the complete, accurete product - and since I need to issue my stuff today - is six hours too soon? If not, what about tomorrow? The problem is that you need years to do everything right in the sense I just have done the trails near PM (assuming they are "right" at all). They are "better" - as close as can be for the scale IMHO - but nevertheless still probably subject to improvement with more research.
I ended up doing the trail NW but NOT going on to Wau. Putting in a location up there we have a system that will permit horribly inefficient cross country movement to Wau - but no actual LOC. A unit in between will feed supplies (slightly) - but a unit at Wau will get none from PM. Unless you fly. As it should be.