BETA AHS French Varaint

[akdreemer]

Greetings all.. I am announcing the final BETA version of my Alternative History Scenario : French Variant.
can be found at: www.ahs.akdreemer.com
Below are the highlights of the mod:

Alternative History Scenario – French Variant

Uses a modified Enhanced Map initially designed by Andrew Brown
Modifications, as a rule, reflect changes from CHS/Stock

ALL
- Political points close to stock
- Pilot training rates and reserves close to stock
- Aircraft are stock maneuverability and durability
- No more Aden, Karachi is now back as major arrival base. House rule: Karachi can only be land assaulted only if all cities in India have been conquered.
- Panama is now relegated to just a supply point. Only base units and forts remain. House rule: No attacks allowed.
- Historically derived units
- Naval units have faster cruising speeds combined with less endurance using historical documented data
- Devices likewise modified to reflect historical data

Japanese:
- 2x B-65 Japanese BC’s (one at start, three more by 12/42)
- 2x Ibuki Class CL’s, basically copies of the original Mogami’s but with 6.1” guns and 3.9”/60 AA guns (both in 1942)
- 3x C-44 CL’s, Agano class with one more turret and an additional centerline TT (all three arrive late war)
- Yamato class cancelled
- 2x Shokaku class CVs early game
- 1x Taiho calss CVs
- 2x Imp Taiho class CVs
- 16x Shimakaze class Class DDs
- 8x Yagumo calss DDs
- Revised Japanese OOB courtesy of RHS.
- Tweaked resources and industry
- Ki44IIb is the standard Army air force fighter in early game
- G9M1 arrives mid 1942

Allied:
USA
- All historical major combat ship and auxiliaries
- Large AV’s (Tangier, Curtiss, Langley) and Kittyhawk AKV are now CS, but have no organic floatplanes attached.
- Mustang/A-36 never developed
- LB-30 eliminated
- Several Infantry regiments combined into Brigades, a new unit that is composed of two infantry Rgts, one Combat engineer BN, and two artillery BN’s.
- Several AA regiments have been combined into AA Brigades. These are located at West Coast and Hawaii and are intended for homeland defense.
- USS Ranger replaces Wasp
- More bases in North Pacific region
- P-38 production ramped up earlier
- F7F Tigercat production starts in mid 43
- AM-1 Mauler late war

France:
- BB Jean Bart
- 2x Dunkerque class BCs
- CA’s, CLs, DD’s and lesser warships
- CV Bearn
- CV Joffre, completed in US yards and available early 1942.
- Three sub classes
- French AMC, cargo, passenger ships and tankers with their own artwork.
- Aircraft D.520 and derivatives (D.530, D.550), MS410 (MS406 with different engine), DB7-3A (French Havoc), M-167 (French Maryland), Potez 631 (Fighter/bomber)
- Five divisions including French du Tonkin Division in China. Many regiment and smaller LCU’s
- Fighter and bomber units.
- Fighters include D.520, MS410, and Curtiss H75A4 (hawks with slightly more powerful engines and 6 mgs.
- Bombers include Martin 167, Douglas DB7 A3, Potez 631, and LN 411
- Seaplanes include Loire 130 and L.298

Dutch:
- Fokker G1-B fighter bomber
- Updated OOB and coast defence

India
- Added additional engineering in the form of RR engineer units
- Added Indian Territorial Divisions. House rules: cannot move IT Divisions from startup location until an Indian city is captured.
- Weak 2nd Burma division replaced two Indian Burma brigades
- Additional LCU.
- Four types of divisions: Light, Assault, Motorized and two Jungle divisional types.
- Indian airforce units

Australia:
- Additional militia Divisions to arrive by mid 43.
- Militia Divisions structured as jungle divisions.
- Independent Militia BN’s added (Inf, MG, support)
- Melbourne a location that British naval units can with draw, replacing Bombay.
- Many new bases
- Australian Civilian Construction Corp engineer units

New Zealand:
- Three home defense divisions and coast defence revised as well additional home defence units.
- Fiji Commando Companies

British:
- Two British Burma regiments now a weak 1st Burma Div.
- No CW units (replaced by French)
- No 18th Division

Soviets:
- Should be played active.
- Greatly expanded and revised LCU’s.

China:
- Increased numbers of LCU’s in which most are static.

Possible cahnges yet to be done:
- Revise Chinese AF
- Revise Soviet AF
- Add more French leaders and pilots

[JeffroK]

AW,
 
Sounds interesting.
 
A point which I was going to bring up, in really slowly answering to AB's q about air bases in OZ, is that a majority of bases were built with Civilian labour, the local main roads depts doing a lot of the work. Air Force/Army engineers onoy did the finishing touches. Your addition of Australian Civilian Construction Corp engineer units would show this without increasing combat units.
 
Re your use of Brigades for the US Army, why notkeep the square establishment, bigger but fewer Divisions.
 
Having the Japanese fight for FIC would be interesting, makes Malaya & Burma a much nicer place to live.[8D]

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: JeffK


Re your use of Brigades for the US Army, why notkeep the square establishment, bigger but fewer Divisions.

These brigades (most just HQ's) were leftovers from the reorginazation of the pre-war square division, and at least one historically was sent to the Pacific - 51st Brigade which eventually became the Americal Division. This allowed me to use the Brigade as a way to free up slots by combining independent regiments. I decided the the Square Division was way to large and unwieldy.

Having the Japanese fight for FIC would be interesting, makes Malaya & Burma a much nicer place to live.[8D]

True, but the scenario is predicated upon FIC was occupied by the Japanese before Dec 7th. However, this would indeed make an interesting varant if FIC was held in any strength.

[JeffroK]

aHHH,
 
I thought the French would be based in FIC.
 
My bad....

[el cid again]

If you managed (in a hypothetical world) to cancel the Yamatos, I bet you had to delete about 80% of the senior officers from your IJN list - right? In a country with "government by assassination" - with a navy dominated by battleship admirals - who managed to get no less than 4 of them laid down (a 5th authorized and 2 more expanded versions projected) - to get rid of them BEFORE battle showed the power of airplanes would no doubt mean they had been killed in the revolution.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

If you managed (in a hypothetical world) to cancel the Yamatos, I bet you had to delete about 80% of the senior officers from your IJN list - right? In a country with "government by assassination" - with a navy dominated by battleship admirals - who managed to get no less than 4 of them laid down (a 5th authorized and 2 more expanded versions projected) - to get rid of them BEFORE battle showed the power of airplanes would no doubt mean they had been killed in the revolution.

Or he simply wants to design his scenario his way..

[DuckofTindalos]

Now you know that's not possible in el cid's world. It's either his way or no way...

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: treespider


Or he simply wants to design his scenario his way..

Can't be that. Its all very complicated.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: treespider


Or he simply wants to design his scenario his way..

Can't be that. Its all very complicated.

I think what we are all witnessing here is Cid's attempt at humor...[&:]

[DuckofTindalos]

Unlikely... Humour is not complicated enough, and it doesn't have enough credible sources of data...

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Unlikely... Humour is not complicated enough, and it doesn't have enough credible sources of data...

Maybe the intent behind Cid's post wasn't to be funny in and of itself. By making the post he caused Forrest to respond in a mildly funny yet subtley irreverent and defensive retort on behalf of AK. In turn, using your spammer's 6th sense you were drawn to this thread by the distinct odor of opportunity to rib El Cid, spawning a slightly funnier post. Then Nik, the King Vulture of opportunistic Spam and a funny guy by all rights, dog piled on the original funny made by Forrest which in a complex chain reaction sparked my previous post in daft, mocking aid of Cid.

...And thus humor was generated.

Is that complicated enough for you?

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Unlikely... Humour is not complicated enough, and it doesn't have enough credible sources of data...

Maybe the intent behind Cid's post wasn't to be funny in and of itself. By making the post he caused Forrest to respond in a mildly funny yet subtley irreverent and defensive retort on behalf of AK. In turn, using your spammer's 6th sense you were drawn to this thread by the distinct odor of opportunity to rib El Cid, spawning a slightly funnier post. Then Nik, the King Vulture of opportunistic Spam and a funny guy by all rights, dog piled on the original funny made by Forrest which in a complex chain reaction sparked my previous post in daft, mocking aid of Cid.

...And thus humor was generated.

Is that complicated enough for you?

Not quite ...you failed to include the obtuse anecdote to some personal experience you've had that relates to a matter that is not being debated and is in no way related to the original topic.

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Unlikely... Humour is not complicated enough, and it doesn't have enough credible sources of data...

Maybe the intent behind Cid's post wasn't to be funny in and of itself. By making the post he caused Forrest to respond in a mildly funny yet subtley irreverent and defensive retort on behalf of AK. In turn, using your spammer's 6th sense you were drawn to this thread by the distinct odor of opportunity to rib El Cid, spawning a slightly funnier post. Then Nik, the King Vulture of opportunistic Spam and a funny guy by all rights, dog piled on the original funny made by Forrest which in a complex chain reaction sparked my previous post in daft, mocking aid of Cid.

...And thus humor was generated.

Is that complicated enough for you?

It's getting there, but not quite...[:'(]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Unlikely... Humour is not complicated enough, and it doesn't have enough credible sources of data...

Maybe the intent behind Cid's post wasn't to be funny in and of itself. By making the post he caused Forrest to respond in a mildly funny yet subtley irreverent and defensive retort on behalf of AK. In turn, using your spammer's 6th sense you were drawn to this thread by the distinct odor of opportunity to rib El Cid, spawning a slightly funnier post. Then Nik, the King Vulture of opportunistic Spam and a funny guy by all rights, dog piled on the original funny made by Forrest which in a complex chain reaction sparked my previous post in daft, mocking aid of Cid.

...And thus humor was generated.

Is that complicated enough for you?

It's getting there, but not quite...[:'(]

You obviously didn't read my explanation...

[el cid again]

I actually was attempting to say - in a semi-humorous way - that I don't think there was any possibility of convincing the powers that be in pre war IJN not to build the Yamato's. Given the view of Adm Yamamoto on the matter - and the high regard he had in that institution - it is certainly true there was at least one significant opponent of them - an advocate of carriers (if not battlecruisers). Yamamoto said - regarding the second ship of the series - approximately (in English):

"There are three great follies in history:

the Great Wall of China;

the pyramids of Egypt;

and the Battleship Musashi."


It appears he meant that, by that time, it was already clear battleships were obsolete (possibly referring to events outside of Asia). But his view fell on deaf ears in IJN. ALL the battleships remained under construction - including number 4 - until after the results of the Pearl Harbor attack were in.

Because an air minded IJN would be much more capable I would love to rationalize one. In a sense, I have done so with EOS. But the idea one could kill even the first two Yamatos is beyond my ability to imagine.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I actually was attempting to say - in a semi-humorous way - that I don't think there was any possibility of convincing the powers that be in pre war IJN not to build the Yamato's. Given the view of Adm Yamamoto on the matter - and the high regard he had in that institution - it is certainly true there was at least one significant opponent of them - and advocate of carriers (if not battlecruisers). Yamamoto said - regarding the second ship of the series - approximately (in English):

"There are three great follies in history:

the Great Wall of China;

the pyramids of Egypt;

and the Battleship Musashi."


It appears he meant that, by that time, it was already clear battleships were obsolete (possibly referring to events outside of Asia). But his view fell on deaf ears in IJN. ALL the battleships remained under construction - including number 4 - until after the results of the Pearl Harbor attack were in.

Because an air minded IJN would be much more capable I would love to rationalize one. In a sense, I have done so with EOS. But the idea one could kill even the first two Yamatos is beyond my ability to imagine.

I agree. Even after the Taranto raid, Pearl Harbor and the sinking of Force Z on March 1, 1942 Ugaki writes in his diary -

"In vast ocean areas land-based air forces can be employed only on a limited scale, and I doubt that carriersalone can provide adequate air power for aggressive action. Fukudome told me that he had postponed the decision advocated by Shimada to halt construction of Musashi. It is generally considered that the battleship is a worthy instrument of service, and until there are other means for nullifying the enemy's battleships, our own battleship strength must be maintained."

So you could consider that AlaskanWarrior has decided that Ugaki and others were shown that there are "other means".

[el cid again]

That is possible: IJN had a number of these ideas - few of which worked out - but on which great resources and effort was expended. One is the idea of a "second line carrier force" based on seaplane carriers - the most sophisticated in the world. Another was the idea of midget submarines launched in numbers at full speed by a carrier ship during a surface naval battle. If some of these ideas became even more exaggerated than they were IRL - it is possible the institution would rationalize "we don't need the battleships after all" - and the great cost in steel alone (in terms of what else you can build with it) would justify the decision - even if the "other means" ideas were dead wrong (or mostly wrong).

[akdreemer]

The greater part of the allure of being able to design your own modificatations/scenarios in a histocial conflict focused simulation is the ability to explore 'what if's'. We can choose to call this alternative history, and is should be considered fiction. However, most of what is presented is based upon solid historical underpinnings and its legitimacy is derived from the audience it was intended for. I would even venture to state that the entire genre of historical simulation games are fiction driven ase all seek to on some level to investigate 'what if'.